Social Dogs of Peace Maul, Kill Intruder, Lives Are Spared
- Thread starter deadshot138
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My God, so they are killers.
I've heard lots of people say once a pits a killer, they just keep
On killing and killing; they sort of develop a taste for blood.
-Yeah, that's right. They kill one man, or kill ten,
It's all the same
I've heard lots of people say once a pits a killer, they just keep
On killing and killing; they sort of develop a taste for blood.
-Yeah, that's right. They kill one man, or kill ten,
It's all the same
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Well, we're not too far apart. I'm not for a ban, but I wouldn't be opposed to a licensing program for owners. They certainly aren't an ordinary dog, and require a lot of attention and care. That said, I lean that way with most aggressive dogs commonly bred for protective means. Doberman's, German Shepherds, Mastiffs, etc. I think there should be some tiered licensing for owners who wish to take on that responsibility. Not to mention breeders of such dogs. They should have some very strict rules, so that the supply does not outweigh the demand. If you limited the amount of people who can actually own one, that would naturally happen.
I think there are other factors at play there. Namely, the panic. It's a herd mentality thing. I don't believe you get those statistics, because 54% of pit bulls in the US had an "incident" or anything. They just have a reputation, that might lead one to turn them in once they get married or have kids, or whatever.
On the whole, I don't disagree that they are a special breed and they shouldn't be handed out to just anyone. I'm just not at the next level where they should be treated like wild animals. There's a middle ground that can be reached.
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The term or classification of APBT has become useless. Besides the obvious that many muscular short haired breeds are identified as pitts, the breed standard of "non human aggression" has been abandoned. Whatever these dogs have become most of them don't resemble the original dogs in temperament or appearance. I had a little red nose bitch decades ago and most people wouldn't think she was a Pitt if I showed them a picture.
So while I'm a pitbull apologist in a way, I completely understand people's concerns about a group of capable and unpredictable dogs. Sucks, but it's reality that there is something to be concerned about.
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Maybe I dunno. I think a big part of the problem is more the people that own pits. There are a lot of shitty dog owners that get pits for the image and don’t really care about owning a dog really. A lot of breeds are aggressive if raised by shitty owners.
Maybe a licensing program is in order. I’ve met some really great and friendly pits that I can’t imagine being bad dogs. I blame the humans on this one
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No, people don't put up their dogs for adoption or sale because of herd panic. That isn't a thing.
They do so because the dogs are presenting a tangible problem at home that inspires consternation or fear.
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Source?
We're just not going to agree here, so whatever. I've stated my position. You've stated yours. The end.
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There's lots of factors working against that breed, and yeah, most come down to people. But habits of generations of shit owners is why we ended up where we're at.
- Dogmen actively culled/cull human aggressive animals. That's not the case anymore. You can alter dog behavior within a few generations, so allowing terrier tendencies to run amok in a molosser is a bad idea.
- Pits are a manageable size. Most people don't want a 120lbs pup.
- They're widely available and can be had for free.
I used to argue that much of the statistics are due to misidentification, but that argument is all but irrelevant when owners don't know what they have. When 60lbs dogs from grand champion lines as well as the 160lbs abomination that's Hercules are considered the same breed then the distinction is irrelevant. Sucks, but what can you do when people work against their breeds best interest.
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You're the one alleging that. It's your burden to substantiate it.
I've posted a statistic in the past showing that the majority of people who returned canine to an animal shelter cited that it showed aggression towards them (the owner) or its family as their reason for returning it. That's in the records they surveyed for dogs that were in the shelters. Meanwhile, the overwhelming plurality of dogs in animal shelters are Pit Bulls. In fact, it may be a majority (it is where I live). Headlines like the following are common around the country. Maricopa County is huge-- 4.5 million people. Pit Bulls account for 3/4th of the dogs in their shelter:
Pit bull population overwhelming shelters, contributing to attacks
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Well, I would, but I know what I'm looking at. That doesn't mean I'm accurate all the time.How many people on first glance would recognize that this is a Pit Bull I wonder?
The unfortunate fact is that this great breed has been mismanaged to the point of no redemption I'm afraid. Just too many ghetto currs or from genetically unstable lines or otherwise potentially good dogs with shit owners to overcome the public perception or dispute statistics.
This is where I'm coming from as far as statistics go - I love Rotties. My best guy was a 120lbs dude. Great dog, sociable, stable, reliable and trustworthy. Never a problem out camping or taking him to visit a friend with another well trained male Rottweiler. The guy was also a good owner so there's that.
Yet they're #2 on the most dangerous breed list. Now if you dig into those stats and account for number of dogs and remove the misidentified APTBs then I'd bet they're neck and neck on a per capita basis. And that's where the human factor comes in. You mismanage a capable animal and you end up with a 4 legged liability.
But now I'm rambling.
I'm just a dog dork so get carried away. Lol
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Common sense should tell you that, unless you think this breed, which has been around for...quite a while, had a return rate spike in 2019 that had absolutely nothing to do with an ever evolving panic driven by social media, and was instead caused by these dogs having "incidents" totally unique to any behavior they have shown in the past.
