Donald Trump's 10 Point Immigration Plan

TheComebackKid

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The last 24 hours I've heard many do nothing but poo poo his immigration plan as being too mean and hateful, too racist, too white nationalist, too kkk-ish, too nazi...basically too everything that is unholy in the universe. But what I haven't heard is much substantive argument against it.

What do you guys think of this plan, substantively, and could it work? What are the pros and cons? How does it compare to our current immigration policy and culture?

Trump's 10 Point Immigration Plan

1. Build the wall


Trump has continued to stress that Mexico would pay for the wall, despite Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto’s tweet on Wednesday insisting that he personally told Trump his nation would do no such thing. Going off script in Phoenix, Trump complimented Peña Nieto and then said, “They don’t know it yet, but they’re going to pay for the wall.”

2. End “catch and release”

Trump says any immigrant in the country illegally who is arrested by law enforcement would be detained until they are deported.

3. Create a deportation task force and focus on criminals in the country illegally.

Trump says he would launch a “deportation task force” that would focus on removing undocumented residents with criminal records, along with those who have overstayed their visas or are using public resources or benefits.

4. Defund “sanctuary cities”

Trump says he would use the federal government to discourage cities from enacting policies that protect or aid undocumented residents. Such places are referred to by conservatives as “sanctuary cities.”

5. Cancel President Obama’s executive actions

The GOP nominee would end the Obama administration’s Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals immigration policy, better known as DACA, under which roughly half a million young people brought to the U.S. as children have received temporary legal status. Trump would also cancel President Obama’s DAPA program, or Deferred Action for Parents of Americans, which would give similar status to undocumented parents of American citizens. That program has been frozen as it faces court challenges.

6. Extreme vetting. Block immigration from some nations

Trump would block immigration from countries for which proper vetting is not possible. He says that would include Syria and Libya currently.

7. Force other countries to take back those whom the U.S. wants to deport

Trump did not specify how this might work but insisted he would force other nations to take back criminals and other undocumented residents the U.S. wants to deport.

8. Get biometric visa tracking system fully in place

Such a system would include biometric records, such as fingerprints or retinal scans, that could identify individuals with more precision as they enter the country.

9. Strengthen E-Verify, block jobs for the undocumented

The nominee did not offer specifics but said he would strengthen the E-Verify system so that undocumented residents would find it difficult or impossible to get work.

10. Limit legal immigration, lower it to “historic norms” and set new caps

In the past, Trump has indicated that some legal immigration should be curtailed (in August 2015 he proposed a temporary freeze on all green cards). But his Phoenix speech expanded on that idea. The Republican nominee is now calling for a commission to roll back the amount of legal immigration to “historic norms,” a phrase that implies a level that is lower than the current historic high (immigrants relative to total U.S. population). Trump said he would expect new immigration caps to be put in place.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/donald-trumps-10-point-immigration-plan/
 
Fan of all of it except for the wall.
 
Point one is fantasy.

Point two is unconstitutional as written.

Point three is a bit of a muddle, but not itself a problem.

Point four is aggressively antifedederalist, and of limited efficacy for cities that can self fund. Very vulnerable to constitutional challenges depending on the approach.

Point five is not surprising.

Point six is not surprising, but historically ugly - see ww2.

Point seven is fantasy.

Point eight and nine aren't surprising.

Point ten wouldn't change anything. We're well within historical norms for immigrants as a % of population.
 
Not sure what the historic normal is for legal immigration as it's been all over the place.

Data on the nativity of the U.S. population were first collected in 1850. That year, there were 2.2 million immigrants in the United States, nearly 10 percent of the total population.

Between 1860 and 1920, the immigrant share of the total population fluctuated between 13 and nearly 15 percent, peaking at 14.8 percent in 1890, mainly due to high levels of European immigration.

Restrictive immigration legislation in 1921 and 1924, coupled with the Great Depression and World War II, led to a sharp drop in new arrivals. As a result, the foreign-born share steadily declined between the 1930s and 1970s, reaching a record low of approximately 5 percent in 1970 (9.6 million, see Table 1). Since 1970, the share and number of immigrants have increased rapidly, mainly as a result of large-scale immigration from Latin America and Asia made possible by Congress’ abolishment of national-origin admission quotas in 1965. Since 1970, the number of U.S. immigrants more than quadrupled, rising from 9.6 million in 1970 to 42.4 million in 2014.




immigration_by_year.jpg
 
The whole thing is pointless given that Mexican immigrants are a small, but net benefit to the economy and commit crimes at lower rates than American born citizens. Given those two facts it's pretty immoral and stupid to launch a campaign against these people. If we are talking about immigration from the middle east, depending on the situation, that can be a very different story. I don't think we need to spend massive resources to stop the guy coming over from South America who is willing to work his ass off for a better life for himself/herself and their families!

