Social DEI is so dead

[ferrisjso]

I can't seem to find the study anymore, but the 2009 Princeton study was referenced by multiple publications.



This was only for Princeton or Ivy league school admission. Forgot which.



They 100% are getting shafted. In the affirmative action lawsuit, Harvard tried (really hard) to keep their own internal study out of evidence.

Their OWN internal study found Asians were being discriminated against in admissions. They were forced to reveal it by the judge.



The Asian students that didn't get in despite better qualifications would beg to differ.

And why is it Asian students had to score higher than WHITE STUDENTS ALSO? White students are the majority and not disadvantaged like black and Latino students. Yet the Asian students had to score higher than them as well - despite white students making up the majority of the school population.

They did DEI on the backs of Asian students and didn't penalize the white students.

One other major point.

Asians are being lumped into ONE HUGE MONOLITHIC group even though they're really diverse and make up more than 50% of the world's population. Koreans, Japanese, Vietnamese, Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese, Kazakhstanis, Indonesians, Benaglis, etc.

They're being treated as one single group that's all the same. That in and of itself is racist.

AA is not about reversing discrimination. Its about making diverse classes that are representative of the community. And in an American community Asians of all identities are usually less than 5%. Thats the core of the issue.

 

[Hog-train]

That wouldn't make sense because we have the data for Harvard and it's only a 120-130 point difference. You and I have both referenced this during our exchanges. Scores for the less selective Ivies are still only 10-20 points below the top ones like Harvard and Princeton.

120-130 SAT difference is a significant difference in a 1600 SAT.

450 points just doesn't fit anywhere

Why? I saw many articles referencing the Princeton study. Keep in mind, it was 2009.

Yeah, they would beg to differ because they didn't get into Harvard or Princeton like their parents have unhealthily pressured them to attend since they were in pre-K and had to settle for Northwestern, Duke, or Georgetown. I'm not shedding tears for them.

But they were also getting shafted at Duke, Georgetown and Northwestern too.

And it's not only the 1500+ SAT scorers that are getting screwed. It's the 1300+ Asian SAT scorers screwed the most. Still good scores but not perfect, They're at a severe disadvantage.

Study after study after study show that SAT scores correlate almost perfectly with family income and wealth.

So to be nitpicky about SAT scores and filter out anyone that strays too far from the mean will effectively filter out anyone that's not very wealthy. So these institutions that are already notorious for being the playground of the super elite... will become even more elite. Get out of the way, middle-class black dude, here comes yet another Asian son of an executive mom and physician dad.

Here's where your bias is showing. There are a lot of Asian students that come from poor backgrounds.

Once again, you're labeling ALL Asians as one monolithic group.

I'm Korean myself and grew up poor in NYC - never got any special tutoring. Yet I did well on the SAT's by - cough, cough STUDYING. Anyone can get a Barron's SAT prep book.

I mean, you gotta draw the line somewhere, just for the sake of practicality.

Are you gonna have a category for every country in the world? If so, why not break it down further? An indigenous Mexican from a small village in the southern part of the country is gonna live a very different life than rich, white Mexican from Monterrey, yet they'll both get the "Mexican" category.

Having all Asians in one giant category carries problems but it's hard to come up with viable alternatives. Maybe break it down to a handful of subgroups: West Asian (Middle East, Central Asia) South Asian, East Asian, and SE Asian? There's just no easy answers.

Or we can do the very simple and fair thing. Meritocracy.

All Asians are SIGNIFICANTLY more diverse than just black Americans.

 

[fica]

What can I say liberal anti racist made DEI to be all that negative people say here just to piss of people who disagree that blacks should have preferential treatment. So now nobody likes dei and not just white bit other races because white libs don't have hard on and fetish for them like they do for blacks. Libs like to make this world where American whites and poor global blacks are only one acting in this drama but there is more then these two people in this world so those people don't see the logic in this American made crap

 

[RoastBeast]

AA is not about reversing discrimination. Its about making diverse classes that are representative of the community. And in an American community Asians of all identities are usually less than 5%. Thats the core of the issue.

Then why aren't they diversifying hotel housekeeping jobs with men? Why aren't they diversifying concrete foundation jobs with women?

Seems as if they only want diversity when it comes to higher education and high paying jobs. I've also never seen anyone on the left call for diversity when there aren't enough men or white people at a job. Why is that? Seems like it's okay to not have that part of the community represented.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

Why? I saw many articles referencing the Princeton study. Keep in mind, it was 2009.

I saw them too and I believe it, I just can't see where 450 points come from.

And my point is, if there's a 120-point difference at Harvard, how can there be a 450-point difference at "elite universities," "leading universities" or whatever term they used?

But they were also getting shafted at Duke, Georgetown and Northwestern too.

And it's not only the 1500+ SAT scorers that are getting screwed. It's the 1300+ Asian SAT scorers screwed the most. Still good scores but not perfect, They're at a severe disadvantage.

