Donald Trump's 10 Point Immigration Plan

[HereticBD]

How much would the wall cost? And what does it compare to the other things we spend just as much and more on?

I have no idea how much it would cost for the materials alone, let alone all the labor. My estimation....a fuck tonne. It's a border wall. It's ridiculously large, and to make some super reinforced ultra mega wall around it, is truly some sci-fi shit.

C'mon man, you should know where I stand on this election, but this, THIS, is absolutely absurd. If it gets Trump more votes, great, but let's not kid ourselves. It ain't happening.

 

[Islam Imamate]

It's all GDP with these people. Who cares if the GDP is slightly higher because there's a bunch of people who came here illegally. It's not how it's done. And cheap labour? Some guy that gets to hire a slew of Mexicans (who now compete with Americans) and underpay them?

I made this point in another thread but its fascinating how many on the left will support measures like an increased MW when its some college student or single mom working flipping burgers but in this case will then rush to the defense of the farming and construction corporations by saying that paying a decent, livable wage is simply too much and we need to pay illegals dog shit wages for them to stay in business instead of paying Americans a good wage.

As if people who decide to go around the law and come here illegally are not going to commit crimes. They're here precisely because they're criminals.

Here, I disagree. Its true that they did break the law by entering illegally and they also tend to enter the lower class which is more predisposed to crime. But I don't think that they're any more predisposed to crime than the average American when you adjust for all else, in fact they may be less since they're out competing lower class Americans in the job market.

This however does not earn them the right to stay in the country. We should not have to demonize illegal immigrants to make the argument against their staying here. This is one of my big gripes with conservatives here. We should be able to have both sympathy for their plight and the conviction to uphold our immigration laws despite some of its messy consequences for good people.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I have no idea how much it would cost for the materials alone, let alone all the labor. My estimation....a fuck tonne. It's a border wall. It's ridiculously large, and to make some super reinforced ultra mega wall around it, is truly some sci-fi shit.

C'mon man, you should know where I stand on this election, but this, THIS, is absolutely absurd. If it gets Trump more votes, great, but let's not kid ourselves. It ain't happening.

Maybe Trump can save some money on labor...by hiring illegal immigrants to build it.

 

[Trotsky]

The last 24 hours I've heard many do nothing but poo poo his immigration plan as being too mean and hateful, too racist, too white nationalist, too kkk-ish, too nazi...basically too everything that is unholy in the universe. But what I haven't heard is much substantive argument against it.

What do you guys think of this plan, substantively, and could it work? What are the pros and cons? How does it compare to our current immigration policy and culture?

Trump's 10 Point Immigration Plan

1. Build the wall

Trump has continued to stress that Mexico would pay for the wall, despite Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto’s tweet on Wednesday insisting that he personally told Trump his nation would do no such thing. Going off script in Phoenix, Trump complimented Peña Nieto and then said, “They don’t know it yet, but they’re going to pay for the wall.”

2. End “catch and release”

Trump says any immigrant in the country illegally who is arrested by law enforcement would be detained until they are deported.

3. Create a deportation task force and focus on criminals in the country illegally.

Trump says he would launch a “deportation task force” that would focus on removing undocumented residents with criminal records, along with those who have overstayed their visas or are using public resources or benefits.

4. Defund “sanctuary cities”

Trump says he would use the federal government to discourage cities from enacting policies that protect or aid undocumented residents. Such places are referred to by conservatives as “sanctuary cities.”

5. Cancel President Obama’s executive actions

The GOP nominee would end the Obama administration’s Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals immigration policy, better known as DACA, under which roughly half a million young people brought to the U.S. as children have received temporary legal status. Trump would also cancel President Obama’s DAPA program, or Deferred Action for Parents of Americans, which would give similar status to undocumented parents of American citizens. That program has been frozen as it faces court challenges.

6. Extreme vetting. Block immigration from some nations

Trump would block immigration from countries for which proper vetting is not possible. He says that would include Syria and Libya currently.

7. Force other countries to take back those whom the U.S. wants to deport

Trump did not specify how this might work but insisted he would force other nations to take back criminals and other undocumented residents the U.S. wants to deport.

8. Get biometric visa tracking system fully in place

Such a system would include biometric records, such as fingerprints or retinal scans, that could identify individuals with more precision as they enter the country.

9. Strengthen E-Verify, block jobs for the undocumented

The nominee did not offer specifics but said he would strengthen the E-Verify system so that undocumented residents would find it difficult or impossible to get work.

