For anyone that thinks Usman is above GSP already...

[Azyy]

I think 9 title defenses is better than 5.

Context and losses matter. GSP had 3 title shots in his first 11 fights, the first of which he lost. Usman needed 9 fights for his title shot.

 

[Satan's Daddy.]

Usman still has a long road ahead of him to even be mentioned around Gsp's achievements. That's coming from a fan of his too.

 

[Fioretti]

OK so you are admitting then that GSP is GOAT now??

But that is not how GOAT is measured anywhere else so why are you making up your own method?

GOAT is always CAREER accomplishments. Within that a Championship is weighted higher but you do not ignore what happens before or after.

IF you do it your way then you get weird situations where guys who will rank very highly who had a relative m'eh career but had a short burst strong Championship run.

GSP and Anderson and jones and Fedor's and Khabib's runup to the first title WIN matters in GOAT talk. GOAT does not start counting only the day the person grabs a Title and then stops the day after they are out of contention. Khabib gets points for his undefeated run PRIOR. It is not as much points, but as @Fioretti , that is a considered 'accomplishment'.

If what you say here made any sense anyone could argue based on a snipped time frame (who was considered GOAT in 1980? 1990?, 2000?) if you just considered the records at that time and then say that makes them GOAT today and that is NOT how this is done.

You're right, it all matters. GSP started his championship career 1-2. Jones is 15-0 in title fights, and Silva went 17-0 in title fights before finally losing one at age 38.

 

[Fioretti]

lol Thunderstruck I had never seen that poll and you are now dragging around @pankrat corpse clinging to its last breath pretending there is still a debate here.

That is as embarrassing for him as it is for @Fioretti who pretends that the GSP/Penn 2 fight was in dispute and a robbery and thus GSP does not get full credit for the win.

There is debate of legit points and there is denial and these guys are living deep in the latter.

I never said GSP vs Penn 2 was considered a robbery. Their first fight was. The second fight was Grease Gate, but that's another story.

 

[Mark McMichael]

lol @Fioretti hand wave away of any ranking site that shows which ACCOMPLISHMENTS they are ranking and him just saying 'does not matter'.

He waves away Analysts, MMA ranking Sites, Fighter and Sports Pundits and pretends the only thing that matters in proving this is two shertards opinions.

This with a guy who will not even say GSP/BJ1 was not considered a controversial win for GSP outside of a handful of BJ zealots and GSP haters.

You are too much Fioretti. You know you lose this debate and as such just want to make it about two posters who will never agree.

 

[Mark McMichael]

I never said GSP vs Penn 2 was considered a robbery. Their first fight was. The second fight was Grease Gate2, but that's another story.

Putting 2 there was a Typo that i fixed. I meant 1.

And no it was not considered a robbery. Not even a little bit. That is a complete lie.

A robbery is defined as a Fight that was not even close where the wrong guy ended up getting the nod. It is not when a fight is considered close but the guy you favoured did not get the win because judging is subjective and if you agree it is close, then you cannot say the judge did not see it slightly different than you as every different person gets to have their opinion.

But what you say is the #1 error made by people who do not understand Fighting. It is the easiest way to out a noob or naive fight analyst as they watch fights and think every close fight that goes the other way is a robbery.

That is you Fioretti. This discussion is engaged all the time in MMA circles and guys like you who do not know what robbery means are laughed at.

 

[Substance Abuse]

Yawn.

Go there if you want to avoid derailing the thread :

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/which-goat-win-was-the-best-between-these-2.4203633/

I politely ask you to post in the right thread but im the one derailing the thread?



https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/which-goat-win-was-the-best-between-these-2.4203633/

@pankrat and @ThunderStruck

You kids wanna play nice for once? Got damn, you two can't leave each other alone, lol.

 

[Fioretti]

Putting 2 there was a Typo that i fixed. I meant 1.

And no it was not considered a robbery. Not even a little bit. That is a complete lie.

A robbery is defined as a Fight that was not even close where the wrong guy ended up getting the nod. It is not when a fight is considered close but the guy you favoured did not get the win because judging is subjective and if you agree it is close, then you cannot say the judge did not see it slightly different than you as every different person gets to have their opinion.

But what you say is the #1 error made by people who do not understand Fighting. It is the easiest way to out a noob or naive fight analyst as they watch fights and think every close fight that goes the other way is a robbery.

That is you Fioretti. This discussion is engaged all the time in MMA circles and guys like you who do not know what robbery means are laughed at.

