Gone Zero Carb.

[ic3j]

I wouldn't stretch it so far. Im pretty sure that what you eat has an impact on your health. But, it is not the only thing that affects health and well being. Like you said, stress is a big factor. Chronic stress has been proven to cause loss of memory, elevated blood pressure, elevated blood cortisol levels etc. Many things are different in modern world compared to primitive.

I totally agree. What you eat certainly has an impact. Everyone should be eating healthy and exercise on a regular basis. Fact is that most of us westerns are to lazy to do it. My point is exactly that there are so many differences that you can't just simply point at one of them and safely say that one is causing all the trouble. It's food, excercise, stress, drugs, pollution, medications, hormones, genetics and a lot of other reasons. Not eating vegetables and fruits is not the sollution to all misery. Besides that, we wouldn't even exist anymore if we all acted like carnivores. It's a simple calculation of energy use.

 

[anaconda]

I totally agree. What you eat certainly has an impact. Everyone should be eating healthy and exercise on a regular basis. Fact is that most of us westerns are to lazy to do it. My point is exactly that there are so many differences that you can't just simply point at one of them and safely say that one is causing all the trouble. It's food, excercise, stress, drugs, pollution, medications, hormones, genetics and a lot of other reasons. Not eating vegetables and fruits is not the sollution to all misery. Besides that, we wouldn't even exist anymore if we all acted like carnivores. It's a simple calculation of energy use.

so what do you think the ideal diet is?

 

[Gun Fu]

I totally agree. What you eat certainly has an impact. Everyone should be eating healthy and exercise on a regular basis. Fact is that most of us westerns are to lazy to do it. My point is exactly that there are so many differences that you can't just simply point at one of them and safely say that one is causing all the trouble. It's food, excercise, stress, drugs, pollution, medications, hormones, genetics and a lot of other reasons. Not eating vegetables and fruits is not the sollution to all misery. Besides that, we wouldn't even exist anymore if we all acted like carnivores. It's a simple calculation of energy use.

LOL lemme guess your definition of eating healthy... A low fat, low cholesterol, low saturated-fat, high poly-unsaturated fat, high carb plan filled with things in accordance with the terrible USDA food pyramid? I'm not even trying to advocate carnivorous diets, I'm more of a paleolithic diet kinda guy but I was just pointing out the facts on the primitive civilizations and their diets. As for all the evidence you want, read the book called "Good Calories, Bad Calories" by Gary Taubes, it opens eyes to the truth.

 

[arctic82]

Gun fu, you really can gather all that from ic's post? Im thinking he may not be the one with the bias.

Anaconda, optimal diet is the kind of diet that is sustainable, offers adequate protein quality and quantity,
promotes good health with adequate fat and micronutrient intake. Gives enough energy to promote good performance and active lifestyle.
Constitutes from high quality food sources versus low quality (nutritionally empty or poorly digestible sources).

 

[anaconda]

Gun fu, you really can gather all that from ic's post? Im thinking he may not be the one with the bias.

Anaconda, optimal diet is the kind of diet that is sustainable, offers adequate protein quality and quantity,
promotes good health with adequate fat and micronutrient intake. Gives enough energy to promote good performance and active lifestyle.
Constitutes from high quality food sources versus low quality (nutritionally empty or poorly digestible sources).

i agree with you, but i was curious as to what ic3j's thoughts were? since he is so ready to dismiss this as wrong, i was just wondering what he thought was the right way?

 

[ic3j]

I think there isn't an ideal diet that suits everyone, everyone is different and so are most goals.

I am just pretty sure that a carnivore diet doesn't prevent all the horrible deceases like Gun Fu and the TS say it does. One of the thousands of reasons to think this is because carnivores can get the same deceases as we all get. Second of all there is no scientific proof for this whatsoever.

As for vegetables and fruits. If they are causing all kinds of deceases (and that's basically what Gun Fu and the TS are saying) herbivores should have been the source of all deceases, but they are not. As a matter of fact. It's a scientific fact that A LOT of fruits and vegetables reduce the risk of deceases like cancer. It's proven multiple times by not only companies that benefit from it, but also important scientific research center's, professors, doctors, universities, etc.

But if Gun Fu is so convinced about this diet he should cancel his health insurance. Who needs a doctor anyway when you can solve any illness with a basket of hamburgers. Next time when i catch a cold because i ate an orange, i'll try it out.

 

[anaconda]

I think there isn't an ideal diet that suits everyone, everyone is different and so are most goals.

I am just pretty sure that a carnivore diet doesn't prevent all the horrible deceases like Gun Fu and the TS say it does. One of the thousands of reasons to think this is because carnivores can get the same deceases as we all get. Second of all there is no scientific proof for this whatsoever.

As for vegetables and fruits. If they are causing all kinds of deceases (and that's basically what Gun Fu and the TS are saying) herbivores should have been the source of all deceases, but they are not. As a matter of fact. It's a scientific fact that A LOT of fruits and vegetables reduce the risk of deceases like cancer. It's proven multiple times by not only companies that benefit from it, but also important scientific research center's, professors, doctors, universities, etc.

