Difference between being an outstanding athlete, and an outstanding fighter

[Fugazy]

Hoping to start a discussion regarding the trend of Sherdogs using the phrase "A level athlete" and making claims that the united states best athletes "choose" the NFL/NBA over MMA.

My point of view is that.

A) Athletes don't decide to go to the NFL/NBA over MMA just on a decision, it's more so the fact that those people play Football and Basketball from elementary school and decide to go that route because it's where a lifetime of skill and practice leads them. People very rarely start boxing at a young age, so there is a disconnect between measuring athletic prowess from fighting ability. Some people do start wresting very young, and as a result a lot of very very highly regarded wrestlers fight in MMA, from all americans, to NCAA champions, to even Olympic competitors. And almost nobody starts training MMA at an early age - So I think it's reasonable to assume "A Level Athletes", as measured by football and basketball success don't avoid MMA because of the money, but rather because they have spent a lifetime playing a specific sport

Hypothetical question to prove this point: Do you think Lebron James, after being an amazing high school basketball player, would decide to start training MMA if he was offered 10 million per fight? I believe he would stick to the sport he knows

B) Pro teams draft a player based on a combination of skill and athleticism. I'd venture that the people with the fastest run times and strongest lifts are sometimes not drafted, because they are not as skilled as other players who are still athletic, but not "the most athletic". - I think it's reasonable to assume the NFL/NBA don't just pick the best athletes, but the most skilled players

Hypothetical question to prove this point: Do you think Bret Farve or Kobe Bryant, 2 of the best in there sport, were the most athletic players of there era? I believe they were not

C) Being the more athletic person, doesn't win fights. Do you think Griffen was more athletic than Rampage? Machida more athletic than Rashad? Rua more athletic than Machida?

TUF 10 had 4 former NFL players, including a #1 draft pick. Yet Roy Nelson won, perhaps the least athletic person on the show.

His name is Brett Favre.

And you better believe he would have been an MMA GOAT if he wanted. 6'2", 210, old farmer strength and those hands.

 

[fightdonttweet]

Well a top tier athlete doesn't join MMA to win fights on the street. The idea of joining MMA, for me at least (being a football - non decorated of course ) player joining MMA is to compete against people just as classed as me. For the record I've taken to MMA very fast - although I've always loved to fight and violence has always brought out the highest level of competition in me. Now, I'm not an A level athlete, but I was an athletic, big, football player and can say that the type of football conditioning has not prevented me from transitioning into "durable" conditioning like MMA uses. For what that's all worth.. point being I guess is.. everyone can or can't be a fighter at heart (able to punch/take a punch) but it seems silly to ignore the idea that a top end athlete wouldn't be more effective in fighting than if he weren't athletic.

I wouldn't say people go into mma to win street fights, I'm more talking about high school and being interested in martial arts from a young age. Most people do it to learn how to defend themselves and big guys have less of an incentive to do so.

If you were playing football in high school instead of taking bjj you probably are going to take that route in high school as well.

 

[IBeLurkin]

He was too hittable and didn't like being hit. That will happen, but Brock is a POOR counter eargument. At a very old age he switched to MMA and in a short period took heavyweight gold in the best promotion on the planet.. Imagine how many Lesnar's there are out there with better striking, head movement, chin... Seriously... SERIOUSLY

Seriously...how many Lesnars are there out with better striking, head movement, and chin?

Dudes a FREAK athlete, as was said even when he was in the NFL (the home of freak athletes). And he still got destroyed Cain.

So if they're out there...care to name them?

 

[Zeppeling]

I wouldn't say people go into mma to win street fights, I'm more talking about high school and being interested in martial arts from a young age. Most people do it to learn how to defend themselves and big guys have less of an incentive to do so.

If you were playing football in high school instead of taking bjj you probably are going to take that route in high school as well.

True but people don't join wrestling at a young age to outwrestle bullies. MMA isn't popular because it's not widely available at a reasonable price for kids.

 

[THE WARMASTER]

A good example that comes to mind is Brock.

