Law Don't let your kids chemically transition

Lubaolong said:
Framing transphobia as a debate is dishonest. I'm not debating because there is no debate. It's an attack. Just like homosexuals were (and still are) attacked over their rights, you and others are attacking transgender people. This time it's not about the right to marry or adopt kids but the right to life-saving medical treatment and whether or not their identity is a trend. Your "trans debate" nonsense is not done in good faith. You're just being an asshole and trying to push these kids out of view and ensure they don't have the same basic human rights as you.
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Matters of science are always up for debate. Science, by its very nature, can never be settled. This can be true for issues that have remained scientific dogma for hundreds of years, and it is certainly true for scientific fields that are in their infancy.

When someone says that "there is no debate" with respect to their position, what they are really saying is that their position is a religious one, not a scientific one. Scientific claims invite debate as being an essential good of the scientific process. Religious claims treat debate as heresy.
 
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Lubaolong said:
Framing transphobia as a debate is dishonest. I'm not debating because there is no debate. It's an attack. Just like homosexuals were (and still are) attacked over their rights, you and others are attacking transgender people. This time it's not about the right to marry or adopt kids but the right to life-saving medical treatment and whether or not their identity is a trend. Your "trans debate" nonsense is not done in good faith. You're just being an asshole and trying to push these kids out of view and ensure they don't have the same basic human rights as you.
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FFS imagine actually believing this.

This thread is supposed to be about whether parents should allow their kids to be fucking lab rats and pumped full of drugs at a young age to halt their body's normal progression. And then people like you hide behind "But but but there are doctors involved in the process that know this stuff and are helping guide and educate!!!" As if having a medical degree makes you some sort of untouchable visionary who can know what kind of downstream ramifications this will have. And that's IF those doctors are actually pristine of heart and have no selfish intentions. Because...hey...wonder who makes those puberty blocking drugs? And the drugs that these kids would likely have to take down the road if they decide "Whoops! I was wrong....I actually AM a boy!" I mean...drug companies would never have any influence over the medical community at all would they? It's not like we have an opioid epidemic or anything with the main driver being drug companies profiting off those things being given out like candy by doctors everywhere.

You want to try to dive into every mind and act like this specific topic has "no debate"...and do it by hiding behind "If you aren't for giving kids these drugs...you're transphobic!!!" Nope. If a kid who's a biological male wants to wear dresses and makeup and live as a girl...go for it. I don't understand it, but I don't have to. Treat the kid with respect like you would anyone else. Call the kid by whatever name they tell you to call them. Basically, be a decent human being.

That you'd sit there and act like it's OTHERS warping this discussion is so utterly fucked up I can barely find words. Shame on you.
 
Kirra said:
If you were living 70 years ago you'd be saying that they are though.
<{outtahere}>
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Gays have been around forever though, they even talked about them in the bible. It's a natural phenomenon, Trans? Not so much. The closest thing to a trans in the history books is maybe when the likes of Nero castrated a 12-year-old boy and made him his wife. A lot of similarities between the last days of Rome and current western civilization tbf.
 
King Joffery said:
Gays have been around forever though, they even talked about them in the bible. It's a natural phenomenon, Trans? Not so much. The closest thing to a trans in the history books is maybe when the likes of Nero castrated a 12-year-old boy and made him his wife. A lot of similarities between the last days of Rome and current western civilization tbf.
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Sure buddy
Transgender people are known to have existed since ancient times. A wide range of societies had traditional third gender roles, or otherwise accepted trans people in some form.​
 
sangreporsangre said:
Isn't it disgusting? Imagine that these soulless butchers do that to some mentally disturbed person based on the fakest trend we've probably seen in our lives.
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It's crazy it's even legal. I'm generally all for letting adults do whatever they want as long as they aren't hurting anyone else but I draw the line at extreme body mutilation where they clearly are hurting themselves. Everyone would quite rightly be outraged if a doctor agreed to amputate the legs of someone who suffers from BIID but for some reason, extreme body mutilation is okay if it loosely falls within the trans ideology.
 