10. Limit legal immigration, lower it to “historic norms” and set new caps

In the past, Trump has indicated that some legal immigration should be curtailed (in August 2015 he proposed a temporary freeze on all green cards). But his Phoenix speech expanded on that idea. The Republican nominee is now calling for a commission to roll back the amount of legal immigration to “historic norms,” a phrase that implies a level that is lower than the current historic high (immigrants relative to total U.S. population). Trump said he would expect new immigration caps to be put in place.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/donald-trumps-10-point-immigration-plan/

Point 1 - Possible, but wholly unnecessary
Point 2 and 3- Extremely costly-- will have to bloat the federal state, raise taxes, and then solve the unemployment of those agents thereafter (that is, under the small likelihood that Trump doesn't retain a Gestapo in their wake)
Point 4 - Vague and stupid. The federal government gives aid to states, not cities, and to dictate to states what cities they can give money to would be blatantly unconstitutional
Point 5 - OK
Point 6 - Vague, costly, and xenophobic. Should be possible, though.
Point 7 - Vague, diplomatically costly, and logistically improbable
Point 8 - Again very costly, but as an Orwell fan, intriguing
Point 9 - Vague and logistically impossible
Point 10 - Nonsense


Trump is a fucking idiot

 

[Benjamin Burton]

the wall would cost between 5 and 30 billion dollars. the cost of insuring illegal immigrants is roughly 10 billion dollars. you can build a small wall just by that alone. total costs for illegals could be as high as 100 billion annually. none of this is even considering how much mexico will subsidize.

wall cost
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...rump-plans-build-wall-along-us-mexico-border/
illegal cost
http://www.fairus.org/publications/...llegal-immigration-on-united-states-taxpayers

people saying this is impossible are really not thinking this through.

 

[kpt018]

I see. So your main objection to this plan is the fact that you actually support illegal immigration and believes it makes our country better? At least your honest about supporting open borders and cheap labor. I suppose we can agree to disagree on that.

It's mutually beneficial, so I don't see what there is to disagree with. Immigrants have an opportunity for a better life and they add to our economy and provide labor. Win for all. What's to hate?

And I actually support legal immigration, but as long as it benefits America I would make it extremely easy to become legal.

 

[dontsnitch]

I made this point in another thread but its fascinating how many on the left will support measures like an increased MW when its some college student or single mom working flipping burgers but in this case will then rush to the defense of the farming and construction corporations by saying that paying a decent, livable wage is simply too much and we need to pay illegals dog shit wages for them to stay in business instead of paying Americans a good wage.

Agreed.

Here, I disagree. Its true that they did break the law by entering illegally and they also tend to enter the lower class which is more predisposed to crime. But I don't think that they're any more predisposed to crime than the average American when you adjust for all else, in fact they may be less since they're out competing lower class Americans in the job market.

This however does not earn them the right to stay in the country. We should not have to demonize illegal immigrants to make the argument against their staying here. This is one of my big gripes with conservatives here. We should be able to have both sympathy for their plight and the conviction to uphold our immigration laws despite some of its messy consequences for good people.

You don't think that a criminal is more likely to come here illegally than someone with a clean record? There are legal avenues to enter the country. As I understand it, the stats for this are incomplete for obvious reasons.

Just to clarify, I'm very sympathetic (and empathetic) to the plight of the immigrant. I would also attempt to come to the US illegally if I was in a similar scenario. I don't blame them at all. I blame the US for looking the other way and citing the GDP while ignoring culture and order.

 

[Seano]

I support the idea. I am skeptical that a lot of it would actually get done.

The idea of the country just accepting everyone that can make it here stopped working in the 20th century. It was fine for that era but times have changed. We need to be more careful about who comes here, who is here and how they get here.

 

[Islam Imamate]

You don't think that a criminal is more likely to come here illegally than someone with a clean record? There are legal avenues to enter the country. As I understand it, the stats for this are incomplete for obvious reasons.

Not necessarily no. I can concede I might be wrong but I don't take it for granted that this is the case. The criminals that we should be worried about, the cartels, have it pretty good over there. They basically control large swathes of the northern territory with little resistance from the police outside a couple of high profile cases like El Chapo. Its the poor with no opportunities who want to come and stay in America. If cartel members are crossing the border its likely to move goods and people through their smuggling routes, meaning they're probably going back.

If we're talking about Mexican criminals that want to come and stay in America and build a life here they may be more likely to come on a plane riding in first class. Mexico is a deeply corrupt society where many government officials enrich themselves on bribes and similar corrupt dealings. So in my mind it may very well be that the dirt poor Mexican is the honest actor intending to abide by the law(excluding the immigration ones of course) and the rich one is the corrupt official who could easily be bringing his dirty money here to play tax evasion and money laundering games.