It's extremely unlikely that they're getting rejected everywhere. Not in any significant numbers at least.

Even that kid that had near-perfect SATs a few years back and became famous for getting rejected from about 10 top schools actually did get accepted by 2-4 schools. I can't find the names of these schools anywhere but I'd be willing to bet, they're also extremely high-quality. So he got rejected from MIT, Stanford, and Caltech but accepted to UVA or Rice or Vanderbilt or something.

Here's where your bias is showing. There are a lot of Asian students that come from poor backgrounds.

Once again, you're labeling ALL Asians as one monolithic group.

I'm Korean myself and grew up poor in NYC - never got any special tutoring. Yet I did well on the SAT's by - cough, cough STUDYING. Anyone can get a Barron's SAT prep book.

I think you're the one showing your bias, friend.

Facts are facts and the numbers are very clear. Asians have greater levels of education, higher per year earnings, and greater net worth than all groups, whites included. When broken down further, some subgroups like Indians, Chinese, Koreans are on the high end of this and Hmong, Cambodians, on the lower end. And SAT scores align very closely with wealth.

Your personal story doesn't change the trend because it's an outlier, an exception. Just like the Obama girls being born to wealth and privilege doesn't change that blacks overall have the lowest wealth, income, scores, etc.

Or we can do the very simple and fair thing. Meritocracy.

All Asians are SIGNIFICANTLY more diverse than just black Americans.

It can be argued that Affirmative Action achieved true meritocracy because it took into account the structures that produce certain scores.

 

[Hog-train]

I saw them too and I believe it, I just can't see where 450 points come from.

And my point is, if there's a 120-point difference at Harvard, how can there be a 450-point difference at "elite universities," "leading universities" or whatever term they used?

I have no idea if it was at "elite universities." Maybe it was just Princeton during the 2009 era.

It's extremely unlikely that they're getting rejected everywhere. Not in any significant numbers at least.

Even that kid that had near-perfect SATs a few years back and became famous for getting rejected from about 10 top schools actually did get accepted by 2-4 schools. I can't find the names of these schools anywhere but I'd be willing to bet, they're also extremely high-quality. So he got rejected from MIT, Stanford, and Caltech but accepted to UVA or Rice or Vanderbilt or something.

That's irrelevant. They still got rejected in favor of other students that were less qualified just based on the color of their skin.

I think you're the one showing your bias, friend.

Facts are facts and the numbers are very clear. Asians have greater levels of education, higher per year earnings, and greater net worth than all groups, whites included. When broken down further, some subgroups like Indians, Chinese, Koreans are on the high end of this and Hmong, Cambodians, on the lower end. And SAT scores align very closely with wealth.

Your personal story doesn't change the trend because it's an outlier, an exception. Just like the Obama girls being born to wealth and privilege doesn't change that blacks overall have the lowest wealth, income, scores, etc.

Wrong. In New York City, Asians are actually among the poorest ethnic group. On par with black and Latino residents.

Nearly 1 in 4 Asian New Yorkers live in poverty, nearly twice the poverty rate of White New Yorkers (24% vs. 13%).

Portrait of Disadvantage Among Asian Americans in New York City in 2022 — Columbia University Center on Poverty and Social Policy

This special portrait report provides a glimpse at poverty and disadvantage among Asian American New Yorkers, who too often fall through the cracks in data representation

www.povertycenter.columbia.edu

You're stereotyping on the high end, when there are a LOT of poor Asians.

It can be argued that Affirmative Action achieved true meritocracy because it took into account the structures that produce certain scores.

True meritocracy is best person gets in regardless of skin color.

 

[fica]

Reverse racism is made up nonsense

There is already a term for when people are prejudiced against those of a different race. It’s called racism. White people can be racist. Black people can be racist. Asian people can be racist. Anyone can be racist. We don’t need new terms to describe different forms of racism or to somehow diminish racism exhibited by black people.

For example, sinister clearly harbours a lot of racist feelings against white people

No Americans always like to create crap now it is white male vs poor black males DEI moment because to USA libs and conservatives there is only two races and one nationality American whites and global blacks lol. But most dumbest people in America black American abs white Americans are like bsing to other nationalities and races in America to convince us who we should " cheer" for. Lol I mean these two groups annoy whole country whith their vision how America should be.and we all other whites and other races and nationalities in USA SHOUld be mesmerized love and follow their stupidity. If any other race or nationality come to tell how they should follow them they are aggressively with hostility shut down like vivek was. I mean having a guy tell truth in country where everybody in these two groups is bsing is new

 

[ermac88]

blcks and white liberals do not want utopian sociaty they want what they have now and what they push for i just watched video does reverse racism exist asking blacks lol. people who benefit the most from so called racism talk dont believe anybody else can be vcitim of racism crazy ha. same ting with white liberals who created their income from finding racism against black for profit do they want their income to dry up

What on Earth did you attempt to type?

