Multiplat DOOM: The Dark Ages

[mixmastermo]

Rather than start a new thread, thought it would be best to discuss this in this thread -

I don't 'get' Doom Eternal.

I've played Doom 2016 multiple times on both my gaming laptop & SeriesX and consider it to be one of the absolute best FPS campaigns I've ever played... and I've played alot.

Finally picked Doom Eternal for SeriesX at the end of last year, and... I played the first three levels and called it quits. Thought I'd give it a second shot and I'm on the verge of calling it quits again after three levels.


To me, everything except the graphics & sound is a major downgrade. They added too much to the gameplay to make it fluid while playing on a controller. It reminds me of Shadow of War - the sequel to Shadow of Mordor - and although it was so much bigger than the original there were too many gameplay & upgrade mechanics added that didn't sync well to the original formula that worked so well. Overall its a far weaker game in comparison to the original.

The 2016 game had the perfect combination of taking itself 'semi-seriously' with the levels & asthetic feeling & looking like a high-tech scientific facility on Mars, the minimal narrative that actually makes you want to learn more about it, and the monsters feel threatening. It was fun while being able to get engrossed in the experience.
With Doom Eternal, it feels like its a parody of the potential it had to take the awesome experience of the original Mars setting to the 'Hell on Earth' setting from Doom2. The monsters feel... plastic.
The levels feel like... videogame levels... with no authenticity or practicality with their design.

With the gameplay, the biggest aggrovation is the absurdly low ammo amounts you can carry for each weapon, so rather than using your two favorite guns for the battle arenas you have to use all of the guns... including the ones you don't care for... and even then you're sometimes running around while completely out of ammo looking for any laying around.

And who thought it was a great idea to vastly expand the platforming? It gets really old really quick.

Anyway, am I way off on this just based off the first three levels... or does it get better?

I played Doom 2016 first on PC & later on SeriesX and I found the transition to be pleasant from Keyboard&Mouse to XBox controller.

With Eternal, with the extra mechanics like the flame thrower, grenades, and hitting the D-Pad to switch grenades... there's too many ocassions during the very fast combat you're forced to take your thumbs off the thumbsticks, and those tenths of seconds are extremely important.

That's why I'm betting its a significantly improved experience for you PC players over the consoles.

Further bragging rights for you PC Master Race gamers.

I played Doom Eternal on PC with a controller.. come at me

Anyway, you are correct that you really do have to use all the weapons in the game. You can't get by with just using your favorite(s). It does get better after 3 levels in the sense that you will access upgrades to your suit and weapons and these add layers to the gameplay. id designed it in a way so you can't just blast through the game with the super shotgun- as they found a lot of people did that with 2016. Different enemies have different weaknesses and require different strategies as well.

You probably haven't even faced this guy yet.. game kicks it up a notch once you do

 

[deviake]

I would would rather be water boarded whilst a car battery is hooked up to my nuts in a thunderstorm in the middle of a field with a lightning rod in my butthole than play 2016 or Eternal on controller.

 

[mixmastermo]

I would would rather be water boarded whilst a car battery is hooked up to my nuts in a thunderstorm in the middle of a field with a lightning rod in my butthole than play 2016 or Eternal on controller.

blah blah blah blah

People who say this kind of stuff just like the ease of use of the mouse so they can point and click on their targets. This is not comfortable but it does make the games easier. If you wanna sit back with a controller you will have to take time to learn to use the thumbsticks.. it's a skill and I respect those who have mastered playing with thumbsticks much more than those who use a mouse to point and click on their targets.

Saying kb+m is better is the equivalent of saying BJJ with a gi is so much better than the guys who use BJJ with no gi in MMA. You're using a crutch to your advantage and pretending it is superior

 

[deviake]

blah blah blah blah

People who say this kind of stuff just like the ease of use of the mouse so they can point and click on their targets. This is not comfortable but it does make the games easier. If you wanna sit back with a controller you will have to take time to learn to use the thumbsticks.. it's a skill and I respect those who have mastered playing with thumbsticks much more than those who use a mouse to point and click on their targets.

Saying kb+m is better is the equivalent of saying BJJ with a gi is so much better than the guys who use BJJ with no gi in MMA. You're using a crutch to your advantage and pretending it is superior

 

[KidBaize]

I would would rather be water boarded whilst a car battery is hooked up to my nuts in a thunderstorm in the middle of a field with a lightning rod in my butthole than play 2016 or Eternal on controller.

