Does Rashad Evans beat Shogun at 128?

[PunchesOnLunches]

Honestly, I know Shogun was coming off his third ACL reconstruction (and historically, every time Shogun's knee has exploded on him and he needed the doctors to put it back together he's come back a lesser and lesser version of his previous self) but part of me still thinks that Rashad would've been a very winnable fight for him at that point of both of their careers.

I might have to go back and rewatch it but from what I remember Shogun looked like he never recovered from the knee.

I don't have the link or exact article; it was so long ago but it might've been in an interview with Tatami, I think? Murilo Ninja who was in Shogun's corner that night basically said that opening flying knee from Jones stunned him pretty good and he wasn't right for the rest of the fight after that.

 

[Prince Nephilim]

Anybody can win on any given night at the championship level

 

[Jon Stark]

Why am I reading this thread? *Logs off*

 

[Willek]

I remember UFC 128. I was posting on The Underground at the time and the majority of predictions was that Shogun would beat Jon by leg kicks because of Jon’s skinny legs.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I would favor Shogun at the time in a 5 round fight. Rashad's chin wasn't that good and while he had great takedowns his top control was really lacking so Shogun would have had a lot of chances to KO/TKO Rashad in 25 minutes. Shogun still had pretty good sweeps at the time too.

Rashad looked god against Silva and Rmapage before he fought Shogun but he did get rocked against both in the 5th round. Shogun could've definitely caught him.

 

[chimpoehurricane]

if he doesn't get injured?

They didn't fight later on either which was sorta odd. I'd say Rashad was a bit fresher at that point as i think Shogun had the knee surgeries and was out a while before that Jones fight

But what say you?

Shogun looked horrible in ufc. Practically like izy in rd 5 only most of his big ufc fights. I think he was overrated and highly injured in ufc. Shad by boring decisions.

 

[chimpoehurricane]

I remember UFC 128. I was posting on The Underground at the time and the majority of predictions was that Shogun would beat Jon by leg kicks because of Jon’s skinny legs.

Hearts were broken when shogun got pieced up and tapped to strikes. Reminded me of gsp.

 

[chimpoehurricane]

Got me thinkin does Henderson beat Jones at 151?

Hendo did bomb on Fedor after all.

Fedor had been can crushing. Got caught sleeping. It's possible but 1in a million. TRT Hendo has a much better chance.

 

[BowserJr]

Shogun better striker, Rashad better Wrestler. Shogun better Bjj.

50/50 both were top 5 then.

Good call outs. Shogun had a 3rd knee surgery and it wasn't 100% when he fought JBJ so he probably loses to Rashad too but it would've been more competitive than JBJ

That being said if shogun was at least as healthy as he was vs Machida then Shogun beats Rashad handedly.

Healthy Shogun worked every wrestler grappler and beat some of the best strikers out there

 

[Midget Boxer]

Yeah, that's kind of my point, Shogun's ground game was still very good at the time and Rashad's top control wasn't very good so in a 25 minute fight I see Shogun getting the finish at some point cause I don't think Rashad would be able to keep him down and if Shogun swept Rashad he would be in a lot of danger.

Shogun lost to forest, gustafson and chael wrestling him. Coleman was dominating until shogun got injured

That's why I said rashad beats shogun

 

[OmegaRugal]

Probably. Shogun couldn't defend a takedown to save his life. He was like Condit in that regard.

this ^
people forget how bad of a matchup old man Coleman was for Shogun. Chael also tapped him quickly.

good strong wrestlers were Shoguns kryptonite.

 

[OmegaRugal]

Rashad's takedowns were great but his top control wasn't most of the time, he had to get a lot of takedowns to get a decent amount of control time cause people would just get up.

and yet part of Jones/Rashad lead up was Jones admitting that Rashad held him down once in practice.

young and Roided jones … the best wrestler LHW has ever seen.

 

[Willek]

Hearts were broken when shogun got pieced up and tapped to strikes. Reminded me of gsp.

Shogun tapped to Jon Jones and Chael Sonnen.

 

[wildchild88]

That version of shogun was completely stuck in the mud.