Kirra said:
You know, some of us actually view gay people as equals and wouldn't be offended when called gay. Neither would we use that as an insult, because how is that insulting to someone?

Might as well be insulting people by calling them left handed, it doesn't quite work unless they believe that being left handed is somehow negative.

If someone insinuates that you're gay and that bothers you, then you are the problem, not them.
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It doesn’t bother me to be called that it’s just a cheap and incredibly transparent tactic. I’m bothered by how lame it is, yet @Lubaolong had it all ready to go and provided links (?)lmao.

Im still waiting for someone to explain how me being against these practices is somehow homophobic or anything of the sort.

And it’s really crazy to me that somehow, these people legitimately want to die on the hill of pushing these treatments on children. And the only people against it just hate gays. It’s such a wild ass trash level argument it doesn’t even really deserve a response. Actually it’s lower than trash, it’s sewage level.

If you have kids, have a lot of kids in your family, ever worked with kids or ever known a kid to have a rough hand in life, it’s not hard to empathize. We were all kids at one point, and it’s easy to see how one could be misled at that age. All of these apply to me or someone in my family. I shouldn’t have to justify why the well-being of these people matter to me. And adults framing their politics as “science” when it’s really their religion is garbage. Shouting down and insulting people who disagree with you while claiming to be the superior in logic and ethics is garbage and lazy. Doing those things while hiding like your intentions like a coward is even worse.
 
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King Joffery said:
Gays have been around forever though, they even talked about them in the bible. It's a natural phenomenon, Trans? Not so much. The closest thing to a trans in the history books is maybe when the likes of Nero castrated a 12-year-old boy and made him his wife. A lot of similarities between the last days of Rome and current western civilization tbf.
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Trans and non binary people have also been around since forever. Just because people didn't teach it to you in school, doesn't mean that it's not true.

There is extensive documentation out there about trans and non binary people existing across different times and cultures. They are as much a natural variation of human as people with green eyes or people who are left handed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_in_Bugis_society

"In contrast to the gender binary, Bugis society recognizes five genders: makkunrai, oroané, bissu, calabai, and calalai.[6] The concept of five genders has been a key part of their culture for at least six centuries, according to anthropologist Sharyn Graham Davies, citing similar traditions in Thailand, Malaysia, India and Bangladesh.[7]

Oroané are comparable to cisgender men, makkunrai to cisgender women, calalai to transgender men, and calabai to transgender women,[6] while bissu are androgynous or intersex and revered shamans or community priests.[7]

In daily social life, the bissu, the calabai, and the calalai may enter the dwelling places and the villages of both men and women.[5]"
 
Kirra said:
Trans and non binary people have also been around since forever. Just because people didn't teach it to you in school, doesn't mean that it's not true.

There is extensive documentation out there about trans and non binary people existing across different times and cultures. They are as much a natural variation of human as people with green eyes or people who are left handed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_in_Bugis_society

"In contrast to the gender binary, Bugis society recognizes five genders: makkunrai, oroané, bissu, calabai, and calalai.[6] The concept of five genders has been a key part of their culture for at least six centuries, according to anthropologist Sharyn Graham Davies, citing similar traditions in Thailand, Malaysia, India and Bangladesh.[7]

Oroané are comparable to cisgender men, makkunrai to cisgender women, calalai to transgender men, and calabai to transgender women,[6] while bissu are androgynous or intersex and revered shamans or community priests.[7]

In daily social life, the bissu, the calabai, and the calalai may enter the dwelling places and the villages of both men and women.[5]"
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There is no such thing as non binary, when a system is binary.
 
salamander said:
Go to the thread about the kid punching the cops. That should bring you up to date.
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I have not seen nor heard of this thread. But sure, if you want to drop I will also let it go. It's one of those days.
nevermind-ignore-it.gif
 
EndlessCritic said:
Biological sex is not perfectly binary. Intersex individuals exist, and our laws should accommodate them.
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Sadly not. Although it'd take a lot to convince me that the mixups should be a recognisable and positive identity, as opposed to a medical condition that needs to be treated as best we're able. A genuine issue when it comes to women's sports though I believe. Wouldn't be great if women's athletics were dominated by an intersex elite.
 
