Opinion Diversity in hiring - Should we hire based on skin color, sexual preference, disability status - or the content of someone's character?

[Fox by the Sea]

Lots of reasons. Different ideas and perspectives, more potential for growth through different communities etc. It's not rocket science, although I guess this is Sherdog.

if you're a plane designer, what kind of perspective would you get for someone who's an indian born in america? where would that perspective be useful? try giving an example of where such a perspective would be used and how.

 

[fedorthegoat777]

Annnndddd...thread. The only real problem with this is that some people want to play make believe that there isn't an imbalance of opportunity at the outset.

There is an imbalance of opportunity at the outset. Mainly in educational opportunities for poor people. I taught in an inner city school for a minute. They are bad. Mostly black kids go to these schools. We need better schools for them, this is very wrong.

However, just hiring a black guy to be a pilot or doctor when he is not qualified is not the answer. We have many great doctors and pilots that are black, let's hire some more. But we can't compromise on hiring for this, it puts other lives in danger. We also can't incorporate racist ideologies into our system, this is also wrong.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

The active resistance to them is itself evidence that they are needed.

"Beatings strengthen character. Active resistance to beatings is itself evidence that more beatings are needed to strengthen character."

jesus christ we have some drones in here.

 

[kflo]

DEI is an intermediary step on the way to color blindness. Currently, colorblindness is fake and people who claim it are perpetuating systems of inequality we inherited. At some point in the distant future, laws and policies related to DEI might become antique and embarrassing as they are no longer needed. The active resistance to them is itself evidence that they are needed.

I don’t see how resistance can be seen as evidence in either direction.

If it wasn’t needed, wouldn’t resistance make sense?

 

[Sweater of AV]

if you're a plane designer, what kind of perspective would you get for someone who's an indian born in america? where would that perspective be useful? try giving an example of where such a perspective would be used and how.

Of course, you can choose a profession with a very specific task, or one that's even highly automated. Even then, a workplace with more diversity tends to be happier.

Do you believe a marketing company would benefit from everyone being white and male or from having a diverse set of employees? Give an explicit reason why the former would be the case. Be specific.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

Of course, you can choose a profession with a very specific task. Even then, a workplace with more diversity tends to be happier.

Do you believe a marketing company would benefit from everyone being white and male or from having a diverse set of employees? Give an explicit reason why the former would be the case. Be specific.

I have seen no proof that a technical field that is forced into diversity is happier. that's just an empty slogan.

and you haven't answered my question specifically, so i see no reason why i should bother to answer yours.

 

[Sweater of AV]

I have seen no proof that a technical field that is forced into diversity is happier. that's just an empty slogan.

and you haven't answered my question specifically, so i see no reason why i should bother to answer yours.

Who said "forced?" You sound confused.

I answered your question. You gave a highly technical and specific example where cultural backgrounds are largely normalized.

The reason you won't answer my question is you know you're full of shit. Either that, or you're highly defensive of being in the company of men

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

People are very delusional in how some to many some companies enact these policies. It's not just discrimination in hiring, they enact discrimination on the job as well.

If someone isn't in the right bucket, they can expect worse reviews, they can expect less resources given to them relative to your workload (i.e. if you are great at your job and the diversity employee sucks, expect the diversity employee to be allowed a bigger team/get more resources), and they can expect a shorter leash for underperformance (i.e. you will be pushed out for "underperforming" or simply being in the wrong bucket and told you are "underperforming" by a superior looking to score diversity brownie points, while the diversity hire will get additional training, additional resources, or moved to a different role they might be better at.... maybe better at). Like shit, if you're a LGBTQ+ black woman and you get fired from your job at one of the woke companies these days, let it be known you must be complete complete total shit at it!

And of course there is zero transparency around this and nobody will talk about it out loud at a woke company as it will of course be a bad career move to bring it up, because these companies of course want to keep employees in the dark that they are blackballed because of their color, sex, and sexual orientation. Your best chance about hearing people talk honestly about the absurdity of this is at comedy clubs who have a field day with this nonsense whereas of course the suits lie their asses off.

