Does know one realize this? Kamaru Usman is shaping up to be the GOAT

Shaddows said:
Sorry, but that's just stupid.
You have against Fedor and Silva was their... decline?
Fedor was unbeaten for a decade. Has Usman done that?
Silva moved up, beat LHW's.
Israel did not los in his division. WHy do you take it as a negative against him, but the fact he (at least) tried is more than we got from Usman.

You don't know how Usman will decline. So how can you claim it will be better than Silva or Fedor?

I am not opposed from you calling him GOAT.
But your case... it just lacks any logic.
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Glad you typed it because I was going to sir.
Some people are clueless and this cat consistently shows that he's in that category.
 
But he has the "fighting the same competition over and over", like Cain had. You could argue that Masvidal and Colby weren't the most deserving in those rematches (level of competition).

But the bigger point is number of defenses. All weight classes have had 1 dominant fighter over the rest. If Usman surpasses GSP he's automatically in the conversation. To me it's Jones, because of overall competition and arguably only losing once from 2011-2020. 9 years straight all title fights.
 
- Weak strength of schedule / fighting cans (Fedor, Jones)

LOL you have got to be kidding, their resumes have way better names on than Usman LOL.. who has Usman beat? Clobby? does Clobby even have a top 20 win??! Usman is good but he has beat nowhere near the levels that Fedor and Jones did. Another clueless new fan with a 6 month memory
 
MXZT said:
Hey my friend. What do you think of current Fedor chances against a guy like Ciryl Gane or even Ngannou?
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Current Fedor? Oof. Puncher’s chance, honestly. That said, Fedor finds his opponent’s chin most of the time. Even in the Mitrione loss, he tagged and dropped Mitrione. That combo he landed on Johnson was so powerful and accurate that I think it would smoke any fighter in the world if he can land it. But while Fedor’s knee surgery brought back a lot of mobility, I don’t think 45 year old Fedor is faster than Gane or Ngannou. Prime Fedor exploits their ground game weaknesses I think, but current Fedor can barely grapple.

People flame me when I say this, but I actually like current Fedor’s chances against Derrick Lewis. Also guys like Tuivasa, Daukaus, Tybura, Chris Barnett…I think the Johnson fight showed that Fedor is still faster than guys like that.
 
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BFoe said:
Current Fedor? Oof. Puncher’s chance, honestly. That said, Fedor finds his opponent’s chin most of the time. Even in the Mitrione loss, he tagged and dropped Mitrione. That combo he landed on Johnson was so powerful and accurate that I think it would smoke any fighter in the world if he can land it. But while Fedor’s knee surgery brought back a lot of mobility, I don’t think 45 year old Fedor is faster than Gane or Ngannou. Prime Fedor exploits their ground game weaknesses I think, but current Fedor can barely grapple.

People flame me when I say this, but I actually like current Fedor’s chances against Derrick Lewis. Also guys like Tuivasa, Daukaus, Tybura, Chris Barnett…I think the Johnson fight showed that Fedor is still faster than guys like that.
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You're not an idiot sir, you are only speaking the truth.
In speaking the truth it scares those that lack the knowledge to combat that truth.

Keep speaking sir, some of us have the knowledge to know that you're right.
 
BFoe said:
Yeah those were Affliction. Ultimately, any MMA fan making a GOAT list will have to weight the significance of his losses out for themselves. I’ll offer a few points though.
—A lot of people like to say Fedor only won in Japan, and “what happened when he came to the U.S.??” The answer is, he won his first 4 straight fights, all by finish, against opponents that included 3 former UFC champs. (Coleman 2, Sylvia, Arlovski, Rogers).
—It’s worth noting the order. Coleman 2 was a PRIDE event in Vegas (regulated by NSAC and fought under Unified Rules), and that was followed by wins over Hunt (PRIDE, Japan), Lindland (Bodog, Russia).Choi (Yarrenoka! Japan), Sylvia, (Aflfliction, US), Arlovski (Affliction, US), and Rogers (Strikeforce, US). Then came the losses. So fighting in the US isn’t the problem. Fighting under the Unified Rules isn’t the problem (although it certainly limited him a bit). We basically have 2 possible major causes: decline, or the cage as opposed to ring.
—Overeem is a beast, one of my fave fighters. Post PED failure, he fought 19 fights, and went 11-8. He has 19 losses overall. Fedor has 5 legit losses in 21 years, and 2 of those didn’t happen until he returned from retirement at age 38. Since Strikeforce, he is 9-2. Since returning from retirement, 6-2. If you wanted to just look at fights regulated by US commissions, it’s 4-2. And one of those 2 losses was pretty flukey (Mitrione).

Fedor at age 45 just smoked a dude with wins over UFC Top 10 guys (Johnson was robbed of a win over a UFC top 5 guy as well). Fedor has Los 2/3 of his skills, but it’s not like he can’t win a fight lol.
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Overeem has been fighting contenders this whole time though. And that loss against Rozen was also arguably a fluke. And if he hadn't went for that choke against Stipe, and did GnP instead, he might have even been champ !

Fedor looked good those first few fights, then he fell off a cliff. Didn't lose his skills, but something major was gone.

Obviously Fedor's career is amazing, he's in GOAT talks. I'm just bringing up common criticisms of him. If Kamaru gets past Khamzat and strings together a few more title defenses, he will be free of many / most of the common criticisms against GOAT contenders. He'll be like Jon Jones but without the PED violations.
 
maximus__ said:
Pound for pound worst threadstarter in the heavies.