TCK claims to never have heard a substantive argument but he has, he is just to dense to understand it.
 
The whole thing is pointless given that Mexican immigrants are a small, but net benefit to the economy and commit crimes at lower rates than American born citizens. Given those two facts it's pretty immoral and stupid to launch a campaign against these people.

On what basis do you claim that Mexican illegal immigrants are a net benefit?

If we are talking about immigration from the middle east, depending on the situation, that can be a very different story. I don't think we need to spend massive resources to stop the guy coming over from South America who is willing to work his ass off for a better life for himself/herself and their families!

What about if it is 11-30 million of them many of which commit crimes and/or need public services and the American social safety net to survive and get ahead?

TCK claims to never have heard a substantive argument but he has, he is just to dense to understand it.

This was a not a substantive argument against Trump immigration plan. No, no, no lol. This response was nothing more than an emotional appeal for amnesty.
 
On what basis do you claim that Mexican illegal immigrants are a net benefit?

The conclusion is , which I've posted in many threads and I'm almost certain in response to your posts. It's actually well studied. Essentially, they provide cheap labor, buy things and pay taxes without receiving benefits. All in all they're a small net positive.

What about if it is 11-30 million of them many of which commit crimes and/or need public services and the American social safety net to survive and get ahead?

The number that commit crimes is ridiculously small. And non-citizens cannot receive benefits, another myth.

This was a not a substantive argument against Trump immigration plan. No, no, no lol. This response was nothing more than an emotional appeal for amnesty.

You can't be that stupid! The post is entirely based on facts, but I think I also have the superior moral position as well if you want to go there.
 
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I don't have too many issues with most of it tbh. I disagree on the DAPA program though. What's going to happen to young American citizens with parents who get deported? Figuring that out seems to me a bigger headache than just giving those parents a little leeway.

Also I don't see the point in limiting legal immigration. Just seems to me another bone he's throwing to his populist base.
 
it all sounds reasonable and definitely doable. liberals will whine about how 1 is impossible but its definitely doable, 7 is the one that will probably be a problem.
 
The last 24 hours I've heard many do nothing but poo poo his immigration plan as being too mean and hateful, too racist, too white nationalist, too kkk-ish, too nazi...basically too everything that is unholy in the universe. But what I haven't heard is much substantive argument against it.

What do you guys think of this plan, substantively, and could it work? What are the pros and cons? How does it compare to our current immigration policy and culture?

Trump's 10 Point Immigration Plan

1. Build the wall


Trump has continued to stress that Mexico would pay for the wall, despite Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto’s tweet on Wednesday insisting that he personally told Trump his nation would do no such thing. Going off script in Phoenix, Trump complimented Peña Nieto and then said, “They don’t know it yet, but they’re going to pay for the wall.”

2. End “catch and release”

Trump says any immigrant in the country illegally who is arrested by law enforcement would be detained until they are deported.

3. Create a deportation task force and focus on criminals in the country illegally.

Trump says he would launch a “deportation task force” that would focus on removing undocumented residents with criminal records, along with those who have overstayed their visas or are using public resources or benefits.

4. Defund “sanctuary cities”

Trump says he would use the federal government to discourage cities from enacting policies that protect or aid undocumented residents. Such places are referred to by conservatives as “sanctuary cities.”

5. Cancel President Obama’s executive actions

The GOP nominee would end the Obama administration’s Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals immigration policy, better known as DACA, under which roughly half a million young people brought to the U.S. as children have received temporary legal status. Trump would also cancel President Obama’s DAPA program, or Deferred Action for Parents of Americans, which would give similar status to undocumented parents of American citizens. That program has been frozen as it faces court challenges.

6. Extreme vetting. Block immigration from some nations

Trump would block immigration from countries for which proper vetting is not possible. He says that would include Syria and Libya currently.

7. Force other countries to take back those whom the U.S. wants to deport

Trump did not specify how this might work but insisted he would force other nations to take back criminals and other undocumented residents the U.S. wants to deport.

8. Get biometric visa tracking system fully in place

Such a system would include biometric records, such as fingerprints or retinal scans, that could identify individuals with more precision as they enter the country.