I know the difference. I didn't say my opinion was that it was a "robbery", but considered by many. Regardless, you clinging to one word I posted weeks ago is indicative of your lack of argument.

Just list GSP's accomplishments or shut the fuck up, buddy. Fight Matrix literally has a disclaimer about their generated rankings and how they do not reflect actual rankings. List the fucking accomplishments or move along. We all know why you won't do it.

 

[Mark McMichael]

@Fioretti, No it is indicative that people like you argue from emotion and not logic and thus agreement is not possible.

You like the masturbatory exercise of only arguing against another poster as you know you can simply disagree forever and that is all that matters to yoiu.

Look at @pankrat who still argues Okami over Fitch.

It is fine that your emotional response makes you think it is valid to say 'GSP/BJ 1 was controversial'. You would get a ton of BJ fanatics to also say it. You guys can circle jerk one another.

It is fine that Pankrat can argue Okami over Fitch all in emotion.

What you guys CANNOT do is show your opinions (and that is all these are) enjoy any wide support.

I post actual Rankings based on Accomplishments and you say 'they don't count', 'lets instead just post our own lists and use that'.

What is the point of that? Are we going to change Pankrats incredibly dumb and wrong view on Okami V Fitch or your view that GSP/BJ1 was controversial. No.

But emotional arguers only want that. A he said, she said, no one convinces anyone fight we have all had with our girlfriends were no amount of logic matters. Only 'feels' do.

Not interested in that with you, sorry.

The absolute best analysis for your position is GOAT rankings as they do EXACTLY what you are asking for and consider accomplishments across a career. And you dismiss them as meaningless. Why? Because they point to GSP and your 'feels' don't like that.

 

[Fioretti]

@Fioretti, No it is indicative that people like you argue from emotion and not logic and thus agreement is not possible.

You like the masturbatory exercise of only arguing against another poster as you know you can simply disagree forever and that is all that matters to yoiu.

Look at @pankrat who still argues Okami over Fitch.

It is fine that your emotional response makes you think it is valid to say 'GSP/BJ 1 was controversial'. You would get a ton of BJ fanatics to also say it. You guys can circle jerk one another.

It is fine that Pankrat can argue Okami over Fitch all in emotion.

What you guys CANNOT do is show your opinions (and that is all these are) enjoy any wide support.

I post actual Rankings based on Accomplishments and you say 'they don't count', 'lets instead just post our own lists and use that'.

What is the point of that? Are we going to change Pankrats incredibly dumb and wrong view on Okami V Fitch or your view that GSP/BJ1 was controversial. No.

But emotional arguers only want that. A he said, she said, no one convinces anyone fight we have all had with our girlfriends were no amount of logic matters. Only 'feels' do.

Not interested in that with you, sorry.

The absolute best analysis for your position is GOAT rankings as they do EXACTLY what you are asking for and consider accomplishments across a career. And you dismiss them as meaningless. Why? Because they point to GSP and your 'feels' don't like that.

List the actual accomplishments of each fighter, genius, not your opinion. They would be objective and factual, not opionated. Auto-generated rankings from Fight Matrix are not actual rankings, it even states it in their disclaimer. It's a generated SoS calculator that is skewed by GSP facing Hughes 3 times, as I stated in my initial post. It is not listing his accomplishments.

Pankrat is correct about Okami and Fitch. That too is factual and objective.

You're a fuckin troll. What was your original account? List GSP's accomplishments or concede. By not listing them, you are also conceding.

 

[Mark McMichael]

@Fioretti you are so painfully dumb you make this impossible. You argue entirely like an emotional person.

Fight Matrix is every bit Rankings as what you are going to do. They take defined ACCOMPLISHMENTS, weight them based on their subjective criteria and then generate a result.

Anything you put forth will not be objective as you have to weight how much you value 'finishes' over 'decisions' or 'top 10 opponents' or 'p4p ranked opponents'.

Someone logic based knows two shertards will put very different values and thus just go thru the exercise to never agree.

If I cannot make you acknowledge that BJ/GSp1 was not a robbery for many, and that is as clear as day, then I can't make you weight 'finishes' less than SoS if you don't agree.

But OK lets do it your way but you must go first. I am not wasting my time trying to post what I THINK you want only to have you just hand wave it all away. Build your list based on ACCOMPLISHMENTS, detail the logic and weighting you are applying to then order those criteria to get to a result and I will template off what you do, once i agree.

