Do firearms make people dumber?

Fury said:
I think what people are pointing out is that mass murder is possible without firearms. You can make a bomb with instructions from the internet for example. That's not even relevant here though.

You can also, if you can't take your mom's guns, purchase a gun illegally. It's not as if you ban guns they would disappear from society.
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1. Of course it's possible; it's just made a lot harder. And do you really think everyone would just start making bombs. Probably not.

2. Yes, you could. But you'd have to know people, and know how to find them. Plenty of people are terrible socially, and would have no idea where to start. Would some be able to? Sure, but a lot less would get their hands on guns if they were illegal.
 
KrazyKanadian said:
1. Of course it's possible; it's just made a lot harder. And do you really think everyone would just start making bombs. Probably not.

2. Yes, you could. But you'd have to know people, and know how to find them. Plenty of people are terrible socially, and would have no idea where to start. Would some be able to? Sure, but a lot less would get their hands on guns if they were illegal.
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I think more people would just off themselves, and possibly one other person.

Agreed.
 
Honestly I don't agree with America's gun laws but I wouldn't say owning a weapon makes you dumber.
 
KrazyKanadian said:
1. Of course it's possible; it's just made a lot harder. And do you really think everyone would just start making bombs. Probably not.

2. Yes, you could. But you'd have to know people, and know how to find them. Plenty of people are terrible socially, and would have no idea where to start. Would some be able to? Sure, but a lot less would get their hands on guns if they were illegal.
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Google pipe bomb and look at the news. If like this guy, they were willing to die with it, those found bombs would be detonated pipe bombs. Then look at the suggested searches, which shows a lot of people have been looking at how to make them. Look for instructions yourself, they're there and pretty simple.


I could get a gun illegally. I don't think it's as hard as you think. You probably imagine someone walking into a dark room filled with gang members like something out of an action flick. Sorry, that's not a requirement.
 
Niten Ichi Ryu said:
It sort of makes them who they are, and it's so ingrained in them I don't think they will ever change much.
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It's mostly ingrained in the constitution which is the framework for our country. Outside of changing it, which isn't happening in this case, you can't ban guns.
 
Fury said:
It's mostly ingrained in the constitution which is the framework for our country. Outside of changing it, which isn't happening in this case, you can't ban guns.
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You can do anything you want.

But it's this defeatist attitude that will maintain the status quo.
 
Fury said:
Google pipe bomb and look at the news. If like this guy, they were willing to die with it, those found bombs would be detonated pipe bombs. Then look at the suggested searches, which shows a lot of people have been looking at how to make them. Look for instructions yourself, they're there and pretty simple.


I could get a gun illegally. I don't think it's as hard as you think. You probably imagine someone walking into a dark room filled with gang members like something out of an action flick. Sorry, that's not a requirement.
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I know it's easy enough, but it's still a ton more difficult than pulling a trigger. Plus, shitty home made bombs may fail, etc. I think a LOT of these killers would just say fuck it, or try with a knife.

LOL. Would be hilarious. Maybe I'd wear a hat like Walter White, and talk like a badass.

But of course it's not like that. I could get a gun if I so wanted as well, and it's illegal here. But, I know lots of people. A lot of these killers are pretty poor socially; hence, they don't have a lot of friends, they don't do well with people, and hence they would have no idea what to do. Is it foolproof? Of course not, but it again makes it a lot more difficult to do.

One other thing: a lot of these mentally deranged killers seem to have good days, and bad days. Yes, they think about doing something like that, and they may even plan for it....and then they have their good days (http://thebluereview.org/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother/), where they wouldn't hurt a fly. What's to say that these kids are just having one of their crazy fucking episodes, see a gun laying around and decide: this is it, I'm gonna fucking kill a bunch of people like I thought about that one time. Flip side, if they didn't have that laying around, and had to get materials to make a bomb, or figure out where to buy a gun....maybe that episode passes and they decide half way through trying that they don't want to anymore.
 
I don't think having a gun in your house makes you any safer then a household without a gun. The chances of a gun accidentally going off far overweighs what you gain in the once in a million shot of stopping a mass murderer. Are you going to be carrying the gun on your person 24/7? Otherwise in the unlikely chance you'll ever encounter a mass murderer the time you actually need the gun you won't have it handy to use. And guns elevate the violence, if you pull out your gun you better be ready to use it or else you might end up getting shot yourself.
 
Space said:
You can do anything you want.

But it's this defeatist attitude that will maintain the status quo.
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I want to keep my guns. I am certainly not being defeated.

You can amend the constitution but not enough people (and their respective representatives) want to get rid of guns to do so.

I don't see anything defeatist about it for the other side either. It is what it is.