Some people pay for action like that.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

blah blah blah blah

People who say this kind of stuff just like the ease of use of the mouse so they can point and click on their targets. This is not comfortable but it does make the games easier. If you wanna sit back with a controller you will have to take time to learn to use the thumbsticks.. it's a skill and I respect those who have mastered playing with thumbsticks much more than those who use a mouse to point and click on their targets.

Saying kb+m is better is the equivalent of saying BJJ with a gi is so much better than the guys who use BJJ with no gi in MMA. You're using a crutch to your advantage and pretending it is superior

Hate to take their side on this, but different genres of games are absolutely superior on controllers or KB&M.

FPS games are without question or debate better on KB&M, but there's a few FPS games on controller that come close but most of the time they use lock-on. There's not a single competitive CS:GO player on the planet that would play on any controller over KB&M.

And on the other side of the trend, fighting & racing games are definitely better on controllers than KB&M.

Besides those (off the top of my head) its all about what every individual gamer prefers.

 

[Dizzy]

I played Doom 2016 first on PC & later on SeriesX and I found the transition to be pleasant from Keyboard&Mouse to XBox controller.

With Eternal, with the extra mechanics like the flame thrower, grenades, and hitting the D-Pad to switch grenades... there's too many ocassions during the very fast combat you're forced to take your thumbs off the thumbsticks, and those tenths of seconds are extremely important.

That's why I'm betting its a significantly improved experience for you PC players over the consoles.

Further bragging rights for you PC Master Race gamers.

I played on PS5 and PC and I’m not sure how controller players deal on the highest difficulties. There is so much to manage and the snap and accuracy it takes just felt like it was almost mandatory.

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

I played on PS5 and PC and I’m not sure how controller players deal on the highest difficulties. There is so much to manage and the snap and accuracy it takes just felt like it was almost mandatory.

I just flat out couldn’t. I played on PS5 and could do the base game at Ultra Violence but TAG 1 and 2 I could only do at Hurt Me Plenty.

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

Rip and tear!

New DOOM title coming next year. Fuck yeah.

Origin story? The reason the original doom was so great was there was basically no story. It was a straight ahead action game. Iirc you got about two paragraphs at the beginning and two paragraphs at the end.

 

[deviake]

Some people pay for action like that.

Those people brag about playing high demand fps games on controller. Probably also play fighting and racing games with a KB&M and brag about it

 

[KidBaize]

I played on PS5 and PC and I’m not sure how controller players deal on the highest difficulties. There is so much to manage and the snap and accuracy it takes just felt like it was almost mandatory.

No way. I finished extra life mode and both dlc on nightmare and I can't imagine even making it to cultist base on kbm. Zero chance. This is all just anti gamepad propaganda.

 

[KidBaize]

Those people brag about playing high demand fps games on controller. Probably also play fighting and racing games with a KB&M and brag about it

Kbm being superior to controller is just a myth. Let's look at it scientifically.

Why do we play games? How do we measure its level of goodness?

Well for most people gaming is to have fun. And to measure its utility we could compare levels of relaxation and leisure. How can kbm be superior to controller when you need physio to recover from all your gaming injuries? Social media is filled with kbm players talking about their wrist injuries and sharing their recovery routines.

KBM players when they're not gaming:

Vs

Controller players when they're not gaming:

I think the results speak for themselves.

 

[mixmastermo]

Kbm being superior to controller is just a myth. Let's look at it scientifically.

Why do we play games? How do we measure its level of goodness?

Well for most people gaming is to have fun. And to measure its utility we could compare levels of relaxation and leisure. How can kbm be superior to controller when you need physio to recover from all your gaming injuries? Social media is filled with kbm players talking about their wrist injuries and sharing their recovery routines.

KBM players when they're not gaming:

Vs

Controller players when they're not gaming:

I think the results speak for themselves.

EXACTLY. We must be kindred spirits

Those people brag about playing high demand fps games on controller. Probably also play fighting and racing games with a KB&M and brag about it

Look, it's not our fault you haven't gotten gud yet.

