Difference between being an outstanding athlete, and an outstanding fighter

[Singlelegsweep]

Hoping to start a discussion regarding the trend of Sherdogs using the phrase "A level athlete" and making claims that the united states best athletes "choose" the NFL/NBA over MMA.

My point of view is that.

A) Athletes don't decide to go to the NFL/NBA over MMA just on a decision, it's more so the fact that those people play Football and Basketball from elementary school and decide to go that route because it's where a lifetime of skill and practice leads them. People very rarely start boxing at a young age, so there is a disconnect between measuring athletic prowess from fighting ability. Some people do start wresting very young, and as a result a lot of very very highly regarded wrestlers fight in MMA, from all americans, to NCAA champions, to even Olympic competitors. And almost nobody starts training MMA at an early age - So I think it's reasonable to assume "A Level Athletes", as measured by football and basketball success don't avoid MMA because of the money, but rather because they have spent a lifetime playing a specific sport

Hypothetical question to prove this point: Do you think Lebron James, after being an amazing high school basketball player, would decide to start training MMA if he was offered 10 million per fight? I believe he would stick to the sport he knows

B) Pro teams draft a player based on a combination of skill and athleticism. I'd venture that the people with the fastest run times and strongest lifts are sometimes not drafted, because they are not as skilled as other players who are still athletic, but not "the most athletic". - I think it's reasonable to assume the NFL/NBA don't just pick the best athletes, but the most skilled players

Hypothetical question to prove this point: Do you think Bret Farve or Kobe Bryant, 2 of the best in there sport, were the most athletic players of there era? I believe they were not

C) Being the more athletic person, doesn't win fights. Do you think Griffen was more athletic than Rampage? Machida more athletic than Rashad? Rua more athletic than Machida?

TUF 10 had 4 former NFL players, including a #1 draft pick. Yet Roy Nelson won, perhaps the least athletic person on the show.

 

[Face Punch]

OSP is a great example of this. Fantastic athlete when he was at UT. As a Nashville native, I remember watching him play. Fighting is a different beast, though. Grappling especially.

 

[ALAN PARTRIDGE]

GSP was both

 

[mst-dot]

you can be both.
obviously someone with great fighting instincts and ridiculous ability would be ideal.

 

[EndlessCritic]

Why would anyone who is good enough to go to the NFL and make that kind of money risk getting KTFO'ed making peanuts in local shows?

 

[tenniswhiz]

Why would anyone who is good enough to go to the NFL and make that kind of money risk getting KTFO'ed making peanuts in local shows?

Stupid question.

To have a chance to get on Dana White's good side.

 

[Monkfish]

Stipe Miocic Was a great athlete that then turned to MMA later on in life.

Played Baseball and Football I believe.

 

[Mike Schwartz]

MMA will be a "Plan B" for foorball players and NCAA wrestlers when they graduate and can't make it in the pros/Olympics...just the way it is until more money can be made for even the B Tier fighters...until they can make good money than that's the way it will be.

 

[accolyte1022]

Outstanding athlete's (LeBron) house:

Outstanding fighter's house:

 

[KillerElite]

Rumble is a perfect example of this all athlete but his gas tank is pathetic.

 

[AndrewGolota48]

Why would anyone who is good enough to go to the NFL and make that kind of money risk getting KTFO'ed making peanuts in local shows?

Because if it was THAT easy for these superheroes, as a dominant HW MMA champ they'd take virtually no damage and only have to really work two days a year other than training and promotion, yet would still pull down at least 5 mil a year but likely much more. Sounds like a better lifestyle than having your body annihilated each week in the NFL, getting brain damage and being half crippled by retirement.

The problem is, it's not that easy.

 

[IBeLurkin]

I think a lot of people overlook the mental aspect of it. Brock is a good example of this. Fantastic athlete, but just doesn't have that 'it' factor to take a good shot and give one back. We all saw how badly he reacted to getting hit, and he just might be the best athlete the UFC has seen.

Fighting, by its very nature, takes a certain mental make-up in order to be successful. You'll hear tons of fighters talk about how important the mental side of fighting is (I remember Matt Hughes saying the mental side is the most important). It's true for any sport, and I think especially so for fighting. It takes a little bit of crazy to hit someone as hard as you can when they haven't done you any wrong and you barely know them.

That's why you'll see guys who are athletic as hell, but they're the first to run if things get ugly. LeBron James is telling the truth when he talks about it, he's no fighter. If Donald Cerrone could body-swap with James like some awesome Dragonball Z thing, he'd be the best fighter in the world. But James just isn't a fighter. Freak athlete, but not a fighter.

If you don't have the mental side (which I believe you're born with), it doesn't matter how good of an athlete you are.

 

[Fbed]

So I think it's reasonable to assume "A Level Athletes", as measured by football and basketball success don't avoid MMA because of the money, but rather because they have spent a lifetime playing a specific sport

lol No.

 

[blewgums]

Donald Trump is 500 times better than those UFC guys! If he had puny submissions like that he'd be embarrassed to use them!

Donald is the real UFC champion, and everyone knows it! Cain is ducking him! They all are! Dana knows...

 

[Zeppeling]

Hoping to start a discussion regarding the trend of Sherdogs using the phrase "A level athlete" and making claims that the united states best athletes "choose" the NFL/NBA over MMA.

My point of view is that.