How do you propose the anti-gun folks go about changing the constitution?
 
KrazyKanadian said:
I know it's easy enough, but it's still a ton more difficult than pulling a trigger. Plus, shitty home made bombs may fail, etc. I think a LOT of these killers would just say fuck it, or try with a knife.

LOL. Would be hilarious. Maybe I'd wear a hat like Walter White, and talk like a badass.

But of course it's not like that. I could get a gun if I so wanted as well, and it's illegal here. But, I know lots of people. A lot of these killers are pretty poor socially; hence, they don't have a lot of friends, they don't do well with people, and hence they would have no idea what to do. Is it foolproof? Of course not, but it again makes it a lot more difficult to do.

One other thing: a lot of these mentally deranged killers seem to have good days, and bad days. Yes, they think about doing something like that, and they may even plan for it....and then they have their good days (http://thebluereview.org/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother/), where they wouldn't hurt a fly. What's to say that these kids are just having one of their crazy fucking episodes, see a gun laying around and decide: this is it, I'm gonna fucking kill a bunch of people like I thought about that one time. Flip side, if they didn't have that laying around, and had to get materials to make a bomb, or figure out where to buy a gun....maybe that episode passes and they decide half way through trying that they don't want to anymore.
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Most of the school shooters and a bunch of the prior spree shooters had very clear plans about what they were going to do. Hell, they left documentation. I don't know about Lanza specifically but look at say Columbine. You think those kids were giving up?
 
Fury said:
I want to keep my guns. I am certainly not being defeated.

You can amend the constitution but not enough people (and their respective representatives) want to get rid of guns to do so.

I don't see anything defeatist about it for the other side either. It is what it is.

How do you propose the anti-gun folks go about changing the constitution?
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Honestly if I was going to live in America I'd have guns too (the type depending on where i was living), and would probably home school my kids.

It's double edged sword but there has to be some better protocol. Maybe steel doors with locks that only teachers can access so if this stuff happens they can lock down the school. That's just off the top of my head.

edit: i wouldnt want to live there, visiting my family is enough for me!
 
Niten Ichi Ryu said:
Honestly if I was going to live in America I'd have guns too (the type depending on where i was living), and would probably home school my kids.

It's double edged sword but there has to be some better protocol. Maybe steel doors with locks that only teachers can access so if this stuff happens they can lock down the school. That's just off the top of my head.

edit: i wouldnt want to live there, visiting my family is enough for me!
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There's a lot of things that could make people safer, I'll bite on that.
 
I like guns but can't say I trust most people to handle them properly.

Well, most would be responsible, just as most can drive properly and so forth, but there are a sizable minority of people who cannot be trusted to properly handle firearms.

I'd be curious to know how many unintentional discharges occur in the military during training etc. etc. From what I've heard, it does happen, regularly enough. Now consider how much training they have compared to the average gun owner.

Guns require great responsibility and thus I don't think they should be made available to nearly everyone (i.e. like American law seems to allow)
 
NumptyGolf said:
I like guns but can't say I trust most people to handle them properly.

Well, most would be responsible, just as most can drive properly and so forth, but there are a sizable minority of people who cannot be trusted to properly handle firearms.

I'd be curious to know how many unintentional discharges occur in the military during training etc. etc. From what I've heard, it does happen, regularly enough. Now consider how much training they have compared to the average gun owner.
Guns require great responsibility and thus I don't think they should be made available to nearly everyone (i.e. like American law seems to allow)
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Surprisingly sometimes a lot less.
 
Fury said:
Most of the school shooters and a bunch of the prior spree shooters had very clear plans about what they were going to do. Hell, they left documentation. I don't know about Lanza specifically but look at say Columbine. You think those kids were giving up?
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this is an important point

but i'd suspect that most of their plans wouldn't work without a gun?
 
Fury said:
It's mostly ingrained in the constitution which is the framework for our country. Outside of changing it, which isn't happening in this case, you can't ban guns.
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We [gun owners] have the 2nd Amendment, the loony left has Roe v Wade which kills more humans than any thing or any one. Both are here to stay. It kills me that these people want to take away or hinder my right to protect myself but they have no qualms with the nearly 1 million lives that are snuffed out each year, most of those babies are black. The founder of Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger was a racist who believed in eugenics. She thought most people were too poor and lazy (undesirable) to have children that they couldn't properly feed and educate. Anyway, no one talks about all the black babies being killed by abortion each year.
 
I think people misinterpret a single word from the second ammendment far too often:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed
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Infringed, not removed... meaning that there shouldn't be any restrictions placed on weapons. Not the type, not the size, not the number of rounds a magazine can hold. Nothing.
 
Firearm does not make people dumber, it exposes people making dumb decisions.
 
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