Multiplat DOOM: The Dark Ages

[MWB1982]

I'd like to see Doom bring back something like this somehow. Make it a boss fight.

To me, he was the most evil Doom badguy and that design was crazy. Doom 3 had my favorite plot.

When this guy's head popped out the mouth of that skeleton dragon thing.. I was like "Oh Shit!" That design was badass

 

[Zer]

View attachment 1059185

I'd like to see Doom bring back something like this somehow. Make it a boss fight.

To me, he was the most evil Doom badguy and that design was crazy. Doom 3 had my favorite plot.

When this guy's head popped out the mouth of that skeleton dragon thing.. I was like "Oh Shit!" That design was badass

Perfect time for a UFC crossover

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Rather than start a new thread, thought it would be best to discuss this in this thread -

I don't 'get' Doom Eternal.

I've played Doom 2016 multiple times on both my gaming laptop & SeriesX and consider it to be one of the absolute best FPS campaigns I've ever played... and I've played alot.

Finally picked Doom Eternal for SeriesX at the end of last year, and... I played the first three levels and called it quits. Thought I'd give it a second shot and I'm on the verge of calling it quits again after three levels.


To me, everything except the graphics & sound is a major downgrade. They added too much to the gameplay to make it fluid while playing on a controller. It reminds me of Shadow of War - the sequel to Shadow of Mordor - and although it was so much bigger than the original there were too many gameplay & upgrade mechanics added that didn't sync well to the original formula that worked so well. Overall its a far weaker game in comparison to the original.

The 2016 game had the perfect combination of taking itself 'semi-seriously' with the levels & asthetic feeling & looking like a high-tech scientific facility on Mars, the minimal narrative that actually makes you want to learn more about it, and the monsters feel threatening. It was fun while being able to get engrossed in the experience.
With Doom Eternal, it feels like its a parody of the potential it had to take the awesome experience of the original Mars setting to the 'Hell on Earth' setting from Doom2. The monsters feel... plastic.
The levels feel like... videogame levels... with no authenticity or practicality with their design.

With the gameplay, the biggest aggrovation is the absurdly low ammo amounts you can carry for each weapon, so rather than using your two favorite guns for the battle arenas you have to use all of the guns... including the ones you don't care for... and even then you're sometimes running around while completely out of ammo looking for any laying around.

And who thought it was a great idea to vastly expand the platforming? It gets really old really quick.

Anyway, am I way off on this just based off the first three levels... or does it get better?

 

[rikwebb]

Rather than start a new thread, thought it would be best to discuss this in this thread -

I don't 'get' Doom Eternal.

I've played Doom 2016 multiple times on both my gaming laptop & SeriesX and consider it to be one of the absolute best FPS campaigns I've ever played... and I've played alot.

Finally picked Doom Eternal for SeriesX at the end of last year, and... I played the first three levels and called it quits. Thought I'd give it a second shot and I'm on the verge of calling it quits again after three levels.


To me, everything except the graphics & sound is a major downgrade. They added too much to the gameplay to make it fluid while playing on a controller. It reminds me of Shadow of War - the sequel to Shadow of Mordor - and although it was so much bigger than the original there were too many gameplay & upgrade mechanics added that didn't sync well to the original formula that worked so well. Overall its a far weaker game in comparison to the original.

The 2016 game had the perfect combination of taking itself 'semi-seriously' with the levels & asthetic feeling & looking like a high-tech scientific facility on Mars, the minimal narrative that actually makes you want to learn more about it, and the monsters feel threatening. It was fun while being able to get engrossed in the experience.
With Doom Eternal, it feels like its a parody of the potential it had to take the awesome experience of the original Mars setting to the 'Hell on Earth' setting from Doom2. The monsters feel... plastic.
The levels feel like... videogame levels... with no authenticity or practicality with their design.

With the gameplay, the biggest aggrovation is the absurdly low ammo amounts you can carry for each weapon, so rather than using your two favorite guns for the battle arenas you have to use all of the guns... including the ones you don't care for... and even then you're sometimes running around while completely out of ammo looking for any laying around.