As an athlete, the guy is a monster, but he didn't take getting hit very well--which isn't a good trait to have in the fight profession.

 

[Zeppeling]

A good example that comes to mind is Brock.

As an athlete, the guy is a monster, but he didn't take getting hit very well--which isn't a good trait to have in the fight profession

An example of what? How a poor fighter can excel against the best fighters in the world based SOLELY on athleticism?

 

[THE WARMASTER]

An example of what? How a poor fighter can excel against the best fighters in the world based SOLELY on athleticism?

Who did he excel against, Randy and Herring? We saw what happened when he fought the best.

 

[Zeppeling]

Who did he excel against, Randy and Herring?

How many fighters in the world have done that?

 

[Sp@cePeanut]

I was better than most of my friends at sports growing up. A few of them could kick the shit out of me because they were tough and knew how to fight.

Sports aren't fighting, they are games that involve athletic ability. Fighting is about beating someone up. Being an athlete helps, but knowing how to fight is more important than being in great shape and understanding how to win a game.

 

[stav]

Playing in foreign leagues would mean relocating. Sometimes that's all that it takes to draw the line.

Agreed, which proves that the decision in not always financial.
There a more factors then money when choosing career options like you pointed out.

 

[THE WARMASTER]

How many fighters in the world have done that?

I'm not getting into a debate about how great Brock is or was. He is an outstanding athlete. He was not an outstanding fighter. He came in at the tail-end of the Mir/Randy era and destroyed them with sheer power. We saw what happened when he fought Cain/Overeem, and JDS would have destroyed him as well. I'm not saying he wasn't talented, but he certainly wasn't "outstanding" as a fighter. This thread isn't about unrealized potential.

 

[bobgeese]

You can't just display one instance of courage and then say such a stupid statement like that. Despite, you're insinuating that there aren't fighters that are athletes? I don't really get your position aside from trolling. There are tons of cases of football players playing through intense injuries. Running back with broken ribs carrying a team in the playoffs 200+ yard games, Lott amputating finger mid game, full game played on fractured leg, etc. Those don't mean much. There are also instances of GSP tapping to strikes, Jon Jones refusing to fight Chael Sonnen late notice and more. So..

Sure, those folks would make great fighters, if it turned out they were also good at fighting.

 

[submerged88]

Rory Macdonald is a great athlete with top notch coaching.

Robbie Lawler is a great fighter

 

[bobgeese]

Rory Macdonald is a great athlete with top notch coaching.

Robbie Lawler is a great fighter

Terrible comparison, Rory fought his heart out in that fight, he just happened to lose.

The second punch on that broken nose would have dropped most people who are not fighters.

 

[THE WARMASTER]

Terrible comparison, Rory fought his heart out in that fight, he just happened to lose.

The second punch on that broken nose would have dropped most people who are not fighters.

Agreed. Rory had Robbie hurt badly and nearly finished him.

They're both excellent fighters, Lawler's just a savage beast.

Rory fought until his body finally said, "Nope," from all the pain.

 

[rjmbrd]

Diaz fan agrees with me

I'm a MMA fan

 

[ForbiddenSun]

Sarah McMann?

 

[Cake4Breakfast]

Why would anyone who is good enough to go to the NFL and make that kind of money risk getting KTFO'ed making peanuts in local shows?

Watch the ESPN 30 For 30: Broke. Most NFL athletes are bankrupt with some form of permanent disability by the age of 26, and those are the guys who were good enough to make a team, and lucky enough to not have sustained a disabling injury in high school or college.

 

[Redhawks100]

Certain intangibles, imo.

 

[Cake4Breakfast]

I wouldn't say people go into mma to win street fights, I'm more talking about high school and being interested in martial arts from a young age. Most people do it to learn how to defend themselves and big guys have less of an incentive to do so.

If you were playing football in high school instead of taking bjj you probably are going to take that route in high school as well.

Martial arts training is just too expensive for many working class, and even middle class, families to afford. It is a great gift to give to your children, if you can, while putting away money for college, but a lot of people can't do both, or even one.