Does Eddie's loss prove the UFC isn't as deep as it seems?

[Mattitude V1]

Eddie Alvarez, who is a former UFC lightweight champ, just got demolished in the first round by a random fighter from Singapore. This got me thinking about depth of talent around the world. Traditionally the sport has been centered around the USA market and has been dominated by mainly USA fighters, but what if as MMA becomes more and more international, we start seeing the ONE and other promotions start to get elite fighters from remote locations?

I always wondered if like some dude in a bar in Kazakhstan, or China who could just have their way with modern fighters. Kind of like how BJJ changed the entire game, I wonder if there is some style that has yet to be tested or scene in modern MMA.

The problem with MMA fans is this idea that fighters outside the UFC are all terrible. The UFC doesn’t create fighters in a lab. They all come from elsewhere. There is no logic to the idea that Eddie Alvarez’s loss in ONE is reflective of the UFC.

Alvarez went 4-3-1 in the UFC, but is one of the LW GOATs.Timofey Nastyukhin is 13-4 in the UFC. No one believes he would wreck shop in the UFC and we all know he wouldn’t. So what’s the point of even raising questions like this?

 

[8100]

I always wondered how Americans would do if they go overseas and are not allowed to cut too much weight. In nearly every combat sport, whether MT, Lethwei, Boxing, KB, or MMA, they nearly always are the bigger guys come fight time.

I still feel that if Matt Hughes had fought Sakurai on neutral grounds (or even in the UFC) but not permitted to cut weight and they both weigh the same (or no more than a 2-3 lbs difference) Sakurai would have defeated Hughes. But because Hughes had such a size advantage (and thus strength), Sakurai could not overcome it with his skills.

Why I’m mentioning the above... Well because Eddie was the smaller guy against his One FC opponent and so got handled. Mighty Mouse also looked to be a tad smaller than his opponent and thus had a hard time. Sure MM won, but he struggled up until that beautiful choke. The no name random Japanese guy actually did pretty good imo, better than some UFC opponents.

Perhaps Amrican/UFC fighters are not as good when size advantage is eliminated (and/or when they are the smaller guys)?

How does American's have size advantage if everyone is cutting weight? Nothing is stopping fighters from around the world from cutting weight. In fact cutting too much weight can be a disadvantage. At 170 Whitaker was meh but when he stopped cutting so much weight and moved to 185 he went on a crazy tear and is now champ.

We clearly saw that Eddie's opponent was much bigger, besides, Eddie is rarely the bigger guy at LW, so what point exactly are you making here?

Isn't your goal to make the fights even as fair as possible (concerning weight) not skewed in the favor of the non-American fighter? MM is almost always the smaller fighter, so what's your point? Some guy who has a size advantage was able to hang in there a bit longer because of his size advantage.

Also, where is all the data on One FC weight cutting? We literally have to take their word at what they say concerning weight cutting, that they're not giving favoritism to any fighters?

Here's a One FC weigh in and they only say "she's good to go" for the weigh ins and don't even announce the weight. We literally have to take their word for it as far as I can tell.



EDIT: Also, Eddie has posted that he suffered an eye injury during the fight. His post is in this thread.

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/eddies-eye-injury.3939423/

 

[8100]

Eddie beat Gilbert(SF LW Champion). When they weren't in the UFC, many people wondered who would win if they fought.


Strikeforce open to Bellator co-promotion, Gilbert Melendez vs. Eddie Alvarez: A potential fight...
56
posted by Nick Thomas on May 17, 2010

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/5/17/1476096/strikeforce-open-to-bellator-co

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/ufc-188-eddie-alvarez-vs-gilbert-melendez-pbp-discussion.3009241/


Before loosing to Eddie, Gilbert had only lost to Benson & Pettis in Championship fights, in the UFC.

Eddie then beat Anthony Pettis. Pettis had just lost the LW belt to RDA and was the # 1 contender.

So after beating the # 1 contender, Eddie got the Title shot. And don't pretend that Khabib should have gotten the fight. At that time, his only big win was RDA and he had only fought once in the last 2 years. That is why Eddie got the Title shot.


Eddie got hurt in his last fight. That is why he lost. Watch the fight. When he got hit in the eye, you quickly can see that something is very wrong.


skip to (4:00)

Exactly, good post, any post that is placed right can cause a fight ending injury. Eddie was a legit title contender and won the right to compete for the belt fair and square.