Ask @Rod1 He may think some of my arguments here are BS with good reason but he'll be the first to tell you that Mexican society is unfortunately very corrupt like other Latin American countries.

Just to clarify, I'm very sympathetic (and empathetic) to the plight of the immigrant. I would also attempt to come to the US illegally if I was in a similar scenario. I don't blame them at all. I blame the US for looking the other way and citing the GDP while ignoring culture and order.

What frustrates me is the lack of concern for the working class of America. Manufacturing is not coming back but perhaps working class Americans can find decent jobs in farm and construction work without having their wages depressed by the presence of illegal immigrants.

 

[Seano]

What frustrates me is the lack of concern for the working class of America. Manufacturing is not coming back but perhaps working class Americans can find decent jobs in farm and construction work without having their wages depressed by the presence of illegal immigrants.

In before South Park meme.

 

[Kadafi]

Good article

http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2...litant-shaykh-mahmood-omar-khabir-among-them/

 

[dontsnitch]

Not necessarily no. I can concede I might be wrong but I don't take it for granted that this is the case. The criminals that we should be worried about, the cartels, have it pretty good over there. They basically control large swathes of the northern territory with little resistance from the police outside a couple of high profile cases like El Chapo. Its the poor with no opportunities who want to come and stay in America. If cartel members are crossing the border its likely to move goods and people through their smuggling routes, meaning they're probably going back.

If we're talking about Mexican criminals that want to come and stay in America and build a life here they may be more likely to come on a plane riding in first class. Mexico is a deeply corrupt society where many government officials enrich themselves on bribes and similar corrupt dealings. So in my mind it may very well be that the dirt poor Mexican is the honest actor intending to abide by the law(excluding the immigration ones of course) and the rich one is the corrupt official who could easily be bringing his dirty money here to play tax evasion and money laundering games.

Ask @Rod1 He may think some of my arguments here are BS with good reason but he'll be the first to tell you that Mexican society is unfortunately very corrupt like other Latin American countries.

What frustrates me is the lack of concern for the working class of America. Manufacturing is not coming back but perhaps working class Americans can find decent jobs in farm and construction work without having their wages depressed by the presence of illegal immigrants.

Since I'm also unsure of the stats, I can't really argue. Although, I think it's also unfair to compare their criminals with ours. If one murderer comes through illegally and kills someone, that's one too many. He shouldn't have been here.

I don't know if it's lack of concern or simple rationalization. They cheer for illegals, and then presuppose everything is fine. It's easy to simply say that Americans wouldn't do those jobs anyway.

 

[kpt018]

Since I'm also unsure of the stats, I can't really argue. Although, I think it's also unfair to compare their criminals with ours. If one murderer comes through illegally and kills someone, that's one too many. He shouldn't have been here.

I don't know if it's lack of concern or simple rationalization. They cheer for illegals, and then presuppose everything is fine. It's easy to simply say that Americans wouldn't do those jobs anyway.

Ok, well it sounds like you're taking a moral stance here. How do you justify refusing to help thousands of good folks to every one that commits a crime? I think you have to assume that Americans are more valuable than immigrants to stay consistent there.

 

[dontsnitch]

Ok, well it sounds like you're taking a moral stance here. How do you justify refusing to help thousands of good folks to every one that commits a crime? I think you have to assume that Americans are more valuable than immigrants to stay consistent there.

Each country should help their countrymen first and foremost, obviously. We don't put residents of other countries ahead of our own.

 

[ripskater]

It sounds like a decent plan to me.

 

[chardog]

wow, wonder when liberals are finally going to give credit where it's due:

"Strengthen E-Verify, block illegal jobs"

that's code for ending employment for illegal jobs.

Evil corporations using illegals for profit, time to change the narrative, "Who's gonna pick our berries?"

No jobs, no immigration issues AMIRITE liberals?

 

[chardog]

How much would the wall cost? And what does it compare to the other things we spend just as much and more on?

100+ billion burden of illegal immigration per year, NO PROBLEM!!!!

building a wall with unknown price, well economic disaster!

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

The last 24 hours I've heard many do nothing but poo poo his immigration plan as being too mean and hateful, too racist, too white nationalist, too kkk-ish, too nazi...basically too everything that is unholy in the universe. But what I haven't heard is much substantive argument against it.

What do you guys think of this plan, substantively, and could it work? What are the pros and cons? How does it compare to our current immigration policy and culture?