And who thought it was a great idea to vastly expand the platforming? It gets really old really quick.

Anyway, am I way off on this just based off the first three levels... or does it get better?

I much preferred 2016 to Eternal but found Ammo wasn't really a problem due to the chainsaw auto refilling for one charge compared to 2016 where you needed to constantly look for fuel.

Ammo counts were a lot better though once the guns were upgraded

 

[GearSolidMetal]

I much preferred 2016 to Eternal but found Ammo wasn't really a problem due to the chainsaw auto refilling for one charge compared to 2016 where you needed to constantly look for fuel.

I basically never had to 'go looking' for ammo in 2016 and usually got through each combat encounter with two, maybe three, weapons.

In the 3 levels of Eternal I was doing it constantly, but I didn't realize the chainsaw auto-reloads for one charge. I'll keep that in mind.

Ammo counts were a lot better though once the guns were upgraded

Hmmmmm... alright I'll remember this.
But don't enemies get tougher, and I bet there's more enemies as you go through the game?

 

[rikwebb]

I basically never had to 'go looking' for ammo in 2016 and usually got through each combat encounter with two, maybe three, weapons.

In the 3 levels of Eternal I was doing it constantly, but I didn't realize the chainsaw auto-reloads for one charge. I'll keep that in mind.


Hmmmmm... alright I'll remember this.
But don't enemies get tougher, and I bet there's more enemies as you go through the game?

Yeah there are tougher bosses / enemies but nothing too bad.

There are times where it does feel like you have to use everything at your disposal like during the Slayer Gates for the Empyrean keys

But I will warn you now if you hate the platforming after 3 levels it's going to get worse as you go through

 

[GearSolidMetal]

But I will warn you now if you hate the platforming after 3 levels it's going to get worse as you go through

*Sigh*

This is the type of shit that makes me suspect there was some major management overhauls in a development studio in-between game releases.

"Here, everyone liked the limited platforming in Doom 2016, so lets multiply that by 15 and everyone will then love it."

I get that there has to be some pacing with game levels and they can't just be combat arenas next to combat arenas, but it should be a high priority for the level designers to NOT make the traversal from one section of a level to another section being *Annoying or *Tedious.

 

[KidBaize]

Rather than start a new thread, thought it would be best to discuss this in this thread -

I don't 'get' Doom Eternal.

I've played Doom 2016 multiple times on both my gaming laptop & SeriesX and consider it to be one of the absolute best FPS campaigns I've ever played... and I've played alot.

Finally picked Doom Eternal for SeriesX at the end of last year, and... I played the first three levels and called it quits. Thought I'd give it a second shot and I'm on the verge of calling it quits again after three levels.


To me, everything except the graphics & sound is a major downgrade. They added too much to the gameplay to make it fluid while playing on a controller. It reminds me of Shadow of War - the sequel to Shadow of Mordor - and although it was so much bigger than the original there were too many gameplay & upgrade mechanics added that didn't sync well to the original formula that worked so well. Overall its a far weaker game in comparison to the original.

The 2016 game had the perfect combination of taking itself 'semi-seriously' with the levels & asthetic feeling & looking like a high-tech scientific facility on Mars, the minimal narrative that actually makes you want to learn more about it, and the monsters feel threatening. It was fun while being able to get engrossed in the experience.
With Doom Eternal, it feels like its a parody of the potential it had to take the awesome experience of the original Mars setting to the 'Hell on Earth' setting from Doom2. The monsters feel... plastic.
The levels feel like... videogame levels... with no authenticity or practicality with their design.

With the gameplay, the biggest aggrovation is the absurdly low ammo amounts you can carry for each weapon, so rather than using your two favorite guns for the battle arenas you have to use all of the guns... including the ones you don't care for... and even then you're sometimes running around while completely out of ammo looking for any laying around.

And who thought it was a great idea to vastly expand the platforming? It gets really old really quick.

Anyway, am I way off on this just based off the first three levels... or does it get better?

