International Disunited Kingdom: The Renewed Call For Scottish Independence, Part 2.

Wow. Didn't realize the deficit was that high.
The UK is basically a failed state in the making. But an independent Scotland would need to pay for things like embassies and a military. Seemsike they don't have the cash for that at all
its not, we are incapable of having a deficit in our current position. Any deficit what the UK government attribute to us.

We get a budget each year that must be balanced. We tend to underspend most years as that gets added to the next years budget
 
its not, we are incapable of having a deficit in our current position. Any deficit what the UK government attribute to us.

We get a budget each year that must be balanced. We tend to underspend most years as that gets added to the next years budget
Ok in this thread there's graphs showing deficits. I'm not sure who to believe. As Scotland is not something I follow at all
 
@Arkain2K wow man I don't follow Scotland very much. But seems they sat in their hands and figured oil and natural economic progress would fix their problems. Lazy and no foresight. Def dodged a bullet on independence here despite Brexit

Yeah, I'm all for self-determination and would gladly see Scotland finally making William Wallace proud, and I was cheering them on last time before they shat the bed - but man did they dodged a financial bullet, when the majority of the proposed Independent fiscal budget for all their social programs was banking on the hope that crude oil would remains excess of $100/barrel for years to come. I mean, that gamble was Venezuela-esque! I still don't know how Alex Salmond managed to keep a straight face when he insisted that the massive drop in worldwide oil prices was only a short-term bump, even as the U.S shale revolution was in full swing and everyone knew the slide can only continue from there.

On the other hand, mainstream nationalists in Edinburgh would argue that money isn't everything, and it would be better to be broke and free rather than having your national budget subsidized annually under the political jurisdiction of Westminster. As a proud citizen of a country that broke free from the British Crown centuries ago, I completely sympathize with that - as it was the case for all the Americans who actually stayed up through the night to watch the IndyRef live votes tally coming in (arguably the first time ever that we did such thing for another country's national vote, for obvious historical parallels), and then threw up our hands in exasperation when it's clear that the Scots shat their bed and chose Financial Security over Freedom.

Ofcourse, judging on the comments below those same news articles, there seems to be a handful of folks in lalaland who actually believe that Scotland would have somehow be more prosperous (rather than being nose-deep in austerity) had they split from the U.K five years ago, or even deny that massive Scottish annual deficit (as published by Scotland's own Scottish National Party) even exists when public spending far exceeds tax revenues, and the entire rationale of "we don't have any deficit!" is often based on the hilariously-flawed belief that Scotland can somehow welch on its current financial obligations (including Scotland's share of the U.K government bonds and treasury bill payments) without consequences, but I hope we don't have any of those guys in the forum.

Aside from the public posturing at the height of the IndyRef drive in regards to the Pound sterling that Britain refused to share, even Alex Salmond knew that if an independent Scotland just walked away from its fair share of the U.K's national debts - from the investments that undoubtedly has benefited Scotland over the years - it will instantly becomes a pariah to foreign investors everywhere, and the only kind of interest rates they going to get from there on out would be equivalent to payday loansharks, so I think it's safe to assume that the novel argument of defaulting on debts on the first day of Independence is far from mainstream, just like how the world chuckles in unison when funny Brits were floating the idea that Britain can somehow welch on their previously-agreed financial obligations to the E.U.
 
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Yeah, I'm all for self-determination and would gladly see Scotland finally making William Wallace proud, and I was cheering them on last time before they shat the bed - but man did they dodged a bullet when the majority of the proposed Independent fiscal budget was banking on crude oil in excess of $100/barrel. I mean, that's Venezuela-esque!

On the other hand, mainstream nationalists in Edinburgh would argue that money isn't everything, and it would be better to be broke and nose-deep in austerity and free rather than having your national budget subsidized annually under the political jurisdiction of Westminster. As a proud citizen of a country that broke free from the British Crown centuries ago, I completely sympathize with that.