Trump's 10 Point Immigration Plan

1. Build the wall

Trump has continued to stress that Mexico would pay for the wall, despite Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto’s tweet on Wednesday insisting that he personally told Trump his nation would do no such thing. Going off script in Phoenix, Trump complimented Peña Nieto and then said, “They don’t know it yet, but they’re going to pay for the wall.”

2. End “catch and release”

Trump says any immigrant in the country illegally who is arrested by law enforcement would be detained until they are deported.

3. Create a deportation task force and focus on criminals in the country illegally.

Trump says he would launch a “deportation task force” that would focus on removing undocumented residents with criminal records, along with those who have overstayed their visas or are using public resources or benefits.

4. Defund “sanctuary cities”

Trump says he would use the federal government to discourage cities from enacting policies that protect or aid undocumented residents. Such places are referred to by conservatives as “sanctuary cities.”

5. Cancel President Obama’s executive actions

The GOP nominee would end the Obama administration’s Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals immigration policy, better known as DACA, under which roughly half a million young people brought to the U.S. as children have received temporary legal status. Trump would also cancel President Obama’s DAPA program, or Deferred Action for Parents of Americans, which would give similar status to undocumented parents of American citizens. That program has been frozen as it faces court challenges.

6. Extreme vetting. Block immigration from some nations

Trump would block immigration from countries for which proper vetting is not possible. He says that would include Syria and Libya currently.

7. Force other countries to take back those whom the U.S. wants to deport

Trump did not specify how this might work but insisted he would force other nations to take back criminals and other undocumented residents the U.S. wants to deport.

8. Get biometric visa tracking system fully in place

Such a system would include biometric records, such as fingerprints or retinal scans, that could identify individuals with more precision as they enter the country.

9. Strengthen E-Verify, block jobs for the undocumented

The nominee did not offer specifics but said he would strengthen the E-Verify system so that undocumented residents would find it difficult or impossible to get work.

10. Limit legal immigration, lower it to “historic norms” and set new caps

In the past, Trump has indicated that some legal immigration should be curtailed (in August 2015 he proposed a temporary freeze on all green cards). But his Phoenix speech expanded on that idea. The Republican nominee is now calling for a commission to roll back the amount of legal immigration to “historic norms,” a phrase that implies a level that is lower than the current historic high (immigrants relative to total U.S. population). Trump said he would expect new immigration caps to be put in place.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/donald-trumps-10-point-immigration-plan/

1. Laughable. No idea how they would ever get mexico to pay for it and not obliterate trade relations.

2. Doable -- i am sure there is enough leeway in the patriot act to treat any person, illegally in the country with caution, warranting detainment.

3. Very Doable. Repurpose the DEA and combined with ICE

4. Not really sure how that would work

5. Let the court decide, hopefully they vote to abolish

6. Obviously and Hell yes.

7. Not really doable

8. Well, you make every Canadian who has a Nexus Card do the same thing, so why not make the people actually entering illegally?

9. Economic deterrents are probably the best policy, considering its likely the main reason people risk illegally crossing -- making it less worth their risk makes sense

10. Caps make sense, very doable.

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

I have no idea how much it would cost for the materials alone, let alone all the labor. My estimation....a fuck tonne. It's a border wall. It's ridiculously large, and to make some super reinforced ultra mega wall around it, is truly some sci-fi shit.

C'mon man, you should know where I stand on this election, but this, THIS, is absolutely absurd. If it gets Trump more votes, great, but let's not kid ourselves. It ain't happening.

Trump started out saying 4 billion (8 for anyone else but he could do it for 4 ) it quickly jumped to 12 plus but it would likely be much higher and then when finished it will cost a crap ton to upkeep

But then of course well ladders ...

 

[dontsnitch]

1. Laughable. No idea how they would ever get mexico to pay for it and not obliterate trade relations.

2. Doable -- i am sure there is enough leeway in the patriot act to treat any person, illegally in the country with caution, warranting detainment.

3. Very Doable. Repurpose the DEA and combined with ICE

4. Not really sure how that would work

5. Let the court decide, hopefully they vote to abolish

6. Obviously and Hell yes.

7. Not really doable

8. Well, you make every Canadian who has a Nexus Card do the same thing, so why not make the people actually entering illegally?

9. Economic deterrents are probably the best policy, considering its likely the main reason people risk illegally crossing -- making it less worth their risk makes sense

10. Caps make sense, very doable.

As one of the only people who answered this objectively, can you elaborate on 2? What should the proper protocol be when police detain someone who is here illegally?