We wouldn't have even been talking about this if you didn't bring up the fact you cringe at the idea of playing Doom with a controller. I've done it, @KidBaize has done it.. not for everybody, fine.. but ya'll make it seem like we are inferior for being able to keep up with the fast action in high demand games without the aid of a pointer.

 

[SwamiLeoni]

Complaining about the platforming in a game as stellar as Eternal is the worst kind of criticism. Is it valid? Sure, if it bothers you that much. Does it matter? Not really. It’s such a small part of the experience and more often than not is reinforcing the movement you should be practicing to survive at UV and Nightmare. Eternal is incredibly intentional in everything it does.

It’s the most visceral and satisfying gaming experience I think I’ve ever had. Outside of a few enemies that do require specific attacks with a select variety of weapons, the game is as open as you want to make it. To get to the heights of it you do have to learn its rules but getting through the toughest parts is almost always left up to how you want to play it.

It’s a pinnacle of game design and a modern classic.

Yea, the platforming at first was a bit confusing but after a few attempts and that upgrade, it was completely manageable and accounted for 1% of total gameplay.

It makes sense to run out of ammo in the beginning when you’re at your weakest. As the game progresses they give you multiple ways to gain ammo and I rarely if ever ran out. The game makes sure to give you almost alil upgrades by end game.

The biggest flaw, imo, is the weapon wheel on consoles. There’s just not an efficient way to move between weapons.

 

[deviake]

Yea, the platforming at first was a bit confusing but after a few attempts and that upgrade, it was completely manageable and accounted for 1% of total gameplay.

It makes sense to run out of ammo in the beginning when you’re at your weakest. As the game progresses they give you multiple ways to gain ammo and I rarely if ever ran out. The game makes sure to give you almost alil upgrades by end game.

The biggest flaw, imo, is the weapon wheel on consoles. There’s just not an efficient way to move between weapons.

Yeah, I'm going to sound elitist but a lotta the complaints I see about Eternal are skill issues. I'd same I'm about average, just saiyan though. That said I get it but I'm a sucker for a frenetic pace and I really like platformers so my bias is strong. Eternal does have its flaws though and is a big departure from old Doom and 2016 so I get it.

Dark Ages looks more throwback for sure while introducing new elements like the mechs and dragon and I think if done right will be amazing.

 

[Dizzy]

 

[Zazen]

Yeah it’s one of four games. Others being that new IP I forget the name but it looked cool, expedition 33 and supposedly a new entry in a long running Japanese franchise as the mystery game. Should be a cool direct even for someone that doesn’t own an Xbox. I just hope doom and expedition 33 don’t release too close together but I have a feeling they will lol. I’m betting doom for a may release

 

[HHJ]

The reason the original doom was so great was there was basically no story.

That wasnt the reason at all.


When Doom came out there probably wasnt even room to fit a story into a game like that anyway. For technical reasons.

It was a straight ahead action game because that's all it probably could be.

It doesnt need a story but I'm ok with them putting one in.

The problem with Doom Eternal was the previews used the story to push the game trailer hard, and that made people excited.

But really the story in the game doesnt really go much past what's seen in the trailer to be honest.

It's just sort of there and gets lost in the sauce. It just makes me think it could be done better. Without getting in the way of the game of course.

Samuel Hayden was a great character in (2016) and im glad they can come up with stuff like that.

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

That wasnt the reason at all.


When Doom came out there probably wasnt even room to fit a story into a game like that anyway. For technical reasons.

It was a straight ahead action game because that's all it probably could be.

It doesnt need a story but I'm ok with them putting one in.

The problem with Doom Eternal was the previews used the story to push the game trailer hard, and that made people excited.

But really the story in the game doesnt really go much past what's seen in the trailer to be honest.

It's just sort of there and gets lost in the sauce. It just makes me think it could be done better. Without getting in the way of the game of course.

Samuel Hayden was a great character in (2016) and im glad they can come up with stuff like that.

When Doom was originally being developed by id software Tom Hall wanted it to be narrative heavy actually but that was vetoed by John Carmack who famously said “Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important”.

 

[HHJ]

When Doom was originally being developed by id software Tom Hall wanted it to be narrative heavy actually but that was vetoed by John Carmack who famously said “Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important”.

in 1993 what could they really have done anyway other than write some shit in the instruction manual? lol