 

[ermac88]

Well, It ceases to be a meritocracy if you exclude the most successful candidates based on race as some sort of disqualifying criteria.
Where there is quota there is perceived equity we treat as equality.

America has never been remotely close to a meritocracy

I think the idea of DEI is to mitigate the centuries of the countries implicit racial (and other) prejudices, which sadly still exist.

I mean, look at this forum.

 

[TankAbbott4Eva]

Then why aren't they diversifying hotel housekeeping jobs with men? Why aren't they diversifying concrete foundation jobs with women?

Seems as if they only want diversity when it comes to higher education and high paying jobs. I've also never seen anyone on the left call for diversity when there aren't enough men or white people at a job. Why is that? Seems like it's okay to not have that part of the community represented.

This is correct. I mean "everyone benefits from diversity" right? I've heard the argument that an engineering team needs people from diverse backgrounds to make the calculations and do the design. However when laying the bricks and building the frame you don't need diversity or something, weird.

 

[Scerpi]

AA is not about reversing discrimination. Its about making diverse classes that are representative of the community. And in an American community Asians of all identities are usually less than 5%. Thats the core of the issue.

So what?

You're going to penalize one arbitrary group because they all work too hard and are successful?

In order to reward another group that can't keep up with the national average?

Sex and Race should be left off applications and entrance determine by merit alone.

 

[ferrisjso]

So what?

You're going to penalize one arbitrary group because they all work too hard and are successful?

In order to reward another group that can't keep up with the national average?

Sex and Race should be left off applications and entrance determine by merit alone.

But we're talking more a tie breaker here between people who would have had a case to get admitted without it.

If black people can't keep up with the national average that is entirely irrelevant to this situation.

And you're just not getting this concept. In your mind an average black student is being elevated over a 4.0/2300 Asian. When the truth is the best schools have a large group of people who meet their admissions standards and they are looking for ways to filter them. And AA is one of several ways they do this. That is an admissions officers job to filter through the people who meet their standards. Aka discrminate.

The point of AA is wanting the class to be representative of the larger population. Its not the URM system law schools use which give Black people, Mexicans and especially Native Americans a sizeable advantage for historical reasons(hence why everyone was mad at Elizabeth Warren).

 

[The_Renaissance]

So what?

You're going to penalize one arbitrary group because they all work too hard and are successful?

In order to reward another group that can't keep up with the national average?

Sex and Race should be left off applications and entrance determine by merit alone.

All job and academic applications should be completely anonymous - no names, no photos, no way of knowing the sex or race of the applicant unless it's crucial such as for example, woman's rape counsellor needed - female only.

 

[Belaya Smert]

America has never been remotely close to a meritocracy

I think the idea of DEI is to mitigate the centuries of the countries implicit racial (and other) prejudices, which sadly still exist.

I mean, look at this forum.

So you want the “systemically racist” country to be in charge of enforcing fairness and equality?
I mean sure sherdog is an aggregate for society as a whole. Obviously.

 

[SuperAlly]

America has never been remotely close to a meritocracy

I think the idea of DEI is to mitigate the centuries of the countries implicit racial (and other) prejudices, which sadly still exist.

I mean, look at this forum.

Yeh guys like sinister are racist as fuck against white people

Good example

 

[tastaylvr]

Wrong. In New York City, Asians are actually among the poorest ethnic group. On par with black and Latino residents.

Nearly 1 in 4 Asian New Yorkers live in poverty, nearly twice the poverty rate of White New Yorkers (24% vs. 13%).

You're stereotyping on the high end, when there are a LOT of poor Asians.

This is irrelevant.

The fact that there are a lot of poor asians doesn’t change the fact that the biggest correlating factor for high sat scores is family wealth. The fact that poor asians existing doesn’t magically make them the ones getting denied from Ivy League schools.

Parental income is actually the biggest indicator that a child will succeed and has the highest correlating factor out of every known data point.

It’s the main point that the mod in this thread was missing. It’s easier to get a high sat score when you are going to the best schools where their whole curriculum is around doing good on these tests.

I’ve seen those same kids in uni. Get the best scores in high school then just fizzle out and become nobodies due to the structural change.

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

I think the idea of DEI is to mitigate the centuries of the countries implicit racial (and other) prejudices, which sadly still exist.

Implemented by a bunch of ivy league weirdos. Brilliant.

 

[BIKES!]

The speaker was parroting that same old line too, about how diversity is so important to a company's success, because it brings in different viewpoints...

That's such bullshit. Can you imagine everyone in a meeting, and the boss says, "I like Maria's idea. Good thing her grandparents were from Mexico or else she never would've thought of it."

Diversity of pigment and sex is not diversity of thought.

DEI is dead and a lot of industries are getting out before the truth about illegal hiring and promoting gets out. There are countless cases out