For people who think Merab can beat Umar

[TheMMAnalyst]

GSP was 100% a better striker than Serra.
O'Malley was a better striker than Merab.
Silva was a better striker than Weidman.

Anything can happen when the octagon door closes. Umar's beaten Sandhagen and Merab holds wins over 4 UFC champs. It is a tough fight for both guys, and I am looking forward to it. I am just not quick to dismiss Merab's chances because Umar's last name is Nurmagomedov.

I’m just talking about skill sets, obviously fighting has so many intangibles that sometimes that doesn’t determine the outcome.

Merab is proven and you can’t dismiss his chances, but if we objectively look at technical skills Umar has better striking and grappling, the wrestling might be even. From a stylistic standpoint it clearly favors Umar, that’s why he’s a 3-1 favorite, it’s not just Nurmagamedov fanboyism.

It’s still a fight though, technique only means so much when you get punched in the face.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

I was talking about the context of an overall grappling game, which includes takedowns, submissions and GnP based off control.

But are you saying that Merab is untested in terms of how Umar will be taking him down because the only elite grappler Merab fought was Cejudo? I'd assume we were talking about how good Merab's takedowns would be against Umar.

 

[cold_spring_harbor]

I think this fight is a lot closer then most people think. I think it's going to come down to cardio and who has the advantage in the clinch.

 

[Khaosan]

Merab has about a 20% chance.

If he stays on his feet, he is going to get pieced up by Muay Thai.

Umarlek Nurmagamedovthong via running up Merab’s lead leg into a flying knee/downward elbow.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

lol, a midget that will outgrapple someone who trains everyday with the best MMA grapplers we've ever seen?
Let's see how well your message aged in a week.

Did you mean is one of the best MMA grapplers we've ever seen? Or did you actually mean the words "trains with" because you're an idiot

 

[mister piscadinha]

people will learn that surnames doesnt win fights


merab is a better wrestler, with better cardio and pressure
his performance against yan was WAY WAY more impressive than umar's against cory(who yan beat, btw)
umar is overestimated everywhere, his grappling is the weakest among the aka dagis and his striking is not stellar, his boxing is ok at best
he'll be just another name on merab's resume, and y'all be left praying for another nurmagomedov to appear

 

[Eric Silva 2.0]

Who have you EVER seen in MMA with better cardio? Or even that's shown cardio equal to him? 49 takedown attempts is otherworldly cardio. "Good" or even "great" doesn't describe it.

Oddly, his wrestling isn't as good as you're saying though. It's good, but he's not as technically sound as some other guys. And it's not necessarily because he's not capable, but it's more what I said before--he doesn't mind shooting and getting stuffed. He will level change and cage push not to try to complete a TD but sometimes just to stymie his opponent's offense. But he's not Khabib or Islam or GSP with his wrestling.

So I semi-conceded your cardio point except I won't commit to the 11. That's still too high IMO.

As for the wrestling. I just want to make sure we aren't talking past each other here. I am really talking about grappling since Merab doesn't use much BJJ and Umar comes from a sambo background. I'm talking about effective grappling. While I would concede your point that Umar is the better 'technical wrestler' it doesn't necessarily make him the more effective grappler. I think Merab is better at controlling people and also tiring them out with his grinding style. I consider this part of effective grappling. It's why I think physical strength will come into play here. The thing I disagreed most with your rankings would be physical strength. I think that will be apparent in the upcoming fight.

 

[mister piscadinha]

I appreciate your detailed response defending Merab. Browsing the forum I just saw tons of empty picks for him without reasoning. I think the differences boil down to how you and I rank skills. For me, the resume doesn't matter as much as implementing their skills in a fight. Back when Islam was getting a title shot, I vigorously defended him despite only beating Green and Hooker. So it's possible I'm biased from that.

I'll post my breakdown and maybe it'll clarify my perspective.

Wrestling: I'm biased towards Dagastani, until anyone shows superiority over their top guys, I automatically rate them highest in division. Merab probably out wrestles everyone else.
Umar 10
Merab 9

Boxing: I don't think either guy would be a great boxer without their grappling, but Umar basically decided to stand with Sandhagen and beat him. I have never seen Merab comfortable enough to really decide to strike without blending TDs/pressure.
Merab 3
Umar 7

Kicking: basically same as I wrote for boxing, Umar has better kicks than punches. I can't even remember an effective kick by Merab besides a distraction from his pressure.
Umar 9
Merab 2

Physical Strength: both guys are strong for the division, but Merab usually is a cardio machine that overwhelms, has been match by Stamann kind of. Umar has never struggled with anyone.
Merab 7
Umar 9

Cardio: I think Cardio is Merab's bread and butter, he can melt anyone that can melted. However Umar's teams conditioning is legendary and the way he passed the 5 round test with Sandhagen without a beat makes me think he's going to be much more unbreakable than Yan or Also were.
Merab 10
Umar 9

Intangibles: I think there's a whole aura of invincibility from the Dagastani gym, any top guy from Khabib's team basically is unbeaten, besides the fluke Islam KO loss. Merab's unlimited cardio is pretty scary to most, the way he beat Yan, but he's had plenty of moments in fights where he lost control and looked clueless.
Merab 7
Umar 9

this is the most ridiculous shot i've ever read

 

[TheMMAnalyst]

But are you saying that Merab is untested in terms of how Umar will be taking him down because the only elite grappler Merab fought was Cejudo? I'd assume we were talking about how good Merab's takedowns would be against Umar.

Both how Merab will get takedowns but also how he will defend, on top of his ability to control Umar and avoid submissions/sweeps (something Cejudo doesn’t have off his back).

