International Disunited Kingdom: The Renewed Call For Scottish Independence, Part 2.

No, but understanding the ties and difficulties of breaking up the union would be as big a mistake as Brexit. Possibly even worse.

Anyway, at the time of indyref Brexit wasn't a thing. So Scotland were firmly secure in the EU and union. It's no wonder they voted to stay, for most people a stable future with no uncertainty beats a punt.

However, this time round no telling how the vote would go. I'm be worried of the breakup and concerned for the future of the entire union if it happened

To be fair, economics is never the #1 concern for those who wants to cast their vote on a matter of sovereignty. It's true for Brexit, it's true for Scotland, and as an American I sympathize with any country who dares to forge their own path into the unknown, much like our founding fathers did when they tossed stability and safety into the Boston harbor.

That being said, many Brits were severely misinformed before their Brexit vote, and I hope the average Scot would know better, 'cause the WR doesn't needs a 15-part series on Scotland Independence, LOL.

Nicola Sturgeon admits SNP's economic plan for independence now 'completely out of date'
April 16, 2021​
NICOLA Sturgeon has admitted the figures in the SNP’s economic blueprint for independence are now “completely out of date” despite demanding a second referendum before updating them.

The First Minister conceded the party’s 2018 Growth Commmission, written before both the Covid pandemic and the final Brexit deal, was no longer reliable.

However she said there would be no new analysis conducted until the eve of Indyref2.

She told Channel 4 News: “While the underlying approach of the Growth Commission is one that I fully endorse and sign up to, the figures in it are completely out of date.


“Because in the period since that was published we’ve undergone a global pandemic, the fiscal position of the UK and most countries across the world has been turned upside down.”

The Scottish Tories accused her of a "dangerous and dishonest" failure on the economics of leaving the Union.

Commissioned in the wake of the 2016 Brexit vote, the Sustainable Growth Commission was written by former SNP MSP turned corporate lobbyist Andrew Wilson.


It angered many in the SNP with its caution, its emphasis on spending restraint and deficit reduction in the first decade after independence, and its hesitancy over a new currency.

Boris Johson has refused to grant Indyref2, saying the No vote of 2014 should stand for a generation, which he defined as around 40 years.

However the SNP manifesto for the Holyrood election says the party would try to hold a second referendum by the end of 2023, Covid permitting, if re-elected.

It also says a Yes vote would mean an independent Scotland rejoining the European Union, without a second EU referendum.

Because of Brexit, Scottish re-entry to Europe would mean a hard economic border with England, because that border would also be an external EU border.

A recent LSE study suggested an independent Scotland cost face extra trade costs of between 15 and 30 per cent with the rest of the UK because of such a border.

Ten months before the 2014 referendum, the Scottish Government poduced a 650-page White Paper on independence intended to inform voters. There has been no update.

Asked if she had conducted an analysis of the economic consequences of independence, Ms Sturgeon said: “When we put the choice of independence before the Scottish people in a referendum, we will do what we did in 2014.

"We will set out a prospectus, we will do the analysis at that point, and we’ll let people in Scotland decide.”

She said the LSE report was a “very, very narrowly based assessment and it didn’t take account of the wider benefits of independence to Scotland’s economy”.

Ms Sturgeon was asked what information she had about what independence would mean for Scotland’s economy.


She said: “I think people rightly expect to have that. Just as they had it in 2014 before they voted, yes, they rightly expect to have that before they’re asked to vote again.”

Asked why that information wasn’t available now, the SNP leader replied: “We’re in a global pandemic.

“The Growth Commission, while the underlying approach of the Growth Commission is one that I fully endorse and sign up to, the figures in it are completely out of date

“Because in the period since that was published we’ve undergone a global pandemic, the fiscal position of the Uk and most countries across the world has been turned upside down.

“So we’ll do these things in the proper, ordered way.

"People will have not just the detail that you’re talking about, but the vision of taking the future of the country into our own hands, not having it determined by Johnson and his Brexiteers."

Ms Sturgeon also admitted the Scottish Government “didn’t get everything right” at the start of the pandemic, when hospital patients were dicharged into care homes without being untested for Covid.

Health Secretary Jeane Freeman recently conceded that move, blamed for passing the virus to other care home residents with fatal results, had been a “mistake”.

A third of the 10,000 confirmed or suspected Covid deaths in Scotland have been in care homes, with the death rate for homes among the worst in the world.


Scottish Tory finance spokesman Murdo Fraser said: "Nicola Sturgeon's failure to provide basic information about the costs of independence are typical of an SNP mindset in which blind faith eclipses basic economics.

"Her plan to stage a referendum in 2023 while we recover from Covid is utterly preposterous, but a lack of any information about the devastating financial consequences for hard-pressed families is dangerous and dishonest.