But if Gun Fu is so convinced about this diet he should cancel his health insurance. Who needs a doctor anyway when you can solve any illness with a basket of hamburgers. Next time when i catch a cold because i ate an orange, i'll try it out.

well first of all, you didint answer the question.

second of all, its "diseases," not deceases - unless you were trying to pun.

but as for your main point - so your argument is that because its not proven it doesnt work? no proof and proof of not working are not the same thing.

I agree with you that I don't think fruits and vegetables are the harbingers of death. but your argument is totally lacking. its all based on what you think and assume. 20 years ago science "proved" that a high carb, low fat moderate protein diet was the best way to go. Thats undeniably wrong.

The first thing you wrote in your post was "I think there isn't an ideal diet that suits everyone, everyone is different and so are most goals."

So my point is how can you be so quick to dismiss something without any proof of why you are doing it? Maybe there are factors here which we dont understand yet?

Read through the other long 0 carb thread (linked earlier) and try to understand this more. I'm not trying to convince you its good, because I don't think its the best way to eat. Even if it was, I dont think its realistic for most people. But at least open your mind a little.

 

[anaconda]

btw TS any updates on how this is going for you?

 

[Gun Fu]

I think there isn't an ideal diet that suits everyone, everyone is different and so are most goals.

I am just pretty sure that a carnivore diet doesn't prevent all the horrible deceases like Gun Fu and the TS say it does. One of the thousands of reasons to think this is because carnivores can get the same deceases as we all get. Second of all there is no scientific proof for this whatsoever.

As for vegetables and fruits. If they are causing all kinds of deceases (and that's basically what Gun Fu and the TS are saying) herbivores should have been the source of all deceases, but they are not. As a matter of fact. It's a scientific fact that A LOT of fruits and vegetables reduce the risk of deceases like cancer. It's proven multiple times by not only companies that benefit from it, but also important scientific research center's, professors, doctors, universities, etc.

But if Gun Fu is so convinced about this diet he should cancel his health insurance. Who needs a doctor anyway when you can solve any illness with a basket of hamburgers. Next time when i catch a cold because i ate an orange, i'll try it out.

Terrible critical reading skills. As I mentioned, I'm not on this carnivorous diet. I'm on a paleolithic one which does include amounts of fruits and vegetables. In addition, chronic diseases are probably caused by the western inventions of refined carbohydrates and processed sugars and their introduction to the diet. None of the primitive peoples got chronic things such as heart disease, diabetes, obesity and such before they were introduced to a western diet filled with refined carbs and processed easily digestible sugars. Even worse, the government started advocating a low fat, low cholesterol, high fiber, low saturated fat, high poly-unsaturated fat, high carb diet for everyone. It seems to what you exemplify. Un-biased research has clearly shown how wrong that way of thinking is.

 

[ic3j]

well first of all, you didint answer the question.

All I am saying is that you can't say this diet prevents cancer, gonorrhea and other diseases. I am no diet expert, i simply don't mix facts up with fairytales.

second of all, its "diseases," not deceases - unless you were trying to pun.

No my English sucks, it's one of a few foreign languages we'd have to learn and it happens to be my worst.

but as for your main point - so your argument is that because its not proven it doesnt work? no proof and proof of not working are not the same thing.

Now you're reversing the story. I am simply saying the the quote i made a couple of posts back is complete bullshit. The TS brings it as a fact that this particular diet prevents all diseases because the inventor of the diet (or whoever) just guesses this diet is the difference between us and the ubermensch that are never getting sick. It's absolutely complete nonsens. There are a zillion differences between us and them and besides the simple fact that they are getting sick. Maybe not as often as "we" do but besides diet it's scientifically proven that not exercising, pollution, the chemicals we eat and breath all day long, smoking, drinking, stress and a few hundreds of other reasons have an influence as well. My point is that you can't nullefy all of them and just point at this diet.

I agree with you that I don't think fruits and vegetables are the harbingers of death.

So this basically means we're not discussing anything..

but your argument is totally lacking. its all based on what you think and assume. 20 years ago science "proved" that a high carb, low fat moderate protein diet was the best way to go. Thats undeniably wrong.

Yes, but I am not talking about fat, carbs or protein. I am talking about the fact that meat doesn't prevent anything. It's a fact. Just like the earth is round.

The first thing you wrote in your post was "I think there isn't an ideal diet that suits everyone, everyone is different and so are most goals."

So my point is how can you be so quick to dismiss something without any proof of why you are doing it? Maybe there are factors here which we dont understand yet?

I don't have a problem with this diet as a diet. I simply don't buy that this diet prevents all kinds of diseases because of no reason other than the TS guessing some tribals don't get ill. Why not? Because of the simple fact that there are thousands of researchers stuyding these subjects for decades, who often studied for over 10 years at the best universities world wide. So basically it's a scale. On one hand a combined gazillion of research hours and on the other hand a guy on the internet that makes a guess.

Read through the other long 0 carb thread (linked earlier) and try to understand this more. I'm not trying to convince you its good, because I don't think its the best way to eat. Even if it was, I dont think its realistic for most people. But at least open your mind a little.

