Fighting Games Discussion

Croaker said:
You can't micro walk and block, you can't react to it. You can react to his psycho crusher, you can't react to scissors.
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It's a 13 frame start up for lk and 17 frame for m/h. Treat it like a fireball, you can def micro block.
 
SwamiLeoni said:
It's a 13 frame start up for lk and 17 frame for m/h. Treat it like a fireball, you can def micro block.
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no, you cant

This is like saying just react to the overhead

You aren't recognizing and reactiing to 13/60ths of a second. Bison isn't just sitting at a fireball range and throwing them out. It's a mix up tool in the mid range. You are not, and will never react. I've been grinding this today, and my spacing is better vs Bison. It's still DR off of a lk or whatever is not great for most characters. I'm trying to see a way to lab this consistently and it just isn't there.
 
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Timestamps are included for the games, SF6 included. :cool:
 
Croaker said:
no, you cant

This is like saying just react to the overhead

You aren't recognizing and reactiing to 13/60ths of a second. Bison isn't just sitting at a fireball range and throwing them out. It's a mix up tool in the mid range. You are not, and will never react. I've been grinding this today, and my spacing is better vs Bison. It's still DR off of a lk or whatever is not great for most characters. I'm trying to see a way to lab this consistently and it just isn't there.
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I dunno, I don't really consider walk and block reaction based, It's a microstep forward and block. You're moving forward and primitively blocking to bait out a bad decision.
 
SwamiLeoni said:
I dunno, I don't really consider walk and block reaction based, It's a microstep forward and block. You're moving forward and primitively blocking to bait out a bad decision.
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when you're playing footsies you're playing for your space, or taking tools away from the opponent. It's proactive, and for lack of a better term, taking up mental stack. It's also much different online than offline. Some things you can fuzzy guard offline you can't online for instance. When it comes to his scissor kick, he's not doing it full screen. You're already looking for cr.mk range, stand jab/st mp bait/punish and fierce checking. If he didn't have neutral tools to fight everyone in the game it wouldn't be such a good tool.
 
Croaker said:
He's in the grand finals with him right now for can opener tonight iirc

Punk could do this with almost anyone. Given the neutral tools of Bison, its almost a match made in heaven for Punk.
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When MenaRD beat Punk earlier this year with Blanka vs. Punk's Cammy (in a Grand Final) and Punk said "Yeah, Capcom really needs to look at Blanka, there's a nerf that needs to happen there."

I was like...

<{Joewithit}>
 
Strychnine said:
When MenaRD beat Punk earlier this year with Blanka vs. Punk's Cammy (in a Grand Final) and Punk said "Yeah, Capcom really needs to look at Blanka, there's a nerf that needs to happen there."

I was like...

<{Joewithit}>
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Blanka is still hella ignorant. They did touch his cr mp and cr mk. His cr mp was almost as good as Luke's in season 1, and they added 20% scaling to Blanka chan combos. If Blanka got as much reward off of punish combos as Rashid he'd be top 3 this season.
 
Croaker said:
when you're playing footsies you're playing for your space, or taking tools away from the opponent. It's proactive, and for lack of a better term, taking up mental stack. It's also much different online than offline. Some things you can fuzzy guard offline you can't online for instance. When it comes to his scissor kick, he's not doing it full screen. You're already looking for cr.mk range, stand jab/st mp bait/punish and fierce checking. If he didn't have neutral tools to fight everyone in the game it wouldn't be such a good tool.
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No, I get it. Footsies is whats used to establish the mid-range. Baiting, counter pokes, whiff punishing etc are all part of the game. Micro blocking falls into the baiting aspect of the footsie game because you're looking for someone to attack with a punishable normal in that mid-range.

Looking at Bison further, and ya while his scissor knees are oppressive, what's even more so is his +frames (and range) on his st.fierce (+3??) and only -2 on roundhouse. Even with a 19-frame start up, the length of the attack makes it really viable for neutral pokes. Basically, st.fierce into cr.strong all day.
 


If I'm not mistaken, Max 'Dood used to work on Killer Instinct and has been in the Fighting Game Community (FGC) since forever.
 
Croaker said:
You can't micro walk and block, you can't react to it. You can react to his psycho crusher, you can't react to scissors.
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I do wonder whether the decision to shift it from a charge move happened late on and it kept the properties despite being far easier to throw out on offence?
 
moreorless87 said:
I do wonder whether the decision to shift it from a charge move happened late on and it kept the properties despite being far easier to throw out on offence?
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Its because of modern controls. I'm sure it was thought about well in advance. They've been done with season 3, or at least close to it for a bit now.
 
in some ways I spose it harks back to classic SF2 but I don't think Bison locking people down with endless scissor kick block strings is something people look back on that fondly.
 
Did anyone realize that EVO IS THIS WEEK!

<30>


29a89a35737679.560629548c20b.jpg
 
Croaker said:
when you're playing footsies you're playing for your space, or taking tools away from the opponent. It's proactive, and for lack of a better term, taking up mental stack. It's also much different online than offline. Some things you can fuzzy guard offline you can't online for instance. When it comes to his scissor kick, he's not doing it full screen. You're already looking for cr.mk range, stand jab/st mp bait/punish and fierce checking. If he didn't have neutral tools to fight everyone in the game it wouldn't be such a good tool.
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I caught some top players with a neutral jump. If they get hit with it, and you keep showing it to them. Makes much more hesitant to use.
 
what-wut said:
I caught some top players with a neutral jump. If they get hit with it, and you keep showing it to them. Makes much more hesitant to use.
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Yeah, that works vs people who don't want to play footsies and force the engagement. Those people are retarded because Bison's buttons are better than anyones.
 
Daigo forgot to renew his visa and wasn't allowed to board his flight to vegas <36>

Someone get that man into AA or something. His drinking problem knows no limits.

Edit: according to Fuudo everything is set up now for Daigo to leave tomorrow. Still hilarious.
 
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