Didn't Jones always intend to retire after Stipe?

[SuperAlly]

He has two choice, sit there do nothing or move on.

Re read penultimate paragraph until you understand why you are wrong

 

[Tweak896]

Well... lets look at Jones competition, all the double champs, what they did at a higher weight class....

1. Conor: Never defended and fucked off until stripped, attempted to get it back but was destroyed by Khabib.
2. DC: Only defended one time in a short notice fight against one of the worst title contenders at HW, then promptly finished by the guy who he won the title against.
3. Nunes: 145 shouldn't exist, but she defended against Megan Anderson in her retirement fight and Spencer who went 1-1 after.
4. Cejudo: defended against an old Cruz and retired.
5. GSP: retired for "health"
6. BJ Penn: left UFC never defended WW title, lost to the same guy in rematch
7. Couture: won HW title 2 times both times defended 1x. 1st was rematch with Rizzo and the 2nd against Gonzaga. Then lost to Barnett and Brock after.

Not sure who I missed.
8. Jones: defended against old Stipe

No male champion ever defended a higher belt more than once in a row, only Nunes did it. It's up to you if you think 145 wmma counts. Basically people hold Jones to a higher standard for no other reason than hating him.

 

[SuperAlly]

Well... lets look at Jones competition, all the double champs, what they did at a higher weight class....

1. Conor: Never defended and fucked off until stripped, attempted to get it back but was destroyed by Khabib.
2. DC: Only defended one time in a short notice fight against one of the worst title contenders at HW, then promptly finished by the guy who he won the title against.
3. Nunes: 145 shouldn't exist, but she defended against Megan Anderson in her retirement fight and Spencer who went 1-1 after.
4. Cejudo: defended against an old Cruz and retired.
5. GSP: retired for "health"
6. BJ Penn: left UFC never defended WW title, lost to the same guy in rematch
7. Couture: won HW title 2 times both times defended 1x. 1st was rematch with Rizzo and the 2nd against Gonzaga. Then lost to Barnett and Brock after.

Not sure who I missed.
8. Jones: defended against old Stipe

No male champion ever defended a higher belt more than once in a row, only Nunes did it. It's up to you if you think 145 wmma counts. Basically people hold Jones to a higher standard for no other reason than hating him.

Your argument lacks logic.

 

[mkess101]

Tom was taken down multiple times by a smaller man in Austin. He was taken down within the first 30 seconds. He even was hip tossed twice in a row at one point all within the first 3 minutes of the fight and then held down for the remainder of the 1st rd. He then gets taken immediately starting the 2nd rd. Did you watch the fight?

And at 50% intensity when the entire point of their exchange was Tom trying to stop a takedown, that’s not a good sign at all. Either way I’m hoping should Jones and Tom fight their bout is entertaining.

It sounded like you were referencing why he lost to Austin. Which had nothing to do with TDD. Either way, it was a decade ago in his 4th pro fight. Using a couple examples of guys who didn't improve their wrestling much in their careers seems disingenuous. Most guys do improve ALL parts of their game from their very early fights.

The "entire point" of Tom and Monye was them messing around. They're laughing and clearly not at full intensity. It's really foolish to take anything at all away from that.

 

[Tweak896]

Your argument lacks logic.

Which double champ did more than Jones?
Couture is probably best defending double champ, but he had a real spotty record at HW
Cejudo beat a fresher Cruz than Stipe, but lets not pretend Cruz was in his prime, he almost went 1-2 after the fight if the Munhoz decision went the other way.

So logically, what's better? The 2 guys above Jones lost a bunch more in the higher weightclass after defending once. I mean that's his competition.

 

[mkess101]

He has two choice, sit there do nothing or move on.

Yet you still can't explain what "move on" means. Like...fly to France and drag Gane off a movie set into the cage? How do you not understand that Aspinall is not Sean Shelby? He doesn't get to just decide who he fights.

 

[SuperAlly]

Which double champ did more than Jones?
Couture is probably best defending double champ, but he had a real spotty record at HW
Cejudo beat a fresher Cruz than Stipe, but lets not pretend Cruz was in his prime, he almost went 1-2 after the fight if the Munhoz decision went the other way.

So logically, what's better? The 2 guys above Jones lost a bunch more in the higher weightclass after defending once. I mean that's his competition.

Whether other guys were able to successfully defend a new belt multiple times does not excuse Jon ducking Tom.

At least some of those other guys had the decency to try or relinquish the belt.

You are fighting a straw man essentially

 

[Tweak896]

Whether other guys were able to successfully defend a new belt multiple times does not excuse Jon ducking Tom.

At least some of those other guys had the decency to try or relinquish the belt.

You are fighting a straw man essentially

I'm saying if you ranked double champs in their higher weight class, who exactly is Jones behind? Okay Stipe win isn't prime Stipe, but they all are shit or ran away after they won.

 

[mkess101]

I'm saying if you ranked double champs in their higher weight class, who exactly is Jones behind? Okay Stipe win isn't prime Stipe, but they all are shit or ran away after they won.