Both guys are unproven against other high-level wrestlers that can also grapple, but from what I’ve seen Umar has better subs, sweeps, GnP, and ability to control.

 

[mkess101]

So I semi-conceded your cardio point except I won't commit to the 11. That's still too high IMO.

As for the wrestling. I just want to make sure we aren't talking past each other here. I am really talking about grappling since Merab doesn't use much BJJ and Umar comes from a sambo background. I'm talking about effective grappling. While I would concede your point that Umar is the better 'technical wrestler' it doesn't necessarily make him the more effective grappler. I think Merab is better at controlling people and also tiring them out with his grinding style. I consider this part of effective grappling. It's why I think physical strength will come into play here. The thing I disagreed most with your rankings would be physical strength. I think that will be apparent in the upcoming fight.

Right...but you "semi conceding" didn't really answer the question or give rationale as to WHY you wouldn't rank him as essentially the GOAT of MMA cardio. I gave tangible examples as to why he's shown how unreal his cardio is. You didn't really address why you think I'm overstating it with an 11. If you're literally the all time best at some aspect, an 11 seems appropriate right?

I didn't give other rankings. you're getting me confused with another guy. I have no idea who's functionally stronger between Merab and Umar.

Merab's grappling is elite if you count clinch work and cage pushing, yes. No question. You said wrestling, which I kind of think is a separate thing.

 

[Plissken]

People like o.p. are all on Umar's butt not because of what he's done but because of the pedigree of Khabib and Islam, so they fully expect Umar to be the next version of them. He may end up being that for sure, but he hasn't shown that yet, so hyping him up like this is a bit silly.

 

[Eric Silva 2.0]

Right...but you "semi conceding" didn't really answer the question or give rationale as to WHY you wouldn't rank him as essentially the GOAT of MMA cardio. I gave tangible examples as to why he's shown how unreal his cardio is. You didn't really address why you think I'm overstating it with an 11. If you're literally the all time best at some aspect, an 11 seems appropriate right?

I didn't give other rankings. you're getting me confused with another guy. I have no idea who's functionally stronger between Merab and Umar.

Merab's grappling is elite if you count clinch work and cage pushing, yes. No question. You said wrestling, which I kind of think is a separate thing.

"but you 'semi conceding didn't really answer the question or give rationale as to WHY you wouldn't rank him as essentially the GOAT of MMA cardio."
I can think of prime Nick Diaz off the top of my head as a guy with great cardio (not a grappler). I agree Merab has great cardio and I think it might make a difference in the fight. I don't like playing the GOAT game. He's at the very top of the list and keeps an incredible pace in his fights. The Yan fight definitely stands out. I think you are still overstating with an 11 because it's 1-10 ranking. I think that's pretty straightforward.

"you're getting me confused with another guy"
yes, I did.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

After I have seen how Merab dealt with and almost nullified strikers like Yan, Aldo and ok O’Malley too, I find it quite childish to think that he would not have success with other dangerous strikers.
Merab completely toyed with Henry’s Olympic level wrestling and has had one of the UFCs best BJJ backpackers as a training partner for years.
One could confidently say that Merabs sambo is better than his next opponents.

What else do you need to think that the fight will absolutely be competitive and Merab has all the tools to retain his belt?

The more interesting though is that, how team tiramisu will deal that evening, with their emotions, if their boy loses in the co-main and they still have a really competitive fight in the main event that they might lose as well if things don’t go perfectly right.

the other thing about Merab is he's from a gym that's famous for upsets. Weidman over Anderson, Serra over GSP, Sterling over Yan. this underdog position that he's in is a comfortable place for this team. they know what it is to be underestimated.

 

[biscuitsbrah]

I can see this fight being a “boring” chess match

 

[josh345]

Why can't he out grapple Umar? He's not Khabib. He's a striker first. And he's never been tested like Merab will.

Yeah after seeing him Rag doll/EPO cejudo....I would say he's got a good freaking shot at it.

 

[mkess101]

"but you 'semi conceding didn't really answer the question or give rationale as to WHY you wouldn't rank him as essentially the GOAT of MMA cardio."
I can think of prime Nick Diaz off the top of my head as a guy with great cardio (not a grappler). I agree Merab has great cardio and I think it might make a difference in the fight. I don't like playing the GOAT game. He's at the very top of the list and keeps an incredible pace in his fights. The Yan fight definitely stands out. I think you are still overstating with an 11 because it's 1-10 ranking. I think that's pretty straightforward.

"you're getting me confused with another guy"
yes, I did.

Fair enough on the 11 but trust me in that the pace AND style at which Merab fights is more taxing than literally any other style. Being able to hold that pace with that style hasn't been seen before. Nick did have great cardio (and did show it in a fight that was mostly grappling vs Karo Parysian). Ferguson had amazing cardio too, like his nonstop action vs RDA at Mexico City elevation. But what Merab showed vs Yan we've never seen.

 

[Thepaintbucket]

It's a great fight. It's one of those fights where both guys are equally skilled. I don't think either guy is going to out class one over the other. A fight like Merab vs O'Malley was a lot more predictable imo

 

[Poirierfan]

I'm still a little salty about the way he beat Aldo, he literally just held him against the fence for 15 minutes

That's why I distain Merab's style, it's MMA poison.

 

[Rayess]

Did you mean is one of the best MMA grapplers we've ever seen? Or did you actually mean the words "trains with" because you're an idiot

*Santa Ana Wind* sounds

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

*Santa Ana Wind* sounds

The sound of the comments going through the cavern between your ears