 

[It's-Only-Business]

Eddie's UFC record isnt exactly special, he got the belt but lost it in his first title defense, overall UFC record is 4-3-1, that NC should had been another loss, and i consider his win over Pettis a robbery...Eddie is not the best example of how deep is the UFC.

At the highest levels of 155. Check out his UFC resume and try to repeat that he's not elite . Cerrone, Pettis, RDA, McGregor, Poirier, Gaethje, and Melendez 6 champs! (And Poirier is fighting for interim!)

 

[Ling Ling]

Eddie Alvarez is one of the best LW's in the history of the sport. He's near the end of his career now but to discount his accomplishments the way some people do is quite astonishing to me.
Over the course of his career he's beaten Hansen, Kawajiri, Aoki, Chandler, Pettis, RDA, Gaethje, Melendez, Pitbull and held the UFC strap as well as Bellator, Dream and Bodog. If you examine the ranking of his opposition at the time he fought them, he stacks up quite nicely in LW history.
For a 10 year period he was ranked in the top 10.
Eddie's loss proves that anyone can lose in a fight. It happens.

 

[brownsmith76]

Eddie Alvarez, who is a former UFC lightweight champ, just got demolished in the first round by a random fighter from Singapore.

This is the UFC's multi-million dollar marketing machine at work. They want you to think they have the best fighters in the world, so when someone goes on a win streak, you automatically assume that he or she is the greatest of all time.



Joe Rogan said Ronda Rousey was the greatest female fighter in human history.

Daniel Cormier, one of the best UFC fighters, was a Strikeforce fighter.

Sherdog commenters were bashing other organizations like Strikeforce.

If Strikeforce was still around today with Cormier, then UFC fanboys would be bashing Cormier for being non-UFC.

 

[King of Fists]

conor took his soul

Except he beat Gaethje after losing to McGregor, but sure

He has taken a shitload of damage over his career, he should retire after his next win.

 

[cheesus]

Eddie has been on the decline his past few fights, he gets rocked in basically every fight and plays a very dangerous game of stand n wang. Any fighter can lose on any given day, who knows...his opponent might be better than people realize. I think there is a bit too much mystique around the UFC rankings, I'm sure if you picked any 10 journeyman and threw them in the mix they potentially beat ranked opposition.

 

[boss429]

At the end of the day, they are all fighters made of flesh and blood. There is always a possibility someone like Khabib goes to some russian MMA event and gets KOed by some local talent. Unlikely? Yeah. Impossible? No.

Not long ago, bellator's BW champ (Caldwell) got submitted by Horiguchi in Rizin.
I know Horiguchi used to fight for UFC, but he wasn't champ and he is in a japanese event now.

Not really a great example, Horiguchi left the UFC in a 3 fight winning streak and 7-1 over all with his lone loss being the last second sub too MM, he hasn't lost since but was being soundly beaten by Caldwell before catching the sub.

 

[Rhood]

USADA doesn't exist outside of America.
It's not far fetched to believe that fighters in Asia are on PED's.

So before you go bananas over fighters competing at ONE-FC, just realize that once they enter the UFC they become inferior.

 

[Highflyer]

How does American's have size advantage if everyone is cutting weight? Nothing is stopping fighters from around the world from cutting weight. In fact cutting too much weight can be a disadvantage. At 170 Whitaker was meh but when he stopped cutting so much weight and moved to 185 he went on a crazy tear and is now champ.

We clearly saw that Eddie's opponent was much bigger, besides, Eddie is rarely the bigger guy at LW, so what point exactly are you making here?

Isn't your goal to make the fights even as fair as possible (concerning weight) not skewed in the favor of the non-American fighter? MM is almost always the smaller fighter, so what's your point? Some guy who has a size advantage was able to hang in there a bit longer because of his size advantage.

Also, where is all the data on One FC weight cutting? We literally have to take their word at what they say concerning weight cutting, that they're not giving favoritism to any fighters?

Here's a One FC weigh in and they only say "she's good to go" for the weigh ins and don't even announce the weight. We literally have to take their word for it as far as I can tell.



EDIT: Also, Eddie has posted that he suffered an eye injury during the fight. His post is in this thread.

