Does a failed drug test matter in the GOAT discussion?

[daemusvladornu]

TRT is roids.

That is a very uneducated response. Yes, TRT is raising your testosterone... But it's regulated my medical supervision. Pumping anabolic steroids is a completely different story. Not that I feel either belong in sports.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

That is a very uneducated response. Yes, TRT is raising your testosterone... But it's regulated my medical supervision. Pumping anabolic steroids is a completely different story. Not that I feel either belong in sports.

Testosterone is an anabolic steroid. People who try to obscure the difference between TRT and "pumping anabolic steroids" are shills for companies involved in pushing TRT.

 

[oldschoolmmafan]

nah. I don't really care. I don't think getting caught for the thing that everyone does in secret is a problem.

Back to TS,one off maybe not, repetitive drug cheats must be called into question and their career placed with one big asterisks.

 

[JoshR86]

Bodybuilding?

Hahaha

There is a clean division in body building where they are tested. If the winner is caught cheating they strip his award. Obviously...

 

[oldschoolmmafan]

I think if you have to use PED... That you're a joke. I always found Vitor Belfort entertaining. But it didn't change the fact if he wasn't on TRT or roids he got his ass handed to him by any relevant fighter.

Belfort is one of the biggest drug cheats in the sport.

 

[JoshR86]

Testosterone is an anabolic steroid. People who try to obscure the difference between TRT and "pumping anabolic steroids" are shills for companies involved in pushing TRT.

There is no difference between the testosterone your body naturally produces and the synthetic testosterone you inject.

 

[JoshR86]

Shawne Merriman made it to the Pro Bowl the same year in which he was suspended for steroid abuse.

Your off topic. I never had a problem with Jon Jones walking into a title shot when his suspension was done. I have no problem with Jon Jones fighting for a title when this suspension finishes.

That is not what were discussing here.

 

[The Audience]

Not for me, but i think in the post usada-era ufc' someone who really stamps a legacy deserves a more favorable standing in history because theyre doing so ostensibly clean. That still doesnt take away from the greats of the past who were competing against fighters of similarly unknown ped status.

 

[killakillakilla]

No not at all because everyone in pride and ufc were juicing back in the day.

 

[DS66]

What annoys me is when people completely discount all of Anderson's and Jon's accomplishments due to getting caught, but believe Fedor is the GOAT simply because he never had a failed drug test. Everyone in Pride was juicing, particularly the fighter from Russia (where EVERY athlete juices) who was beating everyone in Pride. You're just being naive and ignorant if you actually believe Fedor never juiced.

Just be consistent. But if you hate everyone who has juiced in MMA, you won't have many fighters left to cheer for.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

There is no difference between the testosterone your body naturally produces and the synthetic testosterone you inject.

Both are anabolic steroids.

 

[Dmurr90]

Whenever there is a competition in question if you cheat the rules it doesn't count. Like I could play mario kart solo and use a cheat device and get a time I would have otherwise not been able to get.
now can I expect all the other opposing players to keep up with my time while obeying the rules even though I chose not to obey the rules? not an even field

 

[true_fan]

Roids means you can’t win without cheating = fail=all your wins are fake

 

[Agnawedbone]

It definitely has an effect but doesn't totally eliminate accomplishment. Jones probably would have been champ without roids, but a couple of his closer wins easily could have been losses. Still a great fighter, but sure as fuck not top five.

Same with Silva. In the past it would be hard to say who was better, him or GSP, but not anymore. Georges>>>>>Anderson

 

[JoshR86]

Both are anabolic steroids.

Wrong.

Anabolic steroids are compounds that include natural androgens (testosterone) *as well as* synthetic androgens that are structurally related and have similar effects to testosterone.

Testosterone by itself is not considered a steroid.

 

[Blayt7hh]

No. They'd all have tested positive for something if USADA was around day 1 and in PRIDE

You're kind of right, but here is the thing about that when it comes to Jones and Anderson. They did test positive in the USADA era, meaning we know that they did have an advantage over their more than likely clean opponents. It would be a little easier to forgive if it at happened pre-usada, since then there would have been a much better chance that their opponents were on it as well and just not getting caught

 

[JoshR86]

What annoys me is when people completely discount all of Anderson's and Jon's accomplishments due to getting caught, but believe Fedor is the GOAT simply because he never had a failed drug test. Everyone in Pride was juicing, particularly the fighter from Russia (where EVERY athlete juices) who was beating everyone in Pride. You're just being naive and ignorant if you actually believe Fedor never juiced.

Just be consistent. But if you hate everyone who has juiced in MMA, you won't have many fighters left to cheer for.

Except, and this is where there is a substantial difference. When did Fedor fail a drug test that his opponent passed??

Are we going to pretend that DC and Jon Jones were on an even playing field??

Now are you going to insinuate that Fedor held the same advantage over his opponents as Jon Jones did over DC??

 

[aRtFuL]

For sports like sprinting and weightlifting where it is 99% reliant on physical performance? yes.

For fight sports it is a bit more blur imo - because at the end of the day fight sport is a skill-based sport. Drugs can improve your physical ability but not necessarily how your brain wires in terms of situational response and skillset.

 

[JoshR86]

For sports like sprinting and weightlifting where it is 99% reliant on physical performance? yes.

For fight sports it is a bit more blur imo - because at the end of the day fight sport is a skill-based sport. Drugs can improve your physical ability but not necessarily how your brain wires in terms of situational response and skillset.

Situational responses is greatly effected by your physical endurance as well as the execution of your skills.

So steroids will have a great effect on both and is why fighters like Jon Jones would rely on them so heavily when the price tag is so high

 

[aRtFuL]

Situational responses is greatly effected by your physical endurance as well as the execution of your skills.

So steroids will have a great effect on both and is why fighters like Jon Jones would rely on them so heavily when the price tag is so high

I agree. Hence I why I think it is a blur - it probably still affects the goat discussion greatly, but not absolute to the extent of cycling, sprinting, swimming, etc. where there is pretty much no question that PEDs 100% does affect outcome.