 

[Lucas1980]

Diversity is obviously a strength but it should come after abilities/skills. If you have two pools of equally qualified candidates, one being highly diverse and the other not, then it would be pretty foolish to only choose from the latter.

But Why?

 

[Fox by the Sea]

Who said "forced?" You sound confused.

I answered your question. You gave a highly technical example where cultural backgrounds are largely normalized.

The reason you won't answer my question is you know you're full of shit. Either that, or you're highly defensive of being in the company of men

Well it is forced as long as it is an extra layer added to the normality of competence. competence isn't enough now, you also need different skin colors.
And you did not answer my question, you just dodged it. why would technical fields need diversity? why would you need to expect or ask diversity in fields like medicine, hard sciences, technical skilled jobs? what would diversity add to that? you certainly did not answer this question.

and on the second part, your example mentions marketing, and then you just jump to white men. is this a fanfiction that is dear to you? any group can be brought in this - a company that hires only jews, men and women. what would be the improvement of bringing in three ethiopians, a guy from taiwan and a dude from poland who's a satanist. how would that improve the workplace? what if the same marketing company is in Senegal, and now has to hire two canadians, one of which is trans, a bulgarian woman who is very religious, three russians that only speak in russian among themselves. how would this make the company better?

how about you stop it with the fan fiction. the world is not a netflix show.

 

[AfroBanana]

From my experience in a high skilled field where the most qualified applicant matters……..

Diversity hiring (if the person isn’t nearly as qualified as others) is the same as privilege hiring (hiring someone just because of who they know or where they went to school). You basically end up with the same entitled person who is put in a situation they don’t want to be or aren’t prepared to be in who is use to special treatment.

These days they’re not only under qualified but they’re missing work ethic and attributes they’ll never regain. A lot of it is because at the education level they’re get pushed through the system the same way a “privileged person” would. You essentially end up with the same person in a position they don’t really want to be in.

I’m not against diversity hiring but they should be highly qualified in the same tier as the top applicants and not just aiming low to fill quotas for the sake of diversity.

 

[Streeter]

Always should hire best person to apply. If that means the workforce isn't as diverse as ideal Education is the issue that needs to be addressed... but you do not hire lesser qualified people based on skin tone or sex. If a business is private they can hire who they want.

 

[Sweater of AV]

Well it is forced as long as it is an extra layer added to the normality of competence. competence isn't enough now, you also need different skin colors.
And you did not answer my question, you just dodged it. why would technical fields need diversity? why would you need to expect or ask diversity in fields like medicine, hard sciences, technical skilled jobs? what would diversity add to that? you certainly did not answer this question.

and on the second part, your example mentions marketing, and then you just jump to white men. is this a fanfiction that is dear to you? any group can be brought in this - a company that hires only jews, men and women. what would be the improvement of bringing in three ethiopians, a guy from taiwan and a dude from poland who's a satanist. how would that improve the workplace? what if the same marketing company is in Senegal, and now has to hire two canadians, one of which is trans, a bulgarian woman who is very religious, three russians that only speak in russian among themselves. how would this make the company better?

how about you stop it with the fan fiction. the world is not a netflix show.

Except no one used the word "force." Your "fan fiction" is humorous, and yes it's pretty obvious what your actual issue is. You don't need to bring up Netflix or whatever it is you watch

why would you need to expect or ask diversity in fields like medicine

Seriously? You're this slow? Do you think patients might be more comfortable with someone similar to their backgrounds? Do you think there's a reason why female patients tend to ask for female gynecologists?



Try thinking for a change. It'll help you greatly.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

Except no one used the word "force." Your "fan fiction" is humorous, and yes it's pretty obvious what your actual issue is. You don't need to bring up Netflix or whatever it is you watch



Seriously? You're this slow? Do you think patients might be more comfortable with someone similar to their backgrounds? Do you think there's a reason why female patients tend to ask for female gynecologists?



