Crime FBI claims to have thwarted militia plot to kidnap governor Whitmer

Amerikuracana said:
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/n...x2o3R5tACMkwl6niL5YJ2wwOeIlPdQu_tBdrHO6DbU6sY


I have to research this more. Do I fully trust the fbi right now? No. They are acting political, which corrupts. Do right wingers have an unreadable amount of hate towards Whitmer at times? I think so. I’m not a huge Whitmer fan, and she literally looks really angry and weird most of the time, which is getting old, but I don’t wish her harm and I don’t think she’s trying to be a dictator more than her party in general. She is just expressing her party wishes. Of course that does not warrant harm or kidnapping etc.. Violence against her is wrong.


So is this going to be used to repress decent people under the guise of battling the white supremacy boogie man, while urban crime and riots rot our soul just like the power structure wants? How is this going to be used, because it’s likely going to be used.

in reading the story you will likely see that it was actually 6 (Now 13 total) people talking some sh*t. (Update: their preparatory actions seem to potentially rise to conspiracy) Not that they couldn’t have done “something.” So yeah, how will that be “used?”

UPDATE: Now 13 men alleged involved in the plot.

UPDATE: Whitmer and Biden blame President Trump and use group to promote their politics.
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Halifax said:
Not really. Prostitution is a misdemeanor

This is more akin to undercover Donnie Brasco and the government setting up vending machine operations or kings Court gambling rings they knew the mob would try to move in on, finance and aid to snag them in racketeering cases.
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Wasn't really talking about the seriousness of the crime, just the structure of the "investigation" and arrest. An analogy doesn't need to be equal in degree in order to be apt. That's not how analogies work. Often we use the small as an analogy for the large or the large as an analogy for the small. So long as the corresponding parts have analogous relationships, the analogy still holds.

All of that is to say, the devil is in the details. If the people caught up in this operation were already terrorists and the operation was used to draw them out, then the Donny Brasco analogy holds. If they were vulnerable people who were then converted into terrorists by the operation, the prostitution analogy holds.

I don't know which of these is the case. But the fact that prostitution is a misdemeanor is neither here nor there.

P.S. And wouldn't illegal gambling also generally be considered a misdemeanor?
 
jeremyemilio said:
Wasn't really talking about the seriousness of the crime, just the structure of the "investigation" and arrest. An analogy doesn't need to be equal in degree in order to be apt. That's not how analogies work. Often we use the small as an analogy for the large or the large as an analogy for the small. So long as the corresponding parts have analogous relationships, the analogy still holds.

All of that is to say, the devil is in the details. If the people caught up in this operation were already terrorists and the operation was used to draw them out, then the Donny Brasco analogy holds. If they were vulnerable people who were then converted into terrorists by the operation, the prostitution analogy holds.

I don't know which of these is the case. But the fact that prostitution is a misdemeanor is neither here nor there.

P.S. And wouldn't illegal gambling also generally be considered a misdemeanor?
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No, running or financing an illegal gambling ring as a business or racket is a federal crime.
 
Papi Chulo said:
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Same reason Donnie Brasco used government funds and agents in his undercover operations they set up, like the vending machine businesses and gambling rings created by brasco. They knew the business ventures were near certainly going to draw the mob associates he already knew in to take it over, and the way they did it made them need to seek permission and recruits from mob families in other states
 
jeremyemilio said:
Fair. My point about the aptness of the respective analogies still holds.
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I just personally don't have a problem with it. If arseholes were looking for ways to make statement and do dumb dangerous things like kidnapping, I'd rather they be off the streets.

Now if it can be shown that they were just normal guys who would never have dreamed of doing this themselves without heavy pushes and coaxing, then it might be different.

I've been offered opportunities in less than legal ventures. I just peace out and avoid it. If I guy is offering me a "finders fee" of $2000 to use my ability and position to buy equipment from his company instead of another, that's not going to fly well in conflict of interest if it gets found out, and I know it. I also know a lot of people do it. I just don't and have turned it down the 3 times it has been asked over the last 20 years.

Kidnapping is way more serious an issue. I would never dream of it and would walk away from the conversation in a heartbeat. To be the sort that gets talked into something like that is beyond my comprehension and I don't feel sorry for them at all.
 
Everyone involved in this should be in jail from the FBI, to the informants, to the radicals.
 
Halifax said:
I just personally don't have a problem with it. If arseholes were looking for ways to make statement and do dumb dangerous things like kidnapping, I'd rather they be off the streets.