Show us you are not just a troll here or just purely an emotion driven poster and Put UP what you ask for.

 

[pankrat]

@Fioretti, No it is indicative that people like you argue from emotion and not logic and thus agreement is not possible.

You like the masturbatory exercise of only arguing against another poster as you know you can simply disagree forever and that is all that matters to yoiu.

Look at @pankrat who still argues Okami over Fitch.

It is fine that your emotional response makes you think it is valid to say 'GSP/BJ 1 was controversial'. You would get a ton of BJ fanatics to also say it. You guys can circle jerk one another.

It is fine that Pankrat can argue Okami over Fitch all in emotion.

What you guys CANNOT do is show your opinions (and that is all these are) enjoy any wide support.

I post actual Rankings based on Accomplishments and you say 'they don't count', 'lets instead just post our own lists and use that'.

What is the point of that? Are we going to change Pankrats incredibly dumb and wrong view on Okami V Fitch or your view that GSP/BJ1 was controversial. No.

But emotional arguers only want that. A he said, she said, no one convinces anyone fight we have all had with our girlfriends were no amount of logic matters. Only 'feels' do.

Not interested in that with you, sorry.

The absolute best analysis for your position is GOAT rankings as they do EXACTLY what you are asking for and consider accomplishments across a career. And you dismiss them as meaningless. Why? Because they point to GSP and your 'feels' don't like that.

FANBOY:

I would put Okami generally as hanging in and around the bottom of the Top 10 of MW .

Sherdog Rankings:

2013 - https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/4/Sherdogs-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-52775 - Okami #4

2012 - https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/4/Sherdogs-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-40091 - Okami #3

2011 - https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/4/Sherdog-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-33703 - Okami #3

2010 - https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/4/Sherdog-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-28893 - Okami #3

2009 - https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/4/Sherdog-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-17131 - Okami #2

2008 - https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/4/Sherdog-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-15631 - Okami #4


FANBOY:

GSP was also awesome. Also widely regarded at #1 P4P during much of his reign and for a longer time than Anderson.

Sherdog P4P Rankings
2008 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/GSP-Moves-Up-P4P-List-But-Not-to-Top-12459

2009 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-17145

2010 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-23166

2011 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-36383

2012 - Silva #1
https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-PoundforPound-Top-10-45047




Your arguments?

GSP was awesome, widely regarded at #1 P4P during much of his reign and for a longer time than Anderson.
No doubt about that and no shame in admitting it.

Stay safe

 

[Fioretti]

@Fioretti you are so painfully dumb you make this impossible. You argue entirely like an emotional person.

Fight Matrix is every bit Rankings as what you are going to do. They take defined ACCOMPLISHMENTS, weight them based on their subjective criteria and then generate a result.

Anything you put forth will not be objective as you have to weight how much you value 'finishes' over 'decisions' or 'top 10 opponents' or 'p4p ranked opponents'.

Someone logic based knows two shertards will put very different values and thus just go thru the exercise to never agree.

If I cannot make you acknowledge that BJ/GSp1 was not a robbery for many, and that is as clear as day, then I can't make you weight 'finishes' less than SoS if you don't agree.

But OK lets do it your way but you must go first. I am not wasting my time trying to post what I THINK you want only to have you just hand wave it all away. Build your list based on ACCOMPLISHMENTS, detail the logic and weighting you are applying to then order those criteria to get to a result and I will template off what you do, once i agree.

Show us you are not just a troll here or just purely an emotion driven poster and Put UP what you ask for.

Accomplishments are not subjective. List his accomplishments. You're projecting your emotional responses onto me, bud, and it's not working. Jones and Silva are both more accomplished fighters. Generated rankings are not a list of accomplishments.

 

[Mark McMichael]

Accomplishments are not subjective. List his accomplishments. You're projecting your emotional responses onto me, bud, and it's not working. Jones and Silva are both more accomplished fighters. Generated rankings are not a list of accomplishments.

You are going to have to get over this as you are both dumb and not my boss.

And that is the reason you have to go first.

You are so dumb you do not know why USING multiple ACCOMPLISHMENTS to get to an outcome is subjectve.

And without you knowing something so simply, it is almost certain you hold many stupid ideas that would make this pointless which is why if you want the list, you go first.

So for just the most minor proof for you that your emotional brain won't get, an ACCOMPLISHMENT is Silva finishing Sonnen in the last possible seconds of a fight after losing all fight. And another accomplishment is GSP beating Fitch by decision in a mostly one sided beatdown decision.

