Social Even Democrats now agree : No Russian Collusion

You didn't read my original link did you Bob? Are you seriously arguing that the Russians didn't take that statement as a cue, or just that Trump didn't mean it that way? Beyond my own incredulity about such an improbable coincidence, why do you think Mueller made sure to note that coincidence in his indictment of those 12 Russian hackers? Funny too that between him saying that on TV and Manafort and Gates meeting with Kilimnik (and all leaving through different doors, per Gates) that Trump went on MSNBC and talked about how "the people of Crimea, from what I have heard, would rather be with Russia than where they were", it's almost like he is saying what Putin would have wanted him to say.

And... I am not hearing you take back calling me a retard, you have insulted my honor and I demand satisfaction.
If Hilary was savy she would have baited him into asking Russia to run ads/manipulate Facebook during the debate. It wouldn't have ended him but it would have been hilarious when he got fined or a charge.

But alas Hilary sucked. She's like that girl from middle school that was snooty and way over prepared for any class project to the point of being robotic and boring.
 
Why do you think Trump was talking about Crimean public opinion, who do you think told him anything about Crimean public opinion, and who do you think wanted him to advocate for that radical position for the GOP and the USA, the fucking stork?
To be fair he could have been so oddly pro Russia because they've funded his business dealings once the US banks wouldn't touch him, wouldn't be collusion but it would be nice if more of those facts came out of the investigation.

Collusion or no I feel like citizens have the right to know about potential conflicts of interest the POTUS has.

Hopefully we can get a law that requires tax returns etc to be released in full.
 
To be fair he could have been so oddly pro Russia because they've funded his business dealings once the US banks wouldn't touch him, wouldn't be collusion but it would be nice if more of those facts came out of the investigation.

Collusion or no I feel like citizens have the right to know about potential conflicts of interest the POTUS has.

Hopefully we can get a law that requires tax returns etc to be released in full.

I think you are vastly overestimating Trump's sense of loyalty and graciousness for those that have lent him money, Trump is obviously compromised in some way when it comes to Russia. Beyond all of the facts behind the lies and known shadiness surrounding Russia before the election and after Comey's firing, at the expense of constant bad press, Trump has continued to question US intelligence in favor of Putin's "strong" denials, has hidden meeting with Putin from the press, hasn't shared the details of Putin meetings with people in his cabinet, has absconded with the interpreter's notes from those meetings, and has generally allowed himself to appear inferior and weak in comparison to the leader of a country with the GDP of New York State. Trump's whole identity is about showing strength and fighting for power, respect, and fear, but not once when it comes to Putin. His performance in Helsinki was shocking, after his private meeting with Putin he looked like a lumbering offensive lineman at Alabama after a tough film session with Coach Saban.

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I think you are vastly overestimating Trump's sense of loyalty and graciousness for those that have lent him money, Trump is obviously compromised in some way when it comes to Russia. Beyond all of the facts behind the lies and known shadiness surrounding Russia before the election and after Comey's firing, at the expense of constant bad press, Trump has continued to question US intelligence in favor of Putin's "strong" denials, has hidden meeting with Putin from the press, hasn't shared the details of Putin meetings with people in his cabinet, has absconded with the interpreter's notes from those meetings, and has generally allowed himself to appear inferior and weak in comparison to the leader of a country with the GDP of New York State. Trump's whole identity is about showing strength and fighting for power, respect, and fear, but not once when it comes to Putin. His performance in Helsinki was shocking, after his private meeting with Putin he looked like a lumbering offensive lineman at Alabama after a tough film session with Coach Saban.

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Lol he does look like he just found out he has to bring home a bad report card to an abusive parent.

I'm not saying he's thankful to Putin, I'm saying Putin could pull the plug on a good bit of his empire's funding keeping the business alive, as well as the secret of his poverty (and with Trump's vanity that alone would be powerful). With or without kompromat of the highly illegal sort, with or without collusion. My bet is on kompromat and collusion, but I think the former may and the later may not be proven to a legal standard.

Just saying it isn't implausible that personal business dealings alond could be enough for a person like Trump to sell out the US.
 
ROFL! The only people that "leaked" were Comey, Steele, McCabe, and other DoJ / FBI Officials.