"She knows she cannot provide an honest economic blueprint because it would destroy support for separation.

"So instead, she has decided to dupe the public in the most irresponsible way."

Scottish Liberal Democrat election campaign chair Alistair Carmichael MP said: "The SNP failed to set out a credible economic prospectus in 2014 and now it is doing it again.

"This is the type of terrible movie that goes on repeat on tv. We already watched this. We already know how it is going to end.

"It's time to change the channel. It's time to end divisions. It's time to put recovery first."

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news...omomic-plan-independence-now-completely-date/
 
Same. I support all of them being independent if they wish to be. I dont believe in forcing majorities (in areas with historic or valid claims to have a functioning state) to be beaten and or forced into a system they are not happy with.

Which is fine up to a point but where does that end , Scotland its self is not unified and of one accord on the matter the last Indie vote saw the cities vote Yes but the Borders,Higlands and Islands saying No , do areas taken out of the Union that are not happy about it then secede from Scotland ? .
 
Which is fine up to a point but where does that end , Scotland its self is not unified and of one accord on the matter the last Indie vote saw the cities vote Yes but the Borders,Higlands and Islands saying No , do areas taken out of the Union that are not happy about it then secede from Scotland ? .

Then the cities can be city states. Your scenario is unlikely. Historically with secessions a city or rural area that votes to remain if not contiguous has no choice but to go with the majority of the seceeded state and or entity. Those disatisfied MOVE or remain and accept status quo. Rare cases of cities remaining part and not going with are rare.
 
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Then the cities can be city states. Your scenario is unlikely. Historically with secessions a city or rural area that votes to remain if not contiguous has no choice but to go with the majority.

I'm not at all sure what is likely anymore , what ever happens I sincerely hope that it spells an end to referendums on these Islands for a good long while .
 
Which is fine up to a point but where does that end , Scotland its self is not unified and of one accord on the matter the last Indie vote saw the cities vote Yes but the Borders,Higlands and Islands saying No , do areas taken out of the Union that are not happy about it then secede from Scotland ? .
Did the areas that voted against Brexit get to stay in the EU?
 
Hoping Scotland finally breaks free from the 'king'dumb. Ireland should follow suit.
 
Did the areas that voted against Brexit get to stay in the EU?

No they didn't but they are extremely upset about leaving a union they were part of for a relatively short time , I'm guessing that there will be people north of the border who will also be upset .

Thats not your decision and shouldnt ever be.

Why are you anxious to have another one , what's next on the referenda agenda ? .
 
No they didn't but they are extremely upset about leaving a union they were part of for a relatively short time , I'm guessing that there will be people north of the border who will also be upset .



Why are you anxious to have another one , what's next on the referenda agenda ? .
Well then why would you expect parts of Scotland that to be any different?

Im anxious to have another one because I want free of Westminster, we wont be able to fully pave our own way until we have full independence.

not sure what you mean about the "referenda agenda"?
 
Well then why would you expect parts of Scotland that to be any different?

Im anxious to have another one because I want free of Westminster, we wont be able to fully pave our own way until we have full independence.

not sure what you mean about the "referenda agenda"?
I don’t expect Scotland to be any different , I just wonder what other matters you feel need a referendum to resolve ? .
 
If hadriens wall had a 100 meter vertical extension would it stop those horrible north south ice winds?
 
As someone who wants the UK to rejoin the EU eventually, I'd rather Scotland stick with us until we rejoin (if that ever happens of course). I think that would be the best outcome if we're thinking long-term. The UK is in dire need of reform, but losing Scotland would be an even bigger blow to an already crappy situation.
 
Johnson can thwart the SNP if he offers Scotland single market access

"If imaginative thinking could be found, perhaps a way to placate some of the discontent, then, is for Scotland to join the two Irelands in that existing single market. It need not leave the UK or join the EU. It would form with Ireland an economic “Celtic crescent” across the Irish Sea. Belfast would trade freely with Glasgow, Edinburgh with Rotterdam and Hamburg. Scotland’s economy would remain open to Europe and doubtless draw new investments and business as a result." [Guardian]

Interesting proposal. I think that there is more to an independent Scotland than pure desire to rejoin the single market, but I wonder if such a suggestion would be enough to retain the blue parts of the union jack, in what will be a close vote.
 
Sturgeon: Scotland independence vote matter of when, not if
By SYLVIA HUI

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LONDON (AP) — Scotland’s leader told British Prime Minister Boris Johnson Sunday that a second Scottish independence referendum is “a matter of when, not if,” after her party won its fourth straight parliamentary election.