Now if it can be shown that they were just normal guys who would never have dreamed of doing this themselves without heavy pushes and coaxing, then it might be different.

I've been offered opportunities in less than legal ventures. I just peace out and avoid it. If I guy is offering me a "finders fee" of $2000 to use my ability and position to buy equipment from his company instead of another, that's not going to fly well in conflict of interest if it gets found out, and I know it. I also know a lot of people do it. I just don't and have turned it down the 3 times it has been asked over the last 20 years.

Kidnapping is way more serious an issue. I would never dream of it and would walk away from the conversation in a heartbeat. To be the sort that gets talked into something like that is beyond my comprehension and I don't feel sorry for them at all.
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I get all of this.

But we know that the young black men who join gangs, and the young Italian men who get pulled into mob activity, and the young Muslim men who join Islamic terrorist groups, and the young white men who become militant nationalists, all share some common traits that make them vulnerable to this sort of radicalization.

We aren't talking about you and me, here. We are talking about people who feel alone and disenfranchised and powerless. Often people with low IQ and/or mental health issues and/or histories of trauma or neglect.

Those people deserve more from their government than to be drawn into a plot they never could have organized on their own and then arrested.
 
jeremyemilio said:
I get all of this.

But we know that the young black men who join gangs, and the young Italian men who get pulled into mob activity, and the young Muslim men who join Islamic terrorist groups, and the young white men who become militant nationalists, all share some common traits that make them vulnerable to this sort of radicalization.

We aren't talking about you and me, here. We are talking about people who feel alone and disenfranchised and powerless. Often people with low IQ and/or mental health issues and/or histories of trauma or neglect.

Those people deserve more from their government than to be drawn into a plot they never could have organized on their own and then arrested.
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Great post.

It's a point often forgotten.
Humans are easy to guide and manipulate. For good or evil.
All of us, from all groups and locals.
 
jeremyemilio said:
I get all of this.

But we know that the young black men who join gangs, and the young Italian men who get pulled into mob activity, and the young Muslim men who join Islamic terrorist groups, and the young white men who become militant nationalists, all share some common traits that make them vulnerable to this sort of radicalization.

We aren't talking about you and me, here. We are talking about people who feel alone and disenfranchised and powerless. Often people with low IQ and/or mental health issues and/or histories of trauma or neglect.

Those people deserve more from their government than to be drawn into a plot they never could have organized on their own and then arrested.
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Post of the day.
 
jeremyemilio said:
I get all of this.

But we know that the young black men who join gangs, and the young Italian men who get pulled into mob activity, and the young Muslim men who join Islamic terrorist groups, and the young white men who become militant nationalists, all share some common traits that make them vulnerable to this sort of radicalization.

We aren't talking about you and me, here. We are talking about people who feel alone and disenfranchised and powerless. Often people with low IQ and/or mental health issues and/or histories of trauma or neglect.

Those people deserve more from their government than to be drawn into a plot they never could have organized on their own and then arrested.
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I get the general direction of your post.

But men who join gangs and the mob don't do it because of special vulnerabilities in their psyche. They do it for monetary gain without real work, opportunity and power. They see glamor in that life and think its cool and easier than living a law abiding life. That's a different kind of weakness.

I don't consider that the same ballpark as brainwashed nationalists and hard-core religious.

I also don't care what made them the way they are. We could go down that rabbithole all week. I just want them off the streets.

Be it a violent antifa thug or a violent proud boy thug. A religious nut, or a nationalist nut or a BLM rioter. If they are willing to do things like kidnapping, murder, I just don't care what made them the way they are other than to help find and prevent it in the future.
 
moosaev said:
but but but ANTIFA and BLM are more dangerous than right wing extremists!

lmao. What a joke. Rightwing extremists are the biggest internal national security threat this country is facing, and there isn't a close second.
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LOL where you at now?
 
maximus__ said:
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/n...g-domestic-incident-richard-trask/8013618002/
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...er-kidnapping-plot-say-fbi-set-them-up-report
This will be even more interesting. The main witness is getting charged with domestic assault and was paramount in the planning of what occurred...
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the FBI’s own reputation around this case gets weaker by the minute. Last month they got another one of the agents on audio saying they all need to “sabotage the defense’s case”. I know that’s just talk, but juries will see this shit and think they are unreliable witnesses.
 
Again, the FBI is one of the world's leading sponsors of terrorist activity.

They can't really be taken seriously be sensible people. The whole organisation needs to be purged.
 
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