Two teams "colluded" first was the Clinton/Democrat team that funded Steele who worked with the Russians, and then leaked his lies to Yahoo News. The second team was the DoJ / FBI that signed FISA Warrants that contained damaging information that was never verified. That is not supposed to happen, is illegal, and multiple DoJ / FBI officials signed off on it, knowing the law, and knowing the material was not verified per Bruce Ohr's testimony.

Thanks for teeing that one up... I left the souvenir in the parking lot for you.

Oh great, someone who wants to talk about the Steele Dossier, Devin Nunes' bullshit in the house about FISA warrants, etc., I love this topic, thanks for teeing that one up!

The Fusion GPS investigation was originally funded by a "never Trumper" and the funding stopped after it was clear that Trump was the GOP candidate in May of 2016, and then the Dems took over. The man at Fusion GPS though who wanted to keep it going was Glenn Simpson, because of his concerns about Trump's "sinister" Russian ties, not as a partisan hack for Clinton: "I had no interest in working for Hillary fucking Clinton, I covered those people, Hillary and Bill Clinton for years. They were an old fashioned political machine." Simpson already had intelligence suggesting that the Russians might be seeking to influence the election on behalf of Trump before Simpson recruited Steele, hoping that Steele's history investigating Russian influence operations in western Europe would allow him to pick up intelligence on what the Russians were doing in the US, but he did not tell him the intelligence he already had that the Russians might be seeking to influence the election on behalf of Trump. He told Steele "Tell me what Trump's been doing over there" and they agreed to a 30 day contract with an option to renew for $30K. Steele was already working on projects in Russia for other clients involved in commercial litigation, and he though he could "easily hand this new assignment to his contacts in Russia whom he paid to search out information and prepare reports."

And from the New Yorker: "Within a few weeks, two or three of Steele’s long-standing collectors came back with reports drawn from Orbis’s larger network of sources. Steele looked at the material and, according to people familiar with the matter, asked himself, “Oh, my God—what is this?” He called in Burrows, who was normally unflappable. Burrows realized that they had a problem. As Simpson later put it, “We threw out a line in the water, and Moby-Dick came back.”

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/03/12/christopher-steele-the-man-behind-the-trump-dossier

So, let's star with you delineating the lies Steele told in the dossier? Also, don't know what you are talking about Steele leaking to Yahoo News? Everything I have ever read stated that Steele (who was the former head of Russia Desk at MI6) brought his raw intelligence to the FBI in July of 2016. Then after the election, he had his former mentor, Sir Andrew Wood, the former British Ambassador to Moscow, bring the dossier to McCain. McCain then brought it to Comey at the FBI, but Comey told him the FBI had possessed the Dossier since the summer. Then after Comey briefed Trump, the news leaked to CNN, and then supposedly McCain's aide David Kramer leaked to Buzzfeed, who then published the thing.


As far as your claims of the DOJ/FBI FISA warrants being illegal, please flush that theory out with sources for me, what you wrote doesn't make sense.
 
Lol he does look like he just found out he has to bring home a bad report card to an abusive parent.

I'm not saying he's thankful to Putin, I'm saying Putin could pull the plug on a good bit of his empire's funding keeping the business alive, as well as the secret of his poverty (and with Trump's vanity that alone would be powerful). With or without kompromat of the highly illegal sort, with or without collusion. My bet is on kompromat and collusion, but I think the former may and the later may not be proven to a legal standard.

Just saying it isn't implausible that personal business dealings alond could be enough for a person like Trump to sell out the US.

Yeah, I find it really hard to believe that given all the lies by everyone surrounding Trump when it comes to Russia, including to lies congress and to the special counsel, that there wasn't some quid pro quo talk with the Russians and some coordination, at least with Manafort, if not with Stone and Trump Jr (who Rep Jackie Spier has said lied to congress in his testimony).

I expect there is financial kompromat on Trump too, Steele had even come across Trump before in his investigation into an international gambling and money-laundering ring purportedly run by a suspected Russian organized-crime figure named Alimzhan Tokhtakhounov, who lived in Trump Tower and who showed up at the Miss Universe contest in Moscow, and sat near the pageant’s owner, Donald Trump, while Tokhtakhounov was a fugitive on a “red notice” calling for his arrest from Interpol.