Ofcourse, judging on the comments below these news articles, there seems to be a handful of folks in lalaland who actually believe that Scotland would have somehow be more prosperous had they splitted from the U.K five years ago, or even deny that massive Scottish annual deficit (as published by Scotland's own Scottish National Party) even exists now when public spendings far exceeds tax revenues since oil prices tanked, but I hope we don't have any of those guys in the forum.
Yeah, it wouldn't have worked. I'm sure out of spite London would have made it hard for Scotland to get financing. Meaning development and govt debt would be more costly.
The UK is a silly country and their police enforcing hate crimes online is ridiculous. But then so is depending on oil for everything. They'd need to Norway their way. I mean use oil to finance industry and a sovereign wealth fund.
Seems they just spend and don't invest much.
Then again I'm sure the brain drain is a problem. If you're smart why stay in Edinburgh when you can go to London and make some serious Money?
 
Yeah, it wouldn't have worked. I'm sure out of spite London would have made it hard for Scotland to get financing. Meaning development and govt debt would be more costly.
The UK is a silly country and their police enforcing hate crimes online is ridiculous. But then so is depending on oil for everything. They'd need to Norway their way. I mean use oil to finance industry and a sovereign wealth fund.
Seems they just spend and don't invest much.
Then again I'm sure the brain drain is a problem. If you're smart why stay in Edinburgh when you can go to London and make some serious Money?

When did the UK become a country?
 
When did the UK become a country?

Officially?

1801 AD.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, commonly known as the United Kingdom (UK) or Britain, is a sovereign country located off the north-western coast of the European mainland. The United Kingdom includes the island of Great Britain, the north-eastern part of the island of Ireland, and many smaller islands. Northern Ireland is the only part of the United Kingdom that shares a land border with another sovereign state, the Republic of Ireland.

The United Kingdom consists of four constituent countries: England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland. Their capitals are London, Edinburgh, Cardiff, and Belfast, respectively. Apart from England, the countries have their own devolved governments, each with varying powers, but such power is delegated by the Parliament of the United Kingdom, which may enact laws unilaterally altering or abolishing devolution. The medieval conquest and subsequent annexation of Wales by the Kingdom of England, followed by the union between England and Scotland in 1707 to form the Kingdom of Great Britain, and the union in 1801 of Great Britain with the Kingdom of Ireland created the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.
 
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This. And it was basically England anyways, which had existed since the Norman invasion if you want to get technical

It existed since the Norman invasion?
 
That source doesn’t say it’s a country

Please refrain from participating in any of my threads until your Reading-Comprehension has achieved at least grade-school level.
 
It existed since the Norman invasion?
I'd say yes, arguably. As England uniting with Wales, Scotland and Ireland wasn't a marriage of equals. It was England led and ruled by royalty who were not English but whose power was based there. What has changed is the form of government.
 
Scottish independence: Scots must define IndyRef2 mandate, says John McDonnell
The Scottish Government is drafting legislation to bring forward a second vote on independence
By
Chris McCall | Sept 13, 2019

image.jpg

John McDonnell has said the people of Scotland must determine the mandate on which a second independence referendum could be called, as the senior Labour figure again refused to rule out another vote on the constitution.

But the Shadow Chancellor, speaking in Glasgow today, claimed IndyRef2 was not a priority as a future Labour Government would have “enough on its plate” dealing with the aftermath of a potential no-deal Brexit.

The Scottish Government is currently passing legislation which would pave the way for a second referendum.

A majority of MSPs - the SNP plus the Greens - have already passed a motion calling for an independence referendum to be staged to provide Scots with an alternative to Brexit.

Senior Labour figures in Scotland have previously suggested the mandate secured by both parties in the 2016 Holyrood election did not explicitly set out demands for a second referendum, after Scots had been told the 2014 vote was a “once in a generation” event.

