Don't Get Injured While Training for A Fight, UFC Will Cut You

[TheMMAnalyst]

I don't know where you've gotten this information from, seeing as PRIDE didn't usually finalize the cards until about a week before the event.

We'd often find out who was fighting by seeing which fighters turned up at the airport in Japan.

I've listened to multiple podcasts with guys who fought in Japan for PRIDE and also have read a ton about the shady backstage stuff; many guys, even top guys like Rampage, got offered short-notice fights frequently. Tons of guys in PRIDE except for the biggest stars were fighting on 4-6 weeks notice and it wasn't even considered short-notice, it was considered standard.

Today's guys want at least a 10-12 week notice, in PRIDE the standard was 1/3rd to 1/2 that.

 

[IndyCovaHart]

Why is everyone always trying to make the UFC, look like an evil empire?

Probably for the same reason everyone loves to make Jones into the Anti-Christ.

What that reason is.. I haven't quite figured it out yet.

 

[Rematch]

If you are needed for a particularly purpose, but are unable to fulfill that purpose, then you are no longer need. That's logical.

 

[Wayweary]

I get where you're coming from but if the guy was UFC calibre I feel like he should be given a chance, and if he's not then he shouldn't have been signed in the first place.

He was probably fringe UFC caliber, in the grey area. Like, he might be or he might not be worthy of a contract, just like a lot of guys that are potential signs. He stepped up to the plate so they were letting him prove it one way or another. Once he could no longer take that opportunity, he slipped back into his prior status, right back in the pack of guys with winning records in the smaller shows that didn't volunteer for something and not complete it. This really isn't that complex of an issue. Seems there is a strong anti-UFC bias here.

 

[Donny White]

So, you wanna be a f***in fighter?

No, seriously, fighters need to unionize so this sh** doesn't happen.

 

[Rematch]

Probably for the same reason everyone loves to make Jones into the Anti-Christ.

What that reason is.. I haven't quite figured it out yet.

No one is trying to make Jones into the anti-Christ. The anti-Christ is not as comically inept in hiding his bullshit.

 

[Mikedh]

I get where you're coming from but if the guy was UFC calibre I feel like he should be given a chance, and if he's not then he shouldn't have been signed in the first place.

That ignores the reality of selling the card and keeping Hall active. Signing lesser opponents so a fight can go on has more positives than just keeping Hall off the card and not signing anyone. If the replacement impresses, good for them, if not, they will eventually be cut.

Saving the fight last minute is at least something to give your audience, keeps one of the fighters active and it gives another fighter a shot.

 

[Wayweary]

Demarques Johnson took a short-notice fight against Gunnar Nelson on less then 2 weeks notice 30+ pounds overweight; he thought he was doing the UFC a favor, though Joe Silva didn't see it this way as he cut him for coming in overweight and losing.

There are many more examples of this, and we also don't even know half of the injuries these guys fight with most of the time.

My main issue with the cut is what it says about the UFC's signing policy - if they really want to be about representing the best fighters in the world then no one should ever be signed for a fight and then cut because they got injured; that tells me they never should have been signed in the first place or the UFC is abusing their position of power over the fighters by demanding unrealistic performance expectations (fight on short notice and don't get injured OR ELSE....).

Wow, great example. If only he were still in the UFC, the WW division could have ended up entirely different... He's closing on a .500 win rate after dropping five in a row at the moment, having lost his next two fights after being cut as well. He'd missed weight before the incident you mentioned. And even though he came in late notice, he must have misrepresented his condition because they set it for a 175 catch-weight bout but he still missed by an additional 8 lbs.

If you deserve to be in the UFC by merit alone, you don't have to take short-notice fights.

 

[zzzdom]

Jesus, people moan just about anything. He was signed as a temporary fighter for UFC and you should know what happens with temps in general..

Anyway, I would rather be called a Zuffa Zombie than use the term myself, some of you guys are just as bad as that vagina stain.