Johnson has invited the leaders of the U.K.’s devolved nations for crisis talks on the union after the regional election results rolled in, saying the U.K. was “best served when we work together” and that the devolved governments in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland should cooperate on plans to recover from the coronavirus pandemic.

But Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister and leader of the Scottish National Party, told Johnson in a call that while her immediate focus was on steering Scotland to recovery, a new referendum on Scotland’s breakup from the rest of the U.K. is inevitable.

Sturgeon reiterated “her intention to ensure that the people of Scotland can choose our own future when the crisis is over, and made clear that the question of a referendum is now a matter of when — not if,” her office said.

Earlier, she said she wouldn’t rule out legislation paving the way for a vote at the start of next year.

Final results of Thursday’s local elections showed that the SNP won 64 of the 129 seats in the Edinburgh-based Scottish Parliament. Although it fell one seat short of securing an overall majority, the parliament still had a pro-independence majority with the help of eight members of the Scottish Greens.

Sturgeon said the election results proved that a second independence vote for Scotland was “the will of the country” and that any London politician who stood in the way would be “picking a fight with the democratic wishes of the Scottish people.”

Johnson has the ultimate authority whether or not to permit another referendum on Scotland gaining independence. He wrote in Saturday’s Daily Telegraph that another referendum on Scotland would be “irresponsible and reckless” as Britain emerges from the pandemic. He has consistently argued that the issue was settled in a 2014 referendum where 55% of Scottish voters favored remaining part of the U.K.

But proponents of another vote say the situation has changed fundamentally because of the U.K’s Brexit divorce from the European Union. They charge that Scotland was taken out of the EU against its will. In the 2016 Brexit referendum, 52% of U.K. voters backed leaving the EU, but 62% of Scots voted to remain.

When asked about the prospect of Johnson agreeing to a second Scottish referendum, Cabinet Office minister Michael Gove said Sunday “it’s not an issue for the moment” and stressed that the national priority is on recovering from the coronavirus pandemic.

Gove argued that the SNP’s failure to secure a majority in the Scottish Parliament was in marked contrast to the party’s heights of power in 2011, when it won a 69-seat majority.

“It is not the case now — as we see — that the people of Scotland are agitating for a referendum,” he told the BBC.

The Scotland results have been the main focus of Thursday’s local elections across Britain. In Wales, the opposition Labour Party did better than expected, extending its 22 years at the helm of the Welsh government despite falling one seat short of a majority.

Labour’s support also held up in some big cities. In London, Mayor Sadiq Khan handily won a second term. Other winning Labour mayoral candidates included Steve Rotherham in the Liverpool City Region, Andy Burnham in Greater Manchester and Dan Norris in the West of England region, which includes Bristol.

https://apnews.com/article/europe-h...and-politics-cc570002a3b094c73c1d1a9e6f19f72a
 
Hoping Scotland finally breaks free from the 'king'dumb. Ireland should follow suit.
If Ireland gains its full territorial freedom, I’d get drunk off my ass visiting my fathers grave.

then Ireland could rid itself of the unwanted forced imports and be a free Ireland for the Irish people. What a glory,
 
Russian patsy Nigel Farage is going to be paid handsomely for his part in breaking up the UK.
 
Nicola Sturgeon to do 'everything in her power' to hold independence vote by 2023
By Jack Aitchison | 10th January, 2022

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Nicola Sturgeon has said she intended “to do everything that’s within my power” to hold a second vote on the future of Scotland’s place within the United Kingdom before the end of next year.

Speaking on STV’s Scotland Tonight, the First Minister said the date legislation would be introduced to enable Scotland to hold the independence referendum would be announced “when we’ve taken the detailed decisions”, and told the broadcaster that there were “opportunities that come with Scotland being independent”.

“I intend to do everything that is within my power to enable that referendum to happen before the end of 2023, and we will set out exactly what that means in terms of the date of the introduction of legislation when we’ve taken the detailed decisions around that,” said the First Minister.

And she told Scotland Tonight: “What I think is much more exciting as we come out, I hope, of the pandemic, and certainly the acute phase of the pandemic, are the opportunities that come with Scotland being independent.”

But campaigners against Scotland leaving the United Kingdom and becoming an independent country have hit out at her remarks.

Pamela Nash, chief executive of Scotland in Union, branded the First Minister’s comments as a “gross insult to the people of Scotland”.

“Most people do not support leaving the UK and an overwhelming majority do not believe there should be another referendum any time soon,” she said.

“Politicians should focus on what really matters to people and address the challenges facing our NHS, education and the climate, rather than re-opening a tired old debate and seeking a legal battle over the constitution.

“Scotland’s best days lie ahead of us as part of the UK, building our shared future – not finding ways to divide us.”

https://www.heraldscotland.com/poli...everything-power-hold-independence-vote-2023/
 
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