Try thinking for a change. It'll help you greatly.

nobody is using it? i am using it. and it is forced as long as it's an unnecessary criteria added after the criteria of competence, which should be sufficient. the idea that there should be an extra layer of demands beyond competence is ideological indoctrination, nothing more.

and the second part, yeah i doubt that many people confronted with a real medical issue would choose the person that resembles them most instead of going for the best option as a doctor. this just proves you are living from slogans.

it's pretty clear you are either real young and have no life experience, since you immediately went to slogans and attempts to insult. your idea of diversity is probably a tame, controlled version, that is basically a bunch of people that think the same and have different skin colors, while all lined up for coffee at starbucks. you don't want a bunch of black dudes that vote for trump in your marketing firm.

 

[MMAisGod]

Another things that's ignored is that a lot of times, "ability to do a job" isn't an easily quantifiable variable. Or it involves several variables. For example, if you're promoting someone to be a sales manager, factors considered could involve sales made (quantifiable), but also ability to communicate with people they're supervising (not easily quantifiable), or ability to cooperate with upper management (not easily quantifiable) and a bunch of other things.

So many hiring decisions rest on subjective decisions. Diversity efforts simply try to make decision makers aware that these subjective decisions exist and to try to include factors like gender, race, age, etc.

My question to that would simply be then how do you differentiate between when a department is predominantly white because they had superior "not easily quantifiable" skills compared to "minorities are being excluded because look at the lack of their representation"? If two people are great on paper but in the interview one clearly presents themselves as a better communicator and I need someone to travel to client sites, why would I care about their skin color or gender? I don't think at least in the financial world that most people care at all as much as the claims say, it's all a numbers game.

If my team ends up all white or all black I'm trying to make money and get high performance out of them. My boss does the same with me. If I was forced to hire a certain amount of women or whatever for example regardless of the impression I received on their non-quantifiable skills I think that would be more detrimental to team building. I think "ideally" a diverse team of highly qualified high performers is "ideal", as high performance will always get things done, but diversity has to fall in place rather than be enforced or you risk quality which defeats the whole purpose.

TLDR: If a team ends up 9/10 white and Asian I don't see any issue at all than if a team was 9/10 Hispanic/black if they're great performers. You hire the best and if your team is diverse even better.

 

[Sweater of AV]

nobody is using it? i am using it.

Congratulations. Enjoy arguing with yourself.

and the second part, yeah i doubt that many people confronted with a real medical issue would choose the person that resembles them most instead of going for the best option as a doctor. this just proves you are living from slogans.

As I explicitly said, we are working with a pool of equally qualified and skilled candidates. Diversity comes after that. It's obvious that having a diverse workforce in medicine is beneficial to anyone with a brain.

You are truly not very bright.

it's pretty clear you are either real young and have no life experience, since you immediately went to slogans and attempts to insult. your idea of diversity is probably a tame, controlled version, that is basically a bunch of people that think the same and have different skin colors, while all lined up for coffee at starbucks. you don't want a bunch of black dudes that vote for trump in your marketing firm.

It's pretty clear you should give high school another shot. Hell, you can't even follow a simple discussion on a karate forum. Your "real life experience" is probably comprised of you sitting in your underwear wondering why other people have the job you want.

 

[Senzo Tanaka]

MLK absolutely preached a colorblind society. The "dream" was that you'd just see a human being. I've seen people and articles in recent years (and today actually) say that MLK would support DEI and the colorblind stuff is taking his words out of context. I thought he was pretty clear that he didn't want people to see a black person and treat them different from anyone else.

I think DEI was well meaning because it's trying to give opportunity to people that may not have had those options in the past or need to catch up. Where I draw the line is when you discriminate on others based on race. That's simply racist. There are ways to help people without being racist towards others. We should strive for true equal opportunity and is long is that is the case, you shouldn't need DEI.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

Congratulations. Enjoy arguing with yourself.

You are truly not very bright.


It's pretty clear you should give high school another shot. Hell, you can't even follow a simple discussion on a karate forum. Your "real life experience" is probably comprised of you sitting in your underwear wondering why other people have the job you want.

projection.

 

[Sweater of AV]

projection.

Concession accepted.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

Concession accepted.

Ah, running away i see. you kinda wanted that ever since i asked "Why?".
@Lucas1980 also asked you why, you seem to have forgotten to answer.
clearly he also "conceded".