 

[Wayweary]

My thread title is a FACTUAL STATEMENT - the guy was signed to fight, got injured, and was cut. There was a lot of circumstancial stuff going on to be fair (he was an injury replacement himself), but the thread title is just stating a fact. But yeah, it's a pretty unique situation that we will probably only see very rarely (an injury replacement getting injured),

I also never said your job should be secure if you bail on a short-notice fight (once again UFC defenders putting words in my mouth); I simply questioned the wisdom of signing a guy to fight on the main card and then cutting him instead of relegating him to the prelims in the future.

Every day stating facts and having a discussion becomes more and more obscene thanks to the internet.

Your thread title was "Don't Get Injured While Training for A Fight, UFC Will Cut You." So now you are just being dishonest. Your implication is that this is a pattern that the UFC will punish you for getting injured. No, it just wont reward you for saying you are going to do something and then not doing it. The fact that you now admit this is a unique situation completely flies in the face of the thread title, and the content of the OP and several of your other posts. You try to turn a non-event into an example of the UFC strong-arming fighters already on their roster. No, doesn't fly.

Your thread is bad and you should feel bad.

 

[Wayweary]

First off he was hired as a replacement and looks like he signed and took the fight while hurt knowing he was hurt.

It does look a lot like that. In fact, they might have found a non-injured opponent for Hall if not for this guy.

 

[Mikedh]

As I will repeat again, my concern is less about whether or not he "deserves" to be in the UFC and more about what it says when you cut a guy who hasn't made his debut yet was slated to fight on the main card; if he is main card worthy against Uriah, then he is prelim-worthy against a nobody, so it seems like he is being punished for getting injured. Doesn't mean he deserves to be in the UFC, deserves a million dollars, etc.

He isn't "main card worthy" though. They didn't sign him to be on main cards. He is or was there because Hall needed an opponent last minute and no one on Costas level is going to take that fight last minute against Hall.

If you had never watched fighting before I would understand your confusion but you don't need to be dishonestly naive. You know things like this is how injuries are handled last minute, especially when the non injured fighter has had some sort of investment put in.

 

[fightdonttweet]

From my earlier post in this thread:

Gotta agree that the losing streak came into play, but I read an interview with Johnson after the cut and he seemed pretty hurt that they took advantage of the situation; he was on a two-fight losing streak and they came to him with a week before a fight when he was 30+ pounds overweight to fight one of their top prospects (Gunnar Nelson).

There is the "make me an offer I can't refuse" ideology from Joe Silva that made him take the fight; he was under the impression that they were asking him to do them a favor by offering him the fight, so he figured that even if he lost/underperformed it would make sense why (short-notice/massive weight-cut) and they would give him a favorable match-up aftewards so he would get at least one more shot against a guy more on his level then Gunnar. If he didn't take the fight for whatever excuse (too short-notice, too overweight), he is the bad guy now and they are already in a position where they can cut him since he is on a losing streak (or give him a match-up that is stylistic nightmare for his next fight).

It ends up being a lose-lose, since you have no leverage to not take the fight since you are on a losing streak and don't have much name value.


As I will repeat again, my concern is less about whether or not he "deserves" to be in the UFC and more about what it says when you cut a guy who hasn't made his debut yet was slated to fight on the main card; if he is main card worthy against Uriah, then he is prelim-worthy against a nobody, so it seems like he is being punished for getting injured. Doesn't mean he deserves to be in the UFC, deserves a million dollars, etc.

He wasnt main card worthy. You're starting with a false assumption.

His ONLY role there was to allow Uriah to fight.

 

[Lead]

My thread title is a FACTUAL STATEMENT - the guy was signed to fight, got injured, and was cut. There was a lot of circumstancial stuff going on to be fair (he was an injury replacement himself), but the thread title is just stating a fact. But yeah, it's a pretty unique situation that we will probably only see very rarely (an injury replacement getting injured),

I also never said your job should be secure if you bail on a short-notice fight (once again UFC defenders putting words in my mouth); I simply questioned the wisdom of signing a guy to fight on the main card and then cutting him instead of relegating him to the prelims in the future.

Every day stating facts and having a discussion becomes more and more obscene thanks to the internet.

It isn't factual.

-The overwhelming amount of fighters who get injured do not get cut
-It's hard to even term what happened to this guy as being "cut" since he never even fought in the org
-Fighters are actually encouraged to heal injuries before fighting again as I mentioned and explained in my previous post.