Asked today what mandate would secure a second referendum, Mr McDonnell said: “I think the Scottish people will determine the mandate.

“When we go into power as a Labour Government, we are going to be faced with tackling the issues of Brexit; faced with nine years of austerity; and the existential threat of climate change.

“But if there is a mandate from the Scottish people - and the Scottish people will define that mandate - we will certainly not stand in the way of it.”

He added: “A Labour Government would have enough on its hands. Do we really want to distract from the key issues when you have children living in poverty, when you have climate change threatening the very existence of our future generations, when we are inheriting such a mess from the Tory party?”

Placing his party on a campaign footing ahead of a widely expected general election before the end of the year, Mr McDonnell said voters in the UK faced a choice between “socialism and barbarism” and that his party’s “time is coming”.

He continued: “We are presented with the opportunity of a lifetime to change the direction of political travel in the UK in a way not seen since the Eighties.

“Our time is coming and it may be coming quicker than anyone expected ... a far-Right nationalist Conservative Party that will stop at nothing to deliver a no-deal Brexit, screwing over whoever it wants in the process, continuing austerity and failing to lift a finger to tackle the climate emergency.”

https://www.scotsman.com/news/polit...ndyref2-mandate-says-john-mcdonnell-1-5003966
 
1801 is a slightly disingenuous answer.
England and Scotland have shared a monarch since 1603 and joined parliaments in the 1707 Act of Union.
The Kingship of Ireland has been claimed by English Kings since the Normans but was only formally made part of the union in 1800.
 
1801 is a slightly disingenuous answer.
England and Scotland have shared a monarch since 1603 and joined parliaments in the 1707 Act of Union.
The Kingship of Ireland has been claimed by English Kings since the Normans but was only formally made part of the union in 1800.

He asked when the U.K came about, not Great Britain, which was the kingdom previously created with the 1707 Acts of Union.

Either way, it has been determined that the guy can't actually read, so it's time to get back on topic now.
 
He asked when the U.K came about, not Great Britain, which was the kingdom previously created with the 1707 Acts of Union.

Either way, it has been determined that the guy can't actually read, so it's time to get back on topic now.

I certainly agree that the minutiae of the history of the UK isn't relevant.

I do think the context of the history between England and Scotland is going to complicate matters in the event of a bid for Scottish independence. Scotland can't be thought of as an occupied territory or as a secessionist section of the country, it exists somewhere in the middle.
There is so much integration in terms of peoples, financials and services between England and Scotland that any 'Divorce Bill' (as we're seeing with the EU) is going to get very messy. Scots provide a large amount of workers in lots of important government jobs, be that Civil Service, military, government etc. Any disentanglement will be hard pressed not to leave some of these people jobless.

Whatever happens I hope we don't descend into bickering and trying to make things worse for each other. Despite national rivalries we have a lot more in common as countries than we should have as reasons to argue.
 
Please refrain from participating in any of my threads until your Reading-Comprehension has achieved at least grade-school level.

I’ve read it. Still can’t see where it states that the UK is a country.
 
It will just go back to the way things were before the UK mistakenly entered the EU and ceded their sovereignty.

Things will be fine. Some people will try to make things as difficult as possible though.

Yes. Back when Britain produced goods and had industries like steel, mining etc. and wasn't reliant on financial & banking services.

You can't go back because everything and everyone around you is no longer the same either.

People are rightfully making it difficult to leave, especially with no deal. Those who pushed for Brexit did so with no plan whatsoever. 3 years on since the vote and they've still got nothing to show for it.

It'll be fine in the sense that people won't starve, but it's a classic case of the older gen screwing the newer gen based on misinformation.
 
Ok in this thread there's graphs showing deficits. I'm not sure who to believe. As Scotland is not something I follow at all
I'll let Richard Murphy explain, the figures are taken from what is called GERS.... and its figures are provided by the UK government, most of which are estimates.



Arkain can state what he wants to, but he is talking absolute bollocks
 
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