The bigger point seems to be the double champ shit is lame. The actual double champ (holding up 2 divisions) is ridiculous and the UFC was right to not allow it anymore. But even guys who vacate and move up...seem to have really short time horizons. We will see with Islam and Topuria if they win. Topuria I could see wanting to have a long reign at 155. Islam? He may well pull a Khabib.

 

[Tweak896]

The bigger point seems to be the double champ shit is lame. The actual double champ (holding up 2 divisions) is ridiculous and the UFC was right to not allow it anymore. But even guys who vacate and move up...seem to have really short time horizons. We will see with Islam and Topuria if they win. Topuria I could see wanting to have a long reign at 155. Islam? He may well pull a Khabib.

100%, each one ended up fucking their division. Which also makes Jones less unique in this regard. It's UFC's fault. But I think they realize it now, seems like everyone from now on has to vacate. Champs are at the point of on average defending less than 2x a year.

 

[AL-Tappo McSnappo]

Re read penultimate paragraph until you understand why you are wrong

You should have quoted him, can't go through all them pages to find his post.

 

[SuperAlly]

You should have quoted him, can't go through all them pages to find his post.

I'm not doing your homework for you as to why you can't understand a simple point that has been explained to you multiple times by multiple posters.

 

[snaportap21]

It sounded like you were referencing why he lost to Austin. Which had nothing to do with TDD. Either way, it was a decade ago in his 4th pro fight. Using a couple examples of guys who didn't improve their wrestling much in their careers seems disingenuous. Most guys do improve ALL parts of their game from their very early fights.

The "entire point" of Tom and Monye was them messing around. They're laughing and clearly not at full intensity. It's really foolish to take anything at all away from that.

Even messing around there’s no reason Tom should have been taken down. Tom said try to take me down and he was to do his best not to be taken down. It’d be foolish to ignore that completely. And using examples of fighters who had trouble improving their tdd isn’t disingenuous it’s something that happens quite often. Even Izzy was recently taken down multiple times against DDP. It’s not uncommon for people who primarily strike to have trouble improving their tdd.

 

[mkess101]

Even messing around there’s no reason Tom should have been taken down. Tom said try to take me down and he was to do his best not to be taken down. It’d be foolish to ignore that completely. And using examples of fighters who had trouble improving their tdd isn’t disingenuous it’s something that happens quite often. Even Izzy was recently taken down multiple times against DDP. It’s not uncommon for people who primarily strike to have trouble improving their tdd.

Izzy was recently taken down because he's getting old and on the downside of his career LOL. How did his TDD and anti grappling look vs Vettori for example who tried to grapple him the whole fight.

It's honestly ridiculous that you'd think most fighters don't improve massively from age 22 to 32 when they're full time and 22 on the regional scene to 32 and arguably the actual best HW on planet earth. Please think about that for a second.

And yes, messing around is just that. Messing around.

 

[Alpha_T83]

No. His plan after Stipe was to fight Alex Pereira. He said a few times that was the fight he wanted. And it's still on the table IMO.

 

[snaportap21]

Izzy was recently taken down because he's getting old and on the downside of his career LOL. How did his TDD and anti grappling look vs Vettori for example who tried to grapple him the whole fight.

It's honestly ridiculous that you'd think most fighters don't improve massively from age 22 to 32 when they're full time and 22 on the regional scene to 32 and arguably the actual best HW on planet earth. Please think about that for a second.

And yes, messing around is just that. Messing around.

Marvin took Adesanya down multiple times each time they fought. And some fighters have trouble stopping the takedown their entire career. It remains to be seen if Tom is one of those fighters. And the point is Tom told a rugby player he would do his best to prevent him from being taken down and he still was taken down. To ignore that would be foolish. It shows tdd isn’t second nature to Tom. Even joking around, someone like Khabib would not allow that to happen.

 

[mkess101]

Marvin took Adesanya down multiple times each time they fought. And some fighters have trouble stopping the takedown their entire career. It remains to be seen if Tom is one of those fighters. And the point is Tom told a rugby player he would do his best to prevent him from being taken down and he still was taken down. To ignore that would be foolish. It shows tdd isn’t second nature to Tom. Even joking around, someone like Khabib would not allow that to happen.

So at HW with the striking skillset Tom has he needs to be Khabib? FFS dude...

 

[snaportap21]

So at HW with the striking skillset Tom has he needs to be Khabib? FFS dude...

Never said that. I just named a fighter with stellar takedown defense to point out that a fighter with stellar takedown defense even when half serious wouldn’t be briefly taken down by an amateur. Let’s end this exchange. I hope the rest of your day goes well.

 

[mkess101]

Never said that. I just named a fighter with stellar takedown defense to point out that a fighter with stellar takedown defense even when half serious wouldn’t be briefly taken down by an amateur. Let’s end this exchange. I hope the rest of your day goes well.

You have proof Khabib (or any specific fighter for that matter) wouldn't be taken down when just messing around? Of course not. That's conjecture on your part.

But I hope you have a good night too.

 

[SuperAlly]

You have proof Khabib (or any specific fighter for that matter) wouldn't be taken down when just messing around? Of course not. That's conjecture on your part.

But I hope you have a good night too.

It's a show Tom does for entertainment and to educate fans

If he just stopped Monye from taking him down 100% of the time it would completely defeat the point of the segment on the show