A) Athletes don't decide to go to the NFL/NBA over MMA just on a decision, it's more so the fact that those people play Football and Basketball from elementary school and decide to go that route because it's where a lifetime of skill and practice leads them. People very rarely start boxing at a young age, so there is a disconnect between measuring athletic prowess from fighting ability. Some people do start wresting very young, and as a result a lot of very very highly regarded wrestlers fight in MMA, from all americans, to NCAA champions, to even Olympic competitors. And almost nobody starts training MMA at an early age - So I think it's reasonable to assume "A Level Athletes", as measured by football and basketball success don't avoid MMA because of the money, but rather because they have spent a lifetime playing a specific sport

Hypothetical question to prove this point: Do you think Lebron James, after being an amazing high school basketball player, would decide to start training MMA if he was offered 10 million per fight? I believe he would stick to the sport he knows

B) Pro teams draft a player based on a combination of skill and athleticism. I'd venture that the people with the fastest run times and strongest lifts are sometimes not drafted, because they are not as skilled as other players who are still athletic, but not "the most athletic". - I think it's reasonable to assume the NFL/NBA don't just pick the best athletes, but the most skilled players

Hypothetical question to prove this point: Do you think Bret Farve or Kobe Bryant, 2 of the best in there sport, were the most athletic players of there era? I believe they were not

C) Being the more athletic person, doesn't win fights. Do you think Griffen was more athletic than Rampage? Machida more athletic than Rashad? Rua more athletic than Machida?

TUF 10 had 4 former NFL players, including a #1 draft pick. Yet Roy Nelson won, perhaps the least athletic person on the show.

The point is not necessarily that athleticism guarantees the best fighter, but if you put the best skills in the hands of the best athlete that fighter will be much better at using those skills. In the same way that if you give the best skills to a shit athlete then that dude is more often than not still gonna get wrecked in a bar fight. Being a top flight athlete means that naturally you have amazing coordination, speed, dexterity, balance, flexibility, power, and strength. The combination of those traits can ONLY aid in developing a fighter, and in almost no circumstance can prove to be a disadvantage.

Looking over the current UFC heavyweights and LHW you will notice an INCREDIBLE drop in athleticism from 125-185 guys, why is this? Well... most guys that are elite athletes at a professional level do, in fact, pursue other sports that reward much more money. You are right, the talent pool for MMA is inherently lower than any other sport because it is not scholastic nor is it popular to train young. But you can't tell me a dude like Julius Peppers/Mario Williams/JJ Watt/Grownkowski/Jimmy Graham would not have an AMAZING advantage over joe schmoe who has an ego problem so trained MMA to beat ass. The talent at the heavier divisions simply has an anemic amount of true athletes. Whether those athletes I mentioned would be world champions or not is not the point. The point is that even with a year training those dudes would be much tougher fights than probably anyone else on the roster.

People who consider NFL/NBA athletes physique as a disadvantage are so delirious from only seeing low level athletes pump roids and gas out that they can't comprehend how a true physical freak trains. If you scale the lower division champions to a 255 lb heavyweight they would ALL look more physically imposing than everyone currently at heavyweight. It just shows the state of the division. We have dudes that fight at 20+ % body fat and then turn around and try to convince a forum that a 260 lb 8% body fat dude would gas in 2 minutes.

Hopefully someone reads haha

 

[Zeppeling]

I think a lot of people overlook the mental aspect of it. Brock is a good example of this. Fantastic athlete, but just doesn't have that 'it' factor to take a good shot and give one back. We all saw how badly he reacted to getting hit, and he just might be the best athlete the UFC has seen.

Fighting, by its very nature, takes a certain mental make-up in order to be successful. You'll hear tons of fighters talk about how important the mental side of fighting is (I remember Matt Hughes saying the mental side is the most important). It's true for any sport, and I think especially so for fighting. It takes a little bit of crazy to hit someone as hard as you can when they haven't done you any wrong and you barely know them.

That's why you'll see guys who are athletic as hell, but they're the first to run if things get ugly. LeBron James is telling the truth when he talks about it, he's no fighter. If Donald Cerrone could body-swap with James like some awesome Dragonball Z thing, he'd be the best fighter in the world. But James just isn't a fighter. Freak athlete, but not a fighter.

If you don't have the mental side (which I believe you're born with), it doesn't matter how good of an athlete you are.

This will happen. From time to time some people - especially 40 year old green fighters - will not take well to being hit. That goes for every build and body type. You can't assume that an a-level athlete will be any more or less prone to crumbling from being hit.

 

[bad seed]

Ronda Rouseys crib:

Michael Phelps' crib:

The difference between bronze and gold.

 

[Malthian]

This will happen. From time to time some people - especially 40 year old green fighters - will not take well to being hit. That goes for every build and body type. You can't assume that an a-level athlete will be any more or less prone to crumbling from being hit.

No more or no less, but most human beings aren't conditioned and/or don't have the wiring needed to be a Fighter any more than everyone can be a great business person or politician.

It's not natural to be physically adversarial. Most people avoid conflict and aren't the type that want to hit someone or be hit by someone for a living. It's more than training, it's a reckless disregard of one's own health as well as abnormally high tolerance for pain.

Some people have that tunnel vision where they can focus in on a single objective regardless of the threat to their safety. Even among MMA fighters there are few that have the sort of reckless mentality where they would literally put everything on the line to NOT lose.

It's also part of why we admire fighters, that they will get hit in the head, break their hands, have their toe falling off, or crushed bones in their face and they will keep on fighting and not want to quit.

That is not something that is common among the population regardless of the level of athlete any more than it was common among the sword swinging knights or the soldiers in WW2.

There's a reason that we give out medals for valor and bravery. It's because it is uncommon and unnatural to put victory above all else.

Even if MMA paid more than every other sport, most A level athletes would STILL not train in MMA. The prospect of getting your head beaten in for a living isn't worth it to most people, regardless of the compensation.

 

[Al Overrated]

Nobody hates MMA as much as MMA fans

 

[AP_RESURRECTION]

its kind of dumb to fight in some ways you need to love it and be tough as holy hell