EndlessCritic said:
Biological sex is not perfectly binary. Intersex individuals exist, and our laws should accommodate them.
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Intersex are an anomaly of the binary system. It's simply a developmental stage gone wrong. Like people born with three legs because of a developmental mutation. And you don't go around calling three legged people a different gender. There's only male and female, and developmental mutations of that binary. That's it.
 
mkess101 said:
FFS imagine actually believing this.

This thread is supposed to be about whether parents should allow their kids to be fucking lab rats and pumped full of drugs at a young age to halt their body's normal progression. And then people like you hide behind "But but but there are doctors involved in the process that know this stuff and are helping guide and educate!!!" As if having a medical degree makes you some sort of untouchable visionary who can know what kind of downstream ramifications this will have. And that's IF those doctors are actually pristine of heart and have no selfish intentions. Because...hey...wonder who makes those puberty blocking drugs? And the drugs that these kids would likely have to take down the road if they decide "Whoops! I was wrong....I actually AM a boy!" I mean...drug companies would never have any influence over the medical community at all would they? It's not like we have an opioid epidemic or anything with the main driver being drug companies profiting off those things being given out like candy by doctors everywhere.

You want to try to dive into every mind and act like this specific topic has "no debate"...and do it by hiding behind "If you aren't for giving kids these drugs...you're transphobic!!!" Nope. If a kid who's a biological male wants to wear dresses and makeup and live as a girl...go for it. I don't understand it, but I don't have to. Treat the kid with respect like you would anyone else. Call the kid by whatever name they tell you to call them. Basically, be a decent human being.

That you'd sit there and act like it's OTHERS warping this discussion is so utterly fucked up I can barely find words. Shame on you.
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Mental Health Outcomes in Transgender and Nonbinary Youths Receiving Gender-Affirming Care
"Question Is gender-affirming care for transgender and nonbinary (TNB) youths associated with changes in depression, anxiety, and suicidality?

Findings In this prospective cohort of 104 TNB youths aged 13 to 20 years, receipt of gender-affirming care, including puberty blockers and gender-affirming hormones, was associated with 60% lower odds of moderate or severe depression and 73% lower odds of suicidality over a 12-month follow-up.

Meaning This study found that access to gender-affirming care was associated with mitigation of mental health disparities among TNB youths over 1 year; given this population's high rates of adverse mental health outcomes, these data suggest that access to pharmacological interventions may be associated with improved mental health among TNB youths over a short period."

The willful ignorance ITT for the sake of trashing non-binary gender is staggering. Enjoy your whinefest but know you have no idea what you are talking about.
 
Fugazy said:
What rights do intersex people not have?

Genuinely asking.
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“2021 and 2022 have been record-breaking years for anti-transgender legislation, and the majority of it specifically focuses on trans young people and students. Many of these legislative and governmental efforts aim to criminalize gender-affirming care for trans youth,” said Tordoff. “Given what we know about the importance of timely access to this care for young people, if these laws take effect, the consequences could result in lost lives and incredibly negative impacts on the wellbeing of trans youth and their families.”
 
Andy Capp said:
“2021 and 2022 have been record-breaking years for anti-transgender legislation, and the majority of it specifically focuses on trans young people and students. Many of these legislative and governmental efforts aim to criminalize gender-affirming care for trans youth,” said Tordoff. “Given what we know about the importance of timely access to this care for young people, if these laws take effect, the consequences could result in lost lives and incredibly negative impacts on the wellbeing of trans youth and their families.”
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This is a vague quote about trans people.

I am asking about intersex. Sincerely.
 
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