I love 2016 and shared many of your complaints but Eternal eventually won me over. IMO the game doesn't even start until you get the super shotgun in level 3 so you're still early.

The best advice I can give is to use all your equipment as soon as it becomes available and learn to quick switch (or quick swap) between two weapons. Vital for controller players.

So chainsaw fodder for ammo and flame belch enemies for armor. Constantly. And also use your ice bomb and frag grenades whenever available. This is the new combat loop and it becomes addictive after a while.

And if you didn't pick it already in level 2, unlock the Air Control rune at one of these stations. It's way better than the one in 2016 and allows you to steer your character while in the air. Very useful and much more fun than vanilla movement.

 

[KidBaize]

Yeah there are tougher bosses / enemies but nothing too bad.

There are times where it does feel like you have to use everything at your disposal like during the Slayer Gates for the Empyrean keys

But I will warn you now if you hate the platforming after 3 levels it's going to get worse as you go through

I hate platforming but honestly it isn't difficult in this game. No worse than 2016.

 

[MWB1982]

Later on in Doom Eternal, the platforming turns into puzzles you have to solve in mid air or die. It was so stupid.

I saw the video on Dark Ages, they are getting rid of the platforming.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

I saw the video on Dark Ages, they are getting rid of the platforming.

Thank god.

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

Rather than start a new thread, thought it would be best to discuss this in this thread -

I don't 'get' Doom Eternal.

I've played Doom 2016 multiple times on both my gaming laptop & SeriesX and consider it to be one of the absolute best FPS campaigns I've ever played... and I've played alot.

Finally picked Doom Eternal for SeriesX at the end of last year, and... I played the first three levels and called it quits. Thought I'd give it a second shot and I'm on the verge of calling it quits again after three levels.


To me, everything except the graphics & sound is a major downgrade. They added too much to the gameplay to make it fluid while playing on a controller. It reminds me of Shadow of War - the sequel to Shadow of Mordor - and although it was so much bigger than the original there were too many gameplay & upgrade mechanics added that didn't sync well to the original formula that worked so well. Overall its a far weaker game in comparison to the original.

The 2016 game had the perfect combination of taking itself 'semi-seriously' with the levels & asthetic feeling & looking like a high-tech scientific facility on Mars, the minimal narrative that actually makes you want to learn more about it, and the monsters feel threatening. It was fun while being able to get engrossed in the experience.
With Doom Eternal, it feels like its a parody of the potential it had to take the awesome experience of the original Mars setting to the 'Hell on Earth' setting from Doom2. The monsters feel... plastic.
The levels feel like... videogame levels... with no authenticity or practicality with their design.

With the gameplay, the biggest aggrovation is the absurdly low ammo amounts you can carry for each weapon, so rather than using your two favorite guns for the battle arenas you have to use all of the guns... including the ones you don't care for... and even then you're sometimes running around while completely out of ammo looking for any laying around.

And who thought it was a great idea to vastly expand the platforming? It gets really old really quick.

Anyway, am I way off on this just based off the first three levels... or does it get better?

So I really liked Doom Eternal, and it’s probably my second favourite game of the last five years behind Elden Ring, but that being said I definitely prefer 2016 as well. It’s way too “arcadey” and frankly it doubles or triples down on all the aspects of Doom 2016 that made me feel that despite being a great game I nonetheless feel like it’s “Doom in name only”. OG Doom plays very little like 2016, and basically nothing at all like Eternal. Eternal forces you to play in basically one way - it’s kind of like the complete opposite of something like Elden Ring where you can play so differently depending on character build and gear, but for Doom Eternal if you don’t play a particular way (ie use this particular weapon for this particular enemy and shoot them in this particular spot) the game’s practically unplayable. I think the best evidence of how wildly different Eternal plays from classic Doom was when John Romero streamed himself playing Eternal at launch. Romero was famously good at OG Doom, but he got killed like 45 times on the first level of Eternal because he refused to confine himself to its strict rules.