He has beaten the same 3 opponents for all his defences. With nobody actually earning a second shot at him or fighting any other top guy for that rematch.
His title reign won't hold up to any of the people above. His best win is still Colby with Colby's best win being WW RDA who lost to the whole top 5.
It just doesn't hold up at all.
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Colby and Burns are both top, top guys. Stop hating ! Both would be champs if the other two guys didn't exist.
 
StonedLemur said:
Glad you typed it because I was going to sir.
Some people are clueless and this cat consistently shows that he's in that category.
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I'm not making those criticisms fellas. I'm summarizing the most common criticisms other people bring against Fedor and AS. Pay attention, please.
 
HI SCOTT NEWMAN said:
- Weak strength of schedule / fighting cans (Fedor, Jones)

LOL you have got to be kidding, their resumes have way better names on than Usman LOL.. who has Usman beat? Clobby? does Clobby even have a top 20 win??! Usman is good but he has beat nowhere near the levels that Fedor and Jones did. Another clueless new fan with a 6 month memory
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Colby gave the champ his toughest 2 fights, so it doesn't quite make sense that you claim he's not good. Is there anyone at WW besides Usman you think he should have fought that he can't beat?
 
Been following Oos since TuF. Very enjoyable watching his career unfold and seeing him dominate the Division.

He is certainly on his way to being "One Of".

Yvx6u0C.gif
 
StonedLemur said:
You're not an idiot sir, you are only speaking the truth.
In speaking the truth it scares those that lack the knowledge to combat that truth.

Keep speaking sir, some of us have the knowledge to know that you're right.
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Haha thank you for the kind words and vote of confidence, my friend :)
SouthpawSouthernFist said:
Overeem has been fighting contenders this whole time though. And that loss against Rozen was also arguably a fluke. And if he hadn't went for that choke against Stipe, and did GnP instead, he might have even been champ !

Fedor looked good those first few fights, then he fell off a cliff. Didn't lose his skills, but something major was gone.

Obviously Fedor's career is amazing, he's in GOAT talks. I'm just bringing up common criticisms of him. If Kamaru gets past Khamzat and strings together a few more title defenses, he will be free of many / most of the common criticisms against GOAT contenders. He'll be like Jon Jones but without the PED violations.
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I know what you’re saying, and I don’t mean to derail the thread with Fedor talk. I just want to put things in perspective.
—I agree the UFC offers better competition overall. But look at some of Reem’s wins: Arlovski was old AF, Werdum was old, Nelson was old and looked like shit, Hunt was old AF, Oleinik is practically the Crypt Keeper from Tales from the Crypt at this point. <45>Reem benefited from some old legends fights too.
—Fedor did lose his skills though. His grappling declined starting in ‘08 when he lost in sambo to Ivanov. He broke his hands against Goodridge, the injury came back and postponed the Mirko fight, it happened again against Hunt, and yet again against Sylvia (that’s why Fedor grabbed the RNC against Sylvia rather than GnP—he broke his hands). We know he’s had fucked up knees for quite some time, his nose is perma-fucked since the Rogers fight, and his striking got super sloppy. Find me an example of Fedor throwing a jab even, in those 3 losses. It’s quite obvious injuries had piled up and he was significantly diminished.

Renan Barao fell off a cliff.
BJ Penn fell off a cliff.
Anderson Silva fell off a cliff.
Fedor had 3 losses, and they were the only ones he’d ever had.
 
BFoe said:
Haha thank you for the kind words and vote of confidence, my friend :)

I know what you’re saying, and I don’t mean to derail the thread with Fedor talk. I just want to put things in perspective.
—I agree the UFC offers better competition overall. But look at some of Reem’s wins: Arlovski was old AF, Werdum was old, Nelson was old and looked like shit, Hunt was old AF, Oleinik is practically the Crypt Keeper from Tales from the Crypt at this point. <45>Reem benefited from some old legends fights too.
—Fedor did lose his skills though. His grappling declined starting in ‘08 when he lost in sambo to Ivanov. He broke his hands against Goodridge, the injury came back and postponed the Mirko fight, it happened again against Hunt, and yet again against Sylvia (that’s why Fedor grabbed the RNC against Sylvia rather than GnP—he broke his hands). We know he’s had fucked up knees for quite some time, his nose is perma-fucked since the Rogers fight, and his striking got super sloppy. Find me an example of Fedor throwing a jab even, in those 3 losses. It’s quite obvious injuries had piled up and he was significantly diminished.

Renan Barao fell off a cliff.
BJ Penn fell off a cliff.
Anderson Silva fell off a cliff.
Fedor had 3 losses, and they were the only ones he’d ever had.
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0c4.gif
 
BFoe said:
Current Fedor? Oof. Puncher’s chance, honestly. That said, Fedor finds his opponent’s chin most of the time. Even in the Mitrione loss, he tagged and dropped Mitrione. That combo he landed on Johnson was so powerful and accurate that I think it would smoke any fighter in the world if he can land it. But while Fedor’s knee surgery brought back a lot of mobility, I don’t think 45 year old Fedor is faster than Gane or Ngannou. Prime Fedor exploits their ground game weaknesses I think, but current Fedor can barely grapple.

People flame me when I say this, but I actually like current Fedor’s chances against Derrick Lewis. Also guys like Tuivasa, Daukaus, Tybura, Chris Barnett…I think the Johnson fight showed that Fedor is still faster than guys like that.
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Well said, thank you for your insight.
 
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