I bet this diet works fine for people who work on theire muscles. That's not my point at all. It's the diseases part that bothers me.

 

[ic3j]

Terrible critical reading skills. As I mentioned, I'm not on this carnivorous diet. I'm on a paleolithic one which does include amounts of fruits and vegetables. In addition, chronic diseases are probably caused by the western inventions of refined carbohydrates and processed sugars and their introduction to the diet. None of the primitive peoples got chronic things such as heart disease, diabetes, obesity and such before they were introduced to a western diet filled with refined carbs and processed easily digestible sugars. Even worse, the government started advocating a low fat, low cholesterol, high fiber, low saturated fat, high poly-unsaturated fat, high carb diet for everyone. It seems to what you exemplify. Un-biased research has clearly shown how wrong that way of thinking is.

What you say is not the same as:

-Cultures that eat all meat diets have very near no incidence of: diabetes, tooth decay, heart disease, cancer, alzheimers, obesity, and other common diseases. This is regardless of their avg. amount of physical activity.

Let's say

person A
- Follows this meat diet, perhaps eating nothing but fat meats. 10.000 calories a day or more.
- Using 2000 calories a day because he's a lazy fuck.
- Has multiple cases of one of the above diseases within the family.
- Doesn't exercise at all.
- Smokes, drinks, perhaps even using drugs.
- Doesn't come outside much, doesn't see a lot of sun and doesn't breath fresh air.
- Lives in a big city. Breaths in polluted air from cars, factories, etc. like anyone else in the big city.
- Doesn't slaugther the animals himself but like most other get's the meat full of grow hormones and stuff from the supermarket.
- etc.

Person B
- Has a "normal" diet 2500-3000 kcal a day.
- Uses 2500-3000 kcal a day.
- Has no relatives with any of the above diseases.
- Has an active job + sports a lot.
- Doesn't smoke, drink or has any other bad habit.
- Is outside a lot and lives in a "green" environment.

Both of them can get a lot of diseases. Perhaps person A get's 100 years old and B dies young, it's all possible. But you have to admit that person A has a bigger chance of getting for example cancer, a heart disease or obesitas. Why because for all of them count that they can be caused by many factors.

 

[anaconda]

ok, i understand better now...i see where you are coming from, i think its just the way you came off that made people so confrontational with you.

certainly there are plenty of factors which affect the rate of disease in different cultures. But there is plenty of research (you could find a lot of it probably linked on this forum) that suggests that a western type diet high in refined carbohydrates IS responsible for a tone of disease. that is undeniable. you should read some books about low carb lifestyles to learn more.

but like you i cant see how having no vegetables and fruits is healthier than eating them. i cant see how something which is essentially water, fiber and nutrients can be bad for you.

again - read through the older thread on this same subject and you can get some ideas for the research and background about it. it will also give you the reasons why the diet claims to do what it does.

 

[ic3j]

ok, i understand better now...i see where you are coming from, i think its just the way you came off that made people so confrontational with you.

certainly there are plenty of factors which affect the rate of disease in different cultures. But there is plenty of research (you could find a lot of it probably linked on this forum) that suggests that a western type diet high in refined carbohydrates IS responsible for a tone of disease. that is undeniable. you should read some books about low carb lifestyles to learn more.

but like you i cant see how having no vegetables and fruits is healthier than eating them. i cant see how something which is essentially water, fiber and nutrients can be bad for you.

again - read through the older thread on this same subject and you can get some ideas for the research and background about it. it will also give you the reasons why the diet claims to do what it does.

You're right. But if i get LOL-ed and sweared at i guess i get confrontational.

 

[turbozed]

Found an interesting blog of a guy who just spent 6 weeks on this diet. He has a food log up and everything. Pretty interesting:

Curiousfarmer

Check it out: He's really detailed with his observations. It's a good read.

 

[anaconda]

Found an interesting blog of a guy who just spent 6 weeks on this diet. He has a food log up and everything. Pretty interesting:

Curiousfarmer

Check it out: He's really detailed with his observations. It's a good read.

Nice find...I'm really interested in the results of his bloodwork.

 

[Mathias]

Charles Washington has been on a strict grain-fed meat and water diet for almost two years. I believe he lost close to 80 lbs. Not bad for a 40 year old. He's a half-marathon runner and has a nice blog...

Zeroing In On Health - The Blog!

 

[anaconda]

Charles Washington has been on a strict grain-fed meat and water diet for almost two years. I believe he lost close to 80 lbs. Not bad for a 40 year old. He's a half-marathon runner and has a nice blog...

Zeroing In On Health - The Blog!

Damn, he looks really unhealthy!

 

[Higher Learning]

Damn, he looks really unhealthy!

i don't know how fat fucks like that can even post pictures of themselves

 

[turbozed]

Nice find...I'm really interested in the results of his bloodwork.

His bloodwork is in:

I want an open-casket wake because as Billy Crystal used to say,

 

[Mathias]

Even LDL Cholesterol as the 'bad cholesterol' is highly questionable...

http://www.jpands.org/vol10no3/colpo.pdf


Excessive blood insulin levels seem to be the real culprit of diabetes, heart disease, etc.