Factual to you is being completely misleading for an obscure scenario and then acting like it's widespread. You're shitting on UFC for the wrong reasons and it hurts your own credibility in the process.

"Don't get injured while training for a fight"
-Why? I am provided health insurance for any injuries I abstain while training and must have them healed before my next fight?
"UFC will cut you"
-No, they usually let me heal and pay for it even when it means my fight gets cancelled for a certain card (Costas, etc).

But keep on pointing to this obscure fighter who never even fought in the org and call it facts. It's embarrassing.

 

[Wayweary]

He isn't "main card worthy" though. They didn't sign him to be on main cards. He is or was there because Hall needed an opponent last minute and no one on Costas level is going to take that fight last minute against Hall.

If you had never watched fighting before I would understand your confusion but you don't need to be dishonestly naive. You know things like this is how injuries are handled last minute, especially when the non injured fighter has had some sort of investment put in.

He wasnt main card worthy. You're starting with a false assumption.

His ONLY role there was to allow Uriah to fight.

Yup, if he was any good and at least showed up to fight, he might have become the next Patrick Cummins.

 

[suffersystem]

It isn't factual.

-The overwhelming amount of fighters who get injured do no get cut
-It's hard to even term what happened to this guy as being "cut" since he never even fought in the org
-Fighters are actually encouraged to heal injuries before fighting again as I mentioned and explained in my previous post.

Factual to you is being completely misleading for an obscure scenario and then acting like it's widespread. You're shitting on UFC for the wrong reasons and it hurts youre own credibility in the process.

"Don't get injured while training for a fight"
-Why? I am provided health insurance for any injuries I abstain while training and must have them healed before my next fight?
"UFC will cut you"
-No, they usually let me heal and pay for it even when it means my fight get cancelled for a certain card (Costas, etc).

But keep on pointing to this obscure fighter who never even fought in the org and call it facts. It's embarrassing.

This.


It was a rare instance of this happening. If it was something that happened on a more regular basis I could see the issue with it, but that is not the case here.

 

[trblesome1]

 

[Lead]

This is true, it's strange how things have changed; back in the day (peak of PRIDE) it was normal for top guys to fight on short-notice or injured because there wasn't so many possible replacements, it was just considered normal.

Now with the influx of money/attention the top guys are being much more picky about who and when they fight (probably rightfully so).

The fact of the matter is that if the UFC wasn't spreading itself thin with like 50 events in a year then there would be a number of good options for Uriah to fight instead of juggling squash matches with different unworthy injury replacements.

Ha! Fighter don't do that anymore now because they are valued more under the UFC than when Pride had them. UFC gives them health insurance and allows them to pull out of fights AND PAYS FOR THE INJURY THEY SUSTAINED. That's a lose-lose in the short term but a win-win in the long term for the fighters and org.

Pride was the exact opposite. It was all about right now, which meant fighters had to
1. Fight injured
2. Use harmful substances to keep an edge with no testing
3. Fight at a weight disadvantage in openweight fights
4. Fight multiple times in a damn night in tournaments
They treated fighter like shit.

The same reasons people in this forum respect Pride are the same underlining reasons they hate the UFC, because "they treat fighters bad".

 

[Lead]

This.


It was a rare instance of this happening. If it was something that happened on a more regular basis I could see the issue with it, but that is not the case here.

This is becoming the kinda stuff posters have to dig for to complain about. It's hilarious. There definitely are issues worth discussing for change with the org but I think UFC has been doing pretty well with long-term development/health of their roster.

The insurance move was huge two years ago and no one talked about it on here. I don't think many people even understand why injuries have spiked since then. It's because of that move. The UFC essentially made a move that has fucked them over for a lot of main events but it's something they believed was right for the long term health of fighters careers. If you think clearly, you're fighters are you assets, they are what you market. The longer you can have them healthy and around, the longer they can fight and be marketed. It's win win long-term.

 

[MaTaLa]

Business as usual for a lot of promotional companies. I dislike Zuffa/Dana but there's nothing unusual about this.