 

[Richard Fannin]

Impossible to really know as everybody ignores that Jones opened the fight with a flush flying knee that according to Shogun and his brother badly affected him for the rest of the fight and was his real issue:

]

People try and blame the ass whooping on impossible questions like Shogun's prime or knees instead of this moment which definitely happened, and is the moment he and his team blames his performance on. Worth pointing out too to those people, but he looked great against Forrest and then had the FOTY against Henderson that same year too which further supports how dumb it is to talk about prime or injury issues when Jones, prodigy or not, is the outlier and has this huge moment Shogun and his team point too as having caused it.

Shogun could've looked amazing that night, against Jones or otherwise, without this. We have no idea.

Stylistically I'd have favoured Rashad though.

The flying knee definitely could have been a fight ender had Jones realized how rocked Shogun was (like you said, he later claimed that he was almost out).
So it's difficult to use the Jones fight for comparison.

Shogun vs Rashad was 50/50 at this point, Rua's wrestling wasn't great but his submission game was better than Shad's IMO.
And on the feet, they could both KO each other, so... who knows?

 

[ServantofGOD]

Got me thinkin does Henderson beat Jones at 151?

Hendo did bomb on Fedor after all.

Jones would have been the first to TKO Hendo if this fight happened. Instead Vitor was the man to finish Hendo 2x by KO and Mousasi Tko'd Hendo

Hendo is slow, 1 dimesional striker facing a much taller, stronger opponent. Fedor is similar to Hendos height they are both really 5"11 and at that time both slow also Fedor got caught from under during a grappling exchange. Jones would of wanted to beat Hendo by TKO to be the first to do so at that time. He would of kicked the crap out of Hendos face and legs, and knees, likely damage Hendos knees with those kicks then he would of taken dowk and slammed Hendo moved into side mount or full mount and elbow Hendo until a bloody finish is called.

 

[josh345]

I would favor Shogun at the time in a 5 round fight. Rashad's chin wasn't that good and while he had great takedowns his top control was really lacking so Shogun would have had a lot of chances to KO/TKO Rashad in 25 minutes. Shogun still had pretty good sweeps at the time too.

didn't rashad hold down phil davis? his top control maybe got better? idk.

 

[looq]

I vividly remember when they were matched up at the time and thinking to myself "Rashad via decision" but one wrong move and he's KO'd.

Rashad for a couple of years looked like the best LHW on the roster excluding Jones and I think this timeframe was when Rashad had that period of looking really, really good.

 

[Richard Fannin]

Coleman was dominating until shogun got injured

I'm the biggest Hammer House nutjob here, but no, Mark Coleman didn't "dominate" the 30 seconds before the fight was stopped.
Mark got a takedown, ended up in Rua's guard who tried a triangle, Coleman escaped, Rua tried a heel hook, and after escaping Mark goes for another TD and the good ol' fluke arm-break happened.

Jones would of been the first to TKO Hendo if this fight happened. Instead Vitor was the man to finish Hendo 2x by KO and Mousasi Tko'd Hendo

Hendo is slow, 1 dimesional striker facing a much taller, stronger opponent. Fedor is similar to Hendos height they are both really 5"11 and at that time both slow also Fedor got caught from under during a grappling exchange. Jones would of wanted to beat Hendo by TKO to be the first to do so at that time. He would of kicked the crap out of Hendos face and legs, and knees, likely damage Hendos knees with those kicks then he would of taken dowk and slammed Hendo moved into side mount or full mount and elbow Hendo until a bloody finish is called.

It's "would have". He would have been the first to blablabla.

 

[ServantofGOD]

The flying knee definitely could have been a fight ender had Jones realized how rocked Shogun was (like you said, he later claimed that he was almost out).
So it's difficult to use the Jones fight for comparison.

Shogun vs Rashad was 50/50 at this point, Rua's wrestling wasn't great but his submission game was better than Shad's IMO.
And on the feet, they could both KO each other, so... who knows?

I think Rua wins. Rashad is a vastly inferior striker compared to Rua being a less good wrestler than Rashad. Rashad can hit hard as shown in the Liddell fight but that is unlikely to happen. Every fight starts standing and Shogun would have 5 chances starting standing each round to destroy Rashad. Also Shogun was always good at getting to his feet and sweeps.

Now that I think of it I do wonder why all the Chute Boxe guys generally were poor at defensive wrestling. They could get to their feet but it is interesting how easy they were to takedown generally speaking.