The pee tape kompromat is funny and all, but Steele has said he is only 50/50 on it being true, and the intelligence could very well have just been a distortion of the true story of Trump taking some Azerbaijanis to a lewd Vegas show:

"in the early-morning hours of June 15, 2013, some five months before the alleged Moscow incident, Trump visited a Las Vegas night club called the Act that was infamous for its sexually explicit theatre shows. Among the skits regularly performed at the Act were two in which semi-nude women would simulate urination onstage. As Isikoff and Corn note, it is unclear whether these skits were performed on the night that Trump visited the club. But court records confirm that they were in the club’s regular repertoire.

The reason that court records exist at all is that the Act’s obscene entertainment was, at the time of Trump’s visit, the target of a joint undercover investigation by the Nevada Gaming Control Board and the club’s landlord, the Palazzo hotel and casino—which is owned by Sheldon Adelson, a major Republican Party donor. A few months after Trump visited the Act, a Nevada state judge issued an injunction against the club, shutting down its “lewd” and “offensive” performances. In the course of the legal wrangling, investigators submitted detailed descriptions of the the Act’s shows. These, according to court records, included “simulated masturbation, simulated use of narcotics, use of dildos, strap-on penises, simulated defecation, and simulated urination.” In one skit, titled “Hot for Teacher,” an actor in the role of a professor would write an obscene title for a lecture on a blackboard, after which female actors purporting to be college girls would disrobe and stand over the professor, appearing to urinate on him, before revealing a water bottle. In another skit, according to the court records, two women would drink from champagne flutes and snort a white powdery substance, after which they would undress, and one would simulate urinating on the other, who would catch the liquid in two wine glasses and then drink it."

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news...las-vegas-adds-intrigue-to-the-steele-dossier
 
Oh great, someone who wants to talk about the Steele Dossier, Devin Nunes' bullshit in the house about FISA warrants, etc., I love this topic, thanks for teeing that one up!
Of course the people that don't give a shit about the legal/security implications that Hillary's emails were hacked-

Want to ignore the content of the dossier and only talk about how how illegal and unfair it is.

Since it was just raw intel from Russian sources it was never expected to be 100% true. Steele himself gives a 50/50 that he pee tape exists for example (Yet somehow Trump still felt the need to falsely announce it couldn't be true because he didn't sleep in Moscow). Somehow though, even with Russian intelligence working to discredit its claims, things in it have only been confirmed over time- has anything in it been confirmed false?
 
Of course the people that don't give a shit about the legal/security implications that Hillary's emails were hacked-

Want to ignore the content of the dossier and only talk about how how illegal and unfair it is.

Since it was just raw intel from Russian sources it was never expected to be 100% true. Steele himself gives a 50/50 that he pee tape exists for example (Yet somehow Trump still felt the need to falsely announce it couldn't be true because he didn't sleep in Moscow). Somehow though, even with Russian intelligence working to discredit its claims, things in it have only been confirmed over time- has anything in it been confirmed false?

The biggest question is the Cohen in Prague thing, which I guess Cohen is still denying. There was an article from McClatchy in late December that would be a bombshell if true, but nobody else confirmed the story:

"A mobile phone traced to President Donald Trump’s former lawyer and “fixer” Michael Cohen briefly sent signals ricocheting off cell towers in the Prague area in late summer 2016, at the height of the presidential campaign, leaving an electronic record to support claims that Cohen met secretly there with Russian officials, four people with knowledge of the matter say.

During the same period of late August or early September, electronic eavesdropping by an Eastern European intelligence agency picked up a conversation among Russians, one of whom remarked that Cohen was in Prague, two people familiar with the incident said.

The dossier, which Trump has dismissed as “a pile of garbage,” said Cohen and one or more Kremlin officials huddled in or around the Czech capital to plot ways to limit discovery of the close “liaison” between the Trump campaign and Russia."

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/investigations/article219016820.html
 
Yeah, I find it really hard to believe that given all the lies by everyone surrounding Trump when it comes to Russia, including to lies congress and to the special counsel, that there wasn't some quid pro quo talk with the Russians and some coordination, at least with Manafort, if not with Stone and Trump Jr (who Rep Jackie Spier has said lied to congress in his testimony).