You being emotional will likely say the Silva wins counts higher while not recognizing others who create the same list could put the GSP win higher.

Can your emotional brain read and comprehend that? Or would you dispute it?

 

[Fioretti]

You are going to have to get over this as you are both dumb and not my boss.

And that is the reason you have to go first.

You are so dumb you do not know why USING multiple ACCOMPLISHMENTS to get to an outcome is subjectve.

And without you knowing something so simply, it is almost certain you hold many stupid ideas that would make this pointless which is why if you want the list, you go first.

So for just the most minor proof for you that your emotional brain won't get, an ACCOMPLISHMENT is Silva finishing Sonnen in the last possible seconds of a fight after losing all fight. And another accomplishment is GSP beating Fitch by decision in a mostly one sided beatdown decision.

You being emotional will likely say the Silva wins counts higher while not recognizing others who create the same list could put the GSP win higher.

Can your emotional brain read and comprehend that? Or would you dispute it?

Neither of those are accomplishments, kidd-o, those are fight outcomes. Do you truly not understand what an accomplishment is? This is either some lame ass, exaggerated trolling, or you are very young.

Accolades and accomplishments. Google it, then get back to me with a list. Fuckin hell.

 

[Mark McMichael]

Neither of those are accomplishments, kidd-o, those are fight outcomes. Do you truly not understand what an accomplishment is? This is either some lame ass, exaggerated trolling, or you are very young.

Accolades and accomplishments. Google it, then get back to me with a list. Fuckin hell.

A win is definitely an accomplishment you halfwit. And how you win is what people use to rank in these GOAT discussions you nitwit.

But you are proving the point. Just post your fucking list instead of asking me to do the work for you so you can then say 'you wasted your time, that is all wrong, do it all again'.

Or STFU as I am not doing the work you refuse to do and you cannot force it.

 

[Fioretti]

A win is definitely an accomplishment you halfwit. And how you win is what people use to rank in these GOAT discussions you nitwit.

But you are proving the point. Just post your fucking list instead of asking me to do the work for you so you can then say 'you wasted your time, that is all wrong, do it all again'.

Or STFU as I am not doing the work you refuse to do and you cannot force it.

Cumulative wins and finishes are part of accomplishments, sure, but the individual wins are not considered accomplishments themselves. They count towards accomplishments like "title defenses".

How old are you, buddy boy? Seem to have some kind of complex where you want to rebel against someone asking you to back up your words. Weird.

 

[Mark McMichael]

Cumulative wins and finishes are part of accomplishments, sure, but the individual wins are not considered accomplishments themselves. They count towards accomplishments like "title defenses".

How old are you, buddy boy? Seem to have some kind of complex where you want to rebel against someone asking you to back up your words. Weird.

When people compare records they ABSOLUTELY do count finishes and decisions as part of the analysis. You are a halfwit to not know that. It IS part of their analyses and those happen in individual fights. Are you new or just dumb?

Put out your accomplishments and lets see if even you count wins with finishes and wins with decision differently. I am betting you do and you are just lying. But prove me wrong and put out your accomplishment lists.

 

[Fake Doctor]

The UFC isn't trying to sell GSP at this point. Remember what they said about Rousey when she was the thing? They'll say anything for a buck.

 

[Fioretti]

When people compare records they ABSOLUTELY do count finishes and decisions as part of the analysis. You are a halfwit to not know that. It IS part of their analyses and those happen in individual fights. Are you new or just dumb?

Put out your accomplishments and lets see if even you count wins with finishes and wins with decision differently. I am betting you do and you are just lying. But prove me wrong and put out your accomplishment lists.

Wow, man. For someone who isn't very bright, you try to attack the intellect of others quite often. Especially those who seem to be more knowledgeable than you, or maybe just have more life experience. I mean, you can't even fucking spell analysis. How well do you analyze what you type? How about what you read? You first need to understand what accomplishments and accolades are. Then you should study up on how they are relevant to what you're attempting to discuss and/or have knowledge on here. You're missing some very simple and basic concepts that are crucial, and you're not even competent enough to understand that you keep making yourself look worse with every rage-filled paragraph. Especially when you capitalize words repeatedly or use them out of context. It really shows your age, bud. Just as you asking me if I'm new when you made this troll account 2 days ago shows your age.

Make me a list, little girl. Show your work. Back up them wittle words.