I repeat, we're just not going to agree here. I understand your position just fine, but you're not going to convince me of your solution based on it. You think they're all uncontrollable killer dogs that should be exterminated from existence. I don't. You're entitled to your opinion. I'm entitled to mine. That's the end of it.
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The funny thing is many working breeds would have just kept the intruder in place. Bullmastiffs were especially known for this as their job was to restrain, not attack. This happened to me once as a buddy's dog would let anyone 8n his yard but would never let you leave. My cousins working line Rotties would do the same. Better scene to come home to than blood and guts I think.
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I have some rescues and they have behavioural problems from living rough for a year... and they will bite, depending on circumstances.
But they are a Jack Russel sized collie/ schipperke cross (mostly) and perfectly ok with their family.
Recently I got into an argument with a "lifestyle" owner of a Staffie because they were running past my house and my dog got out to bite his dog to defend territory (my fault I'll admit. We are semi-rural and the perimeter wasn't secure).
My point is that the guy knew enough that his dog could turn, and that upset him. He was living in fear of his own dog. But he still had the dog because it made him feel tough. (I think).
At the time he wanted a full-on MMA with me out in the street because my scrawney dog bit his tough dog and that frightened him
In fairness I don't think his Staff gave much of a shit and when we had an eye-to-eye he decided he'd rather stick to the accountancy and the marathon-prep.
There's no training course a owner has to pass to get a dog, and random assholes are taking on lifestyle dogs because it makes them feel "whatever" they need to feel.
It's just wrong because the dogs are good dogs.
As for my local dude, you know this will happen, as soon as his gf/wife pops a sprog then "Butch" or "Rommel" is getting put down.
But they are a Jack Russel sized collie/ schipperke cross (mostly) and perfectly ok with their family.
Recently I got into an argument with a "lifestyle" owner of a Staffie because they were running past my house and my dog got out to bite his dog to defend territory (my fault I'll admit. We are semi-rural and the perimeter wasn't secure).
My point is that the guy knew enough that his dog could turn, and that upset him. He was living in fear of his own dog. But he still had the dog because it made him feel tough. (I think).
At the time he wanted a full-on MMA with me out in the street because my scrawney dog bit his tough dog and that frightened him
In fairness I don't think his Staff gave much of a shit and when we had an eye-to-eye he decided he'd rather stick to the accountancy and the marathon-prep.
There's no training course a owner has to pass to get a dog, and random assholes are taking on lifestyle dogs because it makes them feel "whatever" they need to feel.
It's just wrong because the dogs are good dogs.
As for my local dude, you know this will happen, as soon as his gf/wife pops a sprog then "Butch" or "Rommel" is getting put down.
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On the contrary, nothing about that deduction is logical. Pit Bull awareness posting, like the breed itself, is much older than 2018. I'll infer that you didn't read that link. It gives you the the most "common sense" explanation: Americans seeking to add a dog to their homes increased nearly 33% in 2019. That's more new owners. This probably had to do with the economy. More new owners means more Pit Bulls being expelled equals a greater number of their population seeking homes. The increase in the percentage of pits seeking homes isn't the eyebrow-raising facet of that statistics. After all, breed popularity fluctuates more than that.
It doesn't matter whether it's 41% or 54%. That figure it astounding. It's telling you that problems with these animals are so pervasive that a majority of new owners realized their mistake. A majority of the breed is cause problems so great that people are getting rid of them.
It's indicating to you that potential dangerous issues with this breed are so commonplace that it isn't some fringe, overexaggerated fear.
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You might be right. I just know that in the right hands they can be really good dogs. It sucks to think that legitimately good owners can’t raise the dog they want because of idiots.
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To the point of no redemption? are you high? have you ever met a pit bull before?Well, I would, but I know what I'm looking at. That doesn't mean I'm accurate all the time.
The unfortunate fact is that this great breed has been mismanaged to the point of no redemption I'm afraid. Just too many ghetto currs or from genetically unstable lines or otherwise potentially good dogs with shit owners to overcome the public perception or dispute statistics.
This is where I'm coming from as far as statistics go - I love Rotties. My best guy was a 120lbs dude. Great dog, sociable, stable, reliable and trustworthy. Never a problem out camping or taking him to visit a friend with another well trained male Rottweiler. The guy was also a good owner so there's that.
Yet they're #2 on the most dangerous breed list. Now if you dig into those stats and account for number of dogs and remove the misidentified APTBs then I'd bet they're neck and neck on a per capita basis. And that's where the human factor comes in. You mismanage a capable animal and you end up with a 4 legged liability.
But now I'm rambling.
I've met probably hundreds of them and adopted them in a county in which it is illegal to have - yes, pit bulls are such a "problem" that no shelter or veterinary in the Miami area will give a shit if you bring a Pitbull - so long as you call them a "terrier mix" or "bulldog mix"
They're powerful dogs with a strong instinct to maul and never let go when they get to fighting. They are certainly a dangerous breed as any powerful animal is, but it isn't due to their temperament and they're certainly not beyond redemption.
Many of their owners certainly are beyond redemption and my introduction to the breed was via stupid family members who shouldn't have got one.