I expect there is financial kompromat on Trump too, Steele had even come across Trump before in his investigation into an international gambling and money-laundering ring purportedly run by a suspected Russian organized-crime figure named Alimzhan Tokhtakhounov, who lived in Trump Tower and who showed up at the Miss Universe contest in Moscow, and sat near the pageant’s owner, Donald Trump, while Tokhtakhounov was a fugitive on a “red notice” calling for his arrest from Interpol.

The pee tape kompromat is funny and all, but Steele has said he is only 50/50 on it being true, and the intelligence could very well have just been a distortion of the true story of Trump taking some Azerbaijanis to a lewd Vegas show:

"in the early-morning hours of June 15, 2013, some five months before the alleged Moscow incident, Trump visited a Las Vegas night club called the Act that was infamous for its sexually explicit theatre shows. Among the skits regularly performed at the Act were two in which semi-nude women would simulate urination onstage. As Isikoff and Corn note, it is unclear whether these skits were performed on the night that Trump visited the club. But court records confirm that they were in the club’s regular repertoire.

The reason that court records exist at all is that the Act’s obscene entertainment was, at the time of Trump’s visit, the target of a joint undercover investigation by the Nevada Gaming Control Board and the club’s landlord, the Palazzo hotel and casino—which is owned by Sheldon Adelson, a major Republican Party donor. A few months after Trump visited the Act, a Nevada state judge issued an injunction against the club, shutting down its “lewd” and “offensive” performances. In the course of the legal wrangling, investigators submitted detailed descriptions of the the Act’s shows. These, according to court records, included “simulated masturbation, simulated use of narcotics, use of dildos, strap-on penises, simulated defecation, and simulated urination.” In one skit, titled “Hot for Teacher,” an actor in the role of a professor would write an obscene title for a lecture on a blackboard, after which female actors purporting to be college girls would disrobe and stand over the professor, appearing to urinate on him, before revealing a water bottle. In another skit, according to the court records, two women would drink from champagne flutes and snort a white powdery substance, after which they would undress, and one would simulate urinating on the other, who would catch the liquid in two wine glasses and then drink it."

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news...las-vegas-adds-intrigue-to-the-steele-dossier
Didn't know about the show, interesting. I was thinking simulated urination was a euphemism for urination, but if is really a water bottle I don't see why they should shut it down. Sounds way more entertaining than your typical dead eyed stripper pole dances. Then again this is the Vegas strip, the dancers on average are probably doing some Cirque de Soleil shit.
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The biggest question is the Cohen in Prague thing, which I guess Cohen is still denying. There was an article from McClatchy in late December that would be a bombshell if true, but nobody else confirmed the story:

"A mobile phone traced to President Donald Trump’s former lawyer and “fixer” Michael Cohen briefly sent signals ricocheting off cell towers in the Prague area in late summer 2016, at the height of the presidential campaign, leaving an electronic record to support claims that Cohen met secretly there with Russian officials, four people with knowledge of the matter say.

During the same period of late August or early September, electronic eavesdropping by an Eastern European intelligence agency picked up a conversation among Russians, one of whom remarked that Cohen was in Prague, two people familiar with the incident said."


https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/investigations/article219016820.html
I wonder if they did confirm he was there if it would just be circumstantial without details of the meeting, like the Manafort cigar club meeting still appears to be? Or is Cohen in a position where he'd spill if prompted...
 
Yeah, I find it really hard to believe that given all the lies by everyone surrounding Trump when it comes to Russia, including to lies congress and to the special counsel, that there wasn't some quid pro quo talk with the Russians and some coordination, at least with Manafort, if not with Stone and Trump Jr (who Rep Jackie Spier has said lied to congress in his testimony).
Also yeah while I'm trying to be devil's advocate / steelman the case that Trump isn't compromised and didn't collude, with the sheer amount of contacts, lies and other coincidences are difficult to explain while making a parsimonious case.
 
Bitches will still be crying about Collusion when Trump is finishing up his second term in 6 years.
 
What are you a 13 year old girl? At least try to take a piece of what I said and address it.

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He has half of the WR on block like a 13 year old girl, so there's that. He also tried to troll ThePresObama on twitter, and posted it on this site, too.
 
