International Do you support toppling the Iranian Regime?

[Big Nasty Edison]

When will Americans realize regime change never works and is partly why the ME is in the shape it's in?

 

[William Huggins]

Why would anybody "make a deal" with Trump when he has already established that NO agreement will remain in force? ie) Trump is the one that unilaterally destroyed the hard won and negotiated non-proliferation agreement that led to Iran ramping up it's nuclear program.

Morever, it's not just that agreement, or the tripartite free trade agreement with Mexico and Canada he blew up (after his administration blew up Nafta and negotiated the last agreement) it is that he is single handedly destroying the United States' reputation and standing GLOBALLY.

I don't believe Trump has ever won a game of chess against an adult, let alone the 4d chess his cult members believe him to employ. Not content with destroying the USA, Trump seeks to destroy the world.

Iran didn't give a shit, it's always wanted nukes, to say they reacted to whatever Muppet that calls themselves a president is a joke......they haven't and will not stop, UN inspection is a joke.......Stuxnet was about 20 years ago..... They've been chasing it way before....... They started heavy during and straight after the Iran, Iraq war in the 80's.

Your only way now is a regime change and Israel are doing the dirty work again......

 

[William Huggins]

When will Americans realize regime change never works and is partly why the ME is in the shape it's in?

They've got no choice now, because Iran will not stop till they get them nukes and yes this all probably started back in the 80's with the war with Iraq.......

 

[Ezekiel 25:17]

I support toppling the corrupt zionist regime. Would solve a lot.

 

[filthybliss]

How many nuclear powers need to be in bombed before people stop overrating the nuclear deterrent?

2 right now. 4 this year. Sample size is 9.

Good luck toppling a totalitarian regime with nukes.

They don’t protect you from attacks but they certainly leash other countries from threatening you.

 

[Madmick]

When will Americans realize regime change never works and is partly why the ME is in the shape it's in?

Regime change with Hitler and Imperial Japan worked pretty well.

 

[avenue94]

Regime change with Hitler and Imperial Japan worked pretty well.

Germany took two (or more if you count the occupation zones) tries and both required long term occupations that incorporated lots of bad people. Ya know, what all the Iran's current regime or Hamas must go people claim we can't do.

Can't change a regime successfully without big compromises.

Also lol at let's focus on the exception not the rule. Grasping at rhetorical straws.

 

[Madmick]

Germany took two (or more if you count the occupation zones) tries and both required long term occupations that incorporated lots of bad people. Ya know, what all the Iran's current regime or Hamas must go people claim we can't do.

Can't change a regime successfully without big compromises.

And removing key leadership.

Also lol at let's focus on the exception not the rule. Grasping at rhetorical straws.

Concession accepted.

 

[filthybliss]

Regime change with Hitler and Imperial Japan worked pretty well.

WW2 was literally an existential fight in a Pre-Nuclear Age….Shit changed drastically since the developement of nuclear power and the Cold War. Better examples, you could have used were Sierra Leone or Grenada.

Nation Building from Iran has to come within. Nowadays, Polticians don’t have the interest or the investment to rebuild and institute stable +secular democracies in every corner of the world.

Germany had a democratic framework prior and a shared nation-wide identity prior to the Nazi Era that we had to just rewind and recalibrate to. Also, both of those regimes had air tight borders which didn’t leave them susceptible to destabilizing influences in the region. So we were not exactly starting from complete scratch.

Iraq (Mesopotamia), Afghanistan and a lot of other Middle Eastern Countries are much younger nation states in contrast and they need to time to coalesce a nation wide identity. Stuff like Operation Cyclone certainly didn’t help anybody looking in hindsight….

 

[Cid]

Good luck toppling a totalitarian regime with nukes.

They don’t protect you from attacks but they certainly leash other country’s from threatening you.

Did it to the USSR. Perfectly capable of doing it to Russia right now.

Iran is getting bombed because they may or may not be getting nuclear weapons.

Pretty big flaw in the nuclear security logic people ignore. Getting you and your citizens killed because you pursued a weapon system you thought would make you safer. Going to protect myself from this country that might attack me by giving them an excuse for preemptive invasion... too dumb and horrific to call it irony.

 

[A Very Serious Cat]

 

[IanEdwards]

In theory, I do support overthrowing every theocracy in the world (Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Pakistan).

totally trivial nitpicking but it isn't accurate to list Pakistan as a theocracy in the same sense that Iran and Saudi are. Its (officially) a Federal Parliamentary Republic- even the concept of having elections (however dubious they might be in Pakistan), even the concept of having any political parties other than the religious authorities, would be absolute anathema to a true theocracy. As would (EG) the fairly significant socialist origins of the PPP, as would be the outsize role of the Army and ISI in both State and commercial power, etc etc etc.

 

[Phlog]

I support targeting Iran’s nuclear facilities at most, but Netanyahu and Trump seem to want to flatten the entire country, not just disarm it of nuclear capabilities.

At this point, Iran is not going to "unconditionally" surrender, largely because they don’t trust Trump to prevent Israel from attacking them.

Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but Trump was reportedly in talks with the Iranians and told Bibi (Netanyahu) to stand down. Bibi decided to launch the attack anyway, fully aware that Israel alone couldn’t destroy Iran’s nuclear facilities—many of which are buried deep in mountains like Swiss cheese. Israel doesn’t have the bunker-busting capability to neutralize them completely, so they’re counting on us to finish the job—without even consulting us.

America was used to prepare for and obfuscate the attack. America will be used for its weapons and observation etc to complete the mission.

Of course you were consulted, I mean told what was going to happen.

Where's the Epstein files eh?

 

[Mock Artwork]

Did it to the USSR. Perfectly capable of doing it to Russia right now.

Iran is getting bombed because they may or may not be getting nuclear weapons.

Pretty big flaw in the nuclear security logic people ignore. Getting you and your citizens killed because you pursued a weapon system you thought would make you safer. Going to protect myself from this country that might attack me by giving them an excuse for preemptive invasion... too dumb and horrific to call it irony.

The amount of bravado here is crazy. You know, this worked so well for Iraq, Afghanistan, Guatemala, Libya, or IRAN. Where we are at today is directly correlated with what you just described. It creates power vacuums that are usually filled by extremists because you just centralized yourself as the enemy instead of the countries own shitty regime.

 

[IanEdwards]

The amount of bravado here is crazy. You know, this worked so well for Iraq, Afghanistan, Guatemala, Libya, or IRAN. Where we are at today is directly correlated with what you just described. It creates power vacuums that are usually filled by extremists because you just centralized yourself as the enemy instead of the countries own shitty regime.

For fucks sake read a history book.

i think it would be unrealistic to expect anything to arise from the putative ashes of a regime-toppled Iran that isn't some new version of the same old thing. I would imagine the repressive state apparatus in Iran has pretty much destroyed any chance of there being a structured opposition-in-waiting, there is no civil society in that sense I imagine. And as you say, power vacuums and decimated regimes, anarchic times, seem to most readily empower the nastiest, best-armed, most experienced in the organisation and monopolization of violence and most ruthless, ergo islamist nutcases, not to mention that fact that whatever survives of the Revolutionary Guard are tailor-made to win any conflict for primacy.

 

[IanEdwards]

its also worth mentioning that when the Ayatollah swept to power he had a considerable amount of support among normal Iranians. That may well have decreased over the years but we shouldn't underestimate the appeal of stability, which only strong gov't, ergo only the Islamist nutters, can provide in Iran.

 

[Mock Artwork]

i think it would be unrealistic to expect anything to arise from the putative ashes of a regime-toppled Iran that isn't some new version of the same old thing. I would imagine the repressive state apparatus in Iran has pretty much destroyed any chance of there being a structured opposition-in-waiting, there is no civil society in that sense I imagine. And as you say, power vacuums and decimated regimes, anarchic times, seem to most readily empower the nastiest, best-armed, most experienced in the organisation and monopolization of violence and most ruthless, ergo islamist nutcases, not to mention that fact that whatever survives of the Revolutionary Guard are tailor-made to win any conflict for primacy.

Likely in the case of Iran they would have a puppet government installed, probably administered by Saudi Arabia. Yet another government installed whose interests aren’t aligned with the population. Then the ‘enemy’ becomes way more complicated. You’d think we would learn after how many fucking years, but nope.

If the strikes are limited to nuclear capabilities then alright, but regime change (which will obviously happen) is a complete clusterfuck that will drag us another thirty or more years into another economic struggle with Russia/China. I’m not even convinced the nuke argument is a great one. I seem to remember a certain country that just fucking fired off weapons over other countries and acted belligerent, we just called their leader Rocket Man. The difference? Massive oil reserves and the Strait of Hormuz.

 

[filthybliss]

Did it to the USSR. Perfectly capable of doing it to Russia right now.

Iran is getting bombed because they may or may not be getting nuclear weapons.

Pretty big flaw in the nuclear security logic people ignore. Getting you and your citizens killed because you pursued a weapon system you thought would make you safer. Going to protect myself from this country that might attack me by giving them an excuse for preemptive invasion... too dumb and horrific to call it irony.

That happened from within the USSR though.

 

[filthybliss]

What the fuck are you even talking about anymore?

How does Iran supplying HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of lethal drones to Russia inconvenience Israel?

Israel and Iran at war right now….Let them duke it out. We already fought Iraq for them.

@Islam Imamate @Rod1 come get your mans

 

[filthybliss]

totally trivial nitpicking but it isn't accurate to list Pakistan as a theocracy in the same sense that Iran and Saudi are. Its (officially) a Federal Parliamentary Republic- even the concept of having elections (however dubious they might be in Pakistan), even the concept of having any political parties other than the religious authorities, would be absolute anathema to a true theocracy. As would (EG) the fairly significant socialist origins of the PPP, as would be the outsize role of the Army and ISI in both State and commercial power, etc etc etc.

Pakistan operates under a military deep state but stuff like apostasy gets you the death sentence.

It’s certainly a lot more religious of a society than it used to be back in the 60s-70s. The country died with Fatima Jinnah.