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/eddies-eye-injury.3939423/

In the past the Americans have always had the size advantage. Pretty much watch any Japanese/Asian vs American fights and it’s usually the American who is bigger... My only proof is with my working eyes watching and comparing the size difference. Not an exact science.

Sure the foreign opponent has the chance to weightcut as well. But often they don’t, or just do little, or don’t know how to achieve the optimal level. Americans have done it for a long time, and are encouraged to do so, and are used to it, and have perfected it. Thus they usually have this advantage.

Again my point is that I have always wanted to see an American fight a foreigner where both fighters are the same size or where the American is the smaller one. Not questioning the methods, rules, or fairness of it. Just wanted to see what the result will be like when the American lacks the weightcut advantage... So far it looks like the American performance is not as good when their size advantage is factored out.

 

[YourfatherII]

Eddie Alvarez, who is a former UFC lightweight champ, just got demolished in the first round by a random fighter from Singapore. This got me thinking about depth of talent around the world. Traditionally the sport has been centered around the USA market and has been dominated by mainly USA fighters, but what if as MMA becomes more and more international, we start seeing the ONE and other promotions start to get elite fighters from remote locations?

I always wondered if like some dude in a bar in Kazakhstan, or China who could just have their way with modern fighters. Kind of like how BJJ changed the entire game, I wonder if there is some style that has yet to be tested or scene in modern MMA.

I agree with the premise that their are plenty of non-ufc fighters that are very talented, and plenty of them have been hired by the UFC. Timofey is not a can and comes to fight. Not to mention he is juiced to the gills clearly. Then you have the fact that Eddie probably didn’t take him as serious as he should have, and voila, he gets finished quick. It’s mma, and all these guys are pro fighters, it happens.

 

[Timurd123]

it proves eddie is done
physically has was done before UFC and now he is completely mentally checked out
conor took his soul

Lol he def wasn’t shot when he entered the UFC and he isn’t shot now, he is past his prime for sure, but he’s not BJ Penn , Nate Marquardt, Ben Saunders level shot


The reality is the guy who beat him would beat quite a few guys in the UFC

 

[snaportap21]

it proves eddie is done
physically has was done before UFC and now he is completely mentally checked out
conor took his soul

I wouldn’t be so sure, his eye was seriously damaged. That’s why he went down. Had the punches he took not almost cause his eye to explode, it would’ve been a better fight. Mousasi Schlmenko comes to mind. Mousasi walked away with a Dan Henderson (or Ben Henderson now that I think about it) type decision. He was not the same level of dangerous with that swelling. Alvarez got unlucky. Like Kos, first punch breaks orbital, etc. Eddie still might’ve lost had he been good, though. That guy had serious power.

 

[SherdogFan23]

Eddie is past his prime. There are no surprises about him losing some fights. The UFC 155 division is stacked with better talent than any organization.

 

[Katsumi Yamada]

Add Rory McDonald, Mousasi, Bader.
Bellator
HW - Mitrione, Kongo, Sonnen, Kongo, Rampage
LHW - Bader, Davis
MW - Mousasi
WW- Rory, Fitch, Daley , Larkin
LW - Bendo

These guys on the most part went over on losing streaks and now dominate the second biggest MMA promotion.
Obvious exceptions

"For the most part"?

Out of 13 guys you mentioned, 2 left the UFC on losing streaks (Rory and Mitrione).
Both have since lost in Bellator.

 

[TR1]

Not really, Eddie wasn’t in the ufc for that long and despite winning a title his performances weren’t great. It’s just proves that his win I’ve RDA was a fluke and he’s a fringe top 15 LW

Literally just beat Geathje, who's nuts everyone is sucking, and suddenly he is barely top 15.

SMH

 

[lsu480]

Just proves Conor took his soul

 

[kingjim]

"For the most part"?

Out of 13 guys you mentioned, 2 left the UFC on losing streaks (Rory and Mitrione).
Both have since lost in Bellator.

Mate before you spit crap...
Rory number 1 ranked ww in bellator lost to mousasi a larger guy.. mitrione was on a 4 fight winning streak until he lost to another ufc reject in bader.
I could go through that whole list and you would be exposed.

 

[Aberlour]

it proves the only people who believe the UFC is premier org are the shills that feast on Dana's crumbs.