No collusion
37 pages of bleeding
I bet people call for mueller to be fired
 
I think you are vastly overestimating Trump's sense of loyalty and graciousness for those that have lent him money, Trump is obviously compromised in some way when it comes to Russia. Beyond all of the facts behind the lies and known shadiness surrounding Russia before the election and after Comey's firing, at the expense of constant bad press, Trump has continued to question US intelligence in favor of Putin's "strong" denials, has hidden meeting with Putin from the press, hasn't shared the details of Putin meetings with people in his cabinet, has absconded with the interpreter's notes from those meetings, and has generally allowed himself to appear inferior and weak in comparison to the leader of a country with the GDP of New York State. Trump's whole identity is about showing strength and fighting for power, respect, and fear, but not once when it comes to Putin. His performance in Helsinki was shocking, after his private meeting with Putin he looked like a lumbering offensive lineman at Alabama after a tough film session with Coach Saban.

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Yup.

And Trump parrots almost every single Putin/Russia stance on world affairs. Anti Nato, disparage and destabilize Allies and make them question whether they have US support should they have conflict with Russia or others thus making them more likely to cede ground to Russia, cede ground to Russian control in prior strategic geographic areas despite the objection of everyone in the Intelligence community.

Trump has diverged from almost every prior established Republican position in those areas and if you put his stated objectives up for election in Russia he would win a runaway election. its almost as if they wrote them.
 
I dunno mate. https://www.justsecurity.org/62201/...eopardy-manaforts-sharing-data-russian-agent/

This article sums it up nicely. For it to be illegal, the data has to be used to influence ad buys or some other contribution;

or if it wasn't used, Manafort has to have requested that it be used to influence ad buys.

However, since Manafort was a campaign official, it doesn't matter if he did it as a 'private citizen' or whether Trump knew- it is still illegal if one of the above conditions are met.

The other weird thing is that they have to show Manafort was aware of those campaign finance laws, which seems weird because you don't get that ignorance excuse for almost any other crime.

Can any reasonable person admit that what Manafort did was likely illegal based on these laws? Sure, hard to argue it wasn't more likely than not that polling data was shared for some sort of election related activity, and whether Trump knew or Paul did it for personal enrichment doesn't matter. Not to mention he would rather stay in jail for the rest of his life instead of tell the truth about this exact subject.

That said though, with the evidence we are aware of it doesn't look like it is provably illegal.

The conservatives in this thread (and apologies if there are some that are being intellectually honest) are pretending "no publicly available legal standard evidence of collusion" is the same as "there was no collusion". That's about as disingenuous as saying Al Capone was not a gangster, only a tax evader and carried a gun one time.

However unless you have a source that shows it is illegal just to give polling data without the data being used, it cant be stated as fact that sharing the data was illegal.

I would need good odds to bet on this, because either Russians or Manafort or the witness they were tampering with would have to provide the evidence. They will never get anything out of the Russians, Manafort has already chosen life in prison over telling the truth, so who knows maybe the witness will flip. But I don't think there is a way on paper they could prove the polling data was used to Target ads, unless idk ads with something super super specific were bought that couldn't have been figured out without that data. Unlikely though.

Gates has already informed on the Russian and Manaforts meetings so I guess there's a chance he could provide/could have already provided the rest of the evidence.
it would have to go to court for a finding but what we know for fact is that Russia was already involved in an influence campaign to try and affect the US election in favour of Trump. Russia was already targeting key districts via social media and other to try and sway votes away from Hillary and to Trump. There is no way around then, that Manafort giving them key internal polling data, which exposes just that (where they are close, winning, losing, district by district) is legal. Even if they argue the Russians did not get a chance to use it, you still cannot give it to that group.
 
Lol he does look like he just found out he has to bring home a bad report card to an abusive parent.

I'm not saying he's thankful to Putin, I'm saying Putin could pull the plug on a good bit of his empire's funding keeping the business alive, as well as the secret of his poverty (and with Trump's vanity that alone would be powerful). With or without kompromat of the highly illegal sort, with or without collusion. My bet is on kompromat and collusion, but I think the former may and the later may not be proven to a legal standard.

Just saying it isn't implausible that personal business dealings alond could be enough for a person like Trump to sell out the US.
I don't think Trump cares one iota about the US beyond what he can make from it or how it makes him look..

He would 'stimulate' the economy with so much debt, so he can claim how great things are now without an ounce of care for the future disaster he is creating. He won't care as long as he pads his pockets and beside the Super rich do the best in a massive correction or crash, as they are the only ones with cash to deploy when things are 'down' as they eventually rebound.
 
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