I don’t think management changed at id software between 2016 and Eternal as the two top guys there, Hugo Martin and Marty Stratton were and still are in charge for both titles (as well as Dark Ages). But for whatever reason I guess they just felt they particularly liked those aspects of 2016 and thought expanding on them for Eternal was the way to go. Luckily they seem very willing to experiment and try new things rather than doubling down again and just making Doom Eternal 2.

 

[KidBaize]

I don’t think management changed at id software between 2016 and Eternal as the two top guys there, Hugo Martin and Marty Stratton were and still are in charge for both titles (as well as Dark Ages). But for whatever reason I guess they just felt they particularly liked those aspects of 2016 and thought expanding on them for Eternal was the way to go. Luckily they seem very willing to experiment and try new things rather than doubling down again and just making Doom Eternal 2.

Dark Ages should really have been a new Quake. Doom isn't dark fantasy.

 

[Dizzy]

Complaining about the platforming in a game as stellar as Eternal is the worst kind of criticism. Is it valid? Sure, if it bothers you that much. Does it matter? Not really. It’s such a small part of the experience and more often than not is reinforcing the movement you should be practicing to survive at UV and Nightmare. Eternal is incredibly intentional in everything it does.

It’s the most visceral and satisfying gaming experience I think I’ve ever had. Outside of a few enemies that do require specific attacks with a select variety of weapons, the game is as open as you want to make it. To get to the heights of it you do have to learn its rules but getting through the toughest parts is almost always left up to how you want to play it.

It’s a pinnacle of game design and a modern classic.

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

Dark Ages should really have been a new Quake. Doom isn't dark fantasy.

I would have loved a new single player Quake game, in particular revisiting the world of Quake 1 as opposed to another one involving the Strogg from Quake 2 and 4, but I think on the basis of brand recognition alone they probably opted to stick with Doom. After 25 years since Quake 3 it’s kind of a niche, forgotten franchise.

 

[MWB1982]

I do hope they add online multiplayer like Call of Duty Zombies but instead of zombies, it will be waves of demons.

I feel like they won't do it though

 

[KidBaize]

I would have loved a new single player Quake game, in particular revisiting the world of Quake 1 as opposed to another one involving the Strogg from Quake 2 and 4, but I think on the basis of brand recognition alone they probably opted to stick with Doom. After 25 years since Quake 3 it’s kind of a niche, forgotten franchise.

Yeah it's most likely branding. Shame though. Perfect time for a reboot.

 

[KidBaize]

Later on in Doom Eternal, the platforming turns into puzzles you have to solve in mid air or die. It was so stupid.

I saw the video on Dark Ages, they are getting rid of the platforming.

There is that one trick you have to do in urdak that kind of sucks.

 

[MWB1982]

Quick vid listing the improvements in Doom Dark Age

It's going to be darker/less colorful

No crazy platforming

Instead of going from arena to arena, the demons will be spread out everywhere but I bet there will still be arenas because those were fun

Bigger, non linear levels

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Complaining about the platforming in a game as stellar as Eternal is the worst kind of criticism. Is it valid? Sure, if it bothers you that much. Does it matter? Not really. It’s such a small part of the experience and more often than not is reinforcing the movement you should be practicing to survive at UV and Nightmare. Eternal is incredibly intentional in everything it does.

It’s the most visceral and satisfying gaming experience I think I’ve ever had. Outside of a few enemies that do require specific attacks with a select variety of weapons, the game is as open as you want to make it. To get to the heights of it you do have to learn its rules but getting through the toughest parts is almost always left up to how you want to play it.

It’s a pinnacle of game design and a modern classic.

I played Doom 2016 first on PC & later on SeriesX and I found the transition to be pleasant from Keyboard&Mouse to XBox controller.

With Eternal, with the extra mechanics like the flame thrower, grenades, and hitting the D-Pad to switch grenades... there's too many ocassions during the very fast combat you're forced to take your thumbs off the thumbsticks, and those tenths of seconds are extremely important.

That's why I'm betting its a significantly improved experience for you PC players over the consoles.

Further bragging rights for you PC Master Race gamers.