9. Strengthen E-Verify, block jobs for the undocumented

The nominee did not offer specifics but said he would strengthen the E-Verify system so that undocumented residents would find it difficult or impossible to get work.

10. Limit legal immigration, lower it to “historic norms” and set new caps

In the past, Trump has indicated that some legal immigration should be curtailed (in August 2015 he proposed a temporary freeze on all green cards). But his Phoenix speech expanded on that idea. The Republican nominee is now calling for a commission to roll back the amount of legal immigration to “historic norms,” a phrase that implies a level that is lower than the current historic high (immigrants relative to total U.S. population). Trump said he would expect new immigration caps to be put in place.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/donald-trumps-10-point-immigration-plan/


Trump should make a speech.

"Mr.Nietto Pay for this wall"
 
Extreme vetting, monitoring, and deportation for illegals are all viable possibilities.

The Wall though? He really needs to just stop with that nonsense. It ain't gonna happen. I honestly can't believe some think it's a real possibility, or that without breaking some laws, and making the wall one big electrified death trap, with land mines surrounding it, that it would even be effective.
 
It's a good start and I'm digging especially point 10 there.

Obviously all Cuckservatives are crapping their (((pants))) over this.
 
I don't have too many issues with most of it tbh. I disagree on the DAPA program though. What's going to happen to young American citizens with parents who get deported? Figuring that out seems to me a bigger headache than just giving those parents a little leeway.

Agreed on this part. I'm leery of that as well.

Also I don't see the point in limiting legal immigration. Just seems to me another bone he's throwing to his populist base.

I disagree with this. There is only so much resources and opportunity to go around. Why continue to offer it to the world when so many Americans already here could use those resources and opportunities.
 
Extreme vetting, monitoring, and deportation for illegals are all viable possibilities.

The Wall though? He really needs to just stop with that nonsense. It ain't gonna happen. I honestly can't believe some think it's a real possibility, or that without breaking some laws, and making the wall one big electrified death trap, with land mines surrounding it, that it would even be effective.

The only reason it wouldn't happen is if enough people make a stink about it. But if enough people back it then there is absolutely no reason it couldn't happen.
 
The conclusion is , which I've posted in many threads and I'm almost certain in response to your posts. It's actually well studied. Essentially, they provide cheap labor, buy things and pay taxes without receiving benefits. All in all they're a small net positive.



The number that commit crimes is ridiculously small. And non-citizens cannot receive benefits, another myth.



You can't be that stupid! The post is entirely based on facts, but I think I also have the superior moral position as well if you want to go there.

I see. So your main objection to this plan is the fact that you actually support illegal immigration and believes it makes our country better? At least your honest about supporting open borders and cheap labor. I suppose we can agree to disagree on that.
 
The only reason it wouldn't happen is if enough people make a stink about it. But if enough people back it then there is absolutely no reason it couldn't happen.

The cost would be astronomical, and no, Mexico ain't paying for shit. It's a ridiculous proposal. May as well propose a giant dome that covers America.
 
I disagree with this. There is only so much resources and opportunity to go around. Why continue to offer it to the world when so many Americans already here could use those resources and opportunities.
I don't think its a zero sum game the way you're portraying it to be with legal immigrants, specifically in the case of brain drain. I think that educated and skilled immigrants contribute a lot to our society. If you're here legally and you're well equipped in terms of skills I believe everyone benefits with the addition of wealthy tax payers. The there are the student visas that help fill the ranks of our STEM departments. That means more minds fueling American research.

Even less skilled immigrants aren't bringing the issues illegals do given they pay all the necessary taxes. If there was some more specific argument based on more details I might buy it but as is it just seems to me to stem from a general disdain for the levels of immigration currently based on imagined issues.
 
I see. So your main objection to this plan is the fact that you actually support illegal immigration and believes it makes our country better? At least your honest about supporting open borders and cheap labor. I suppose we can agree to disagree on that.

It's all GDP with these people. Who cares if the GDP is slightly higher because there's a bunch of people who came here illegally. It's not how it's done. And cheap labour? Some guy that gets to hire a slew of Mexicans (who now compete with Americans) and underpay them? As if people who decide to go around the law and come here illegally are not going to commit crimes. They're here precisely because they're criminals.

That said, the wall has always been a joke. It's Obama's Guantanamo.
 
The cost would be astronomical, and no, Mexico ain't paying for shit. It's a ridiculous proposal. May as well propose a giant dome that covers America.

How much would the wall cost? And what does it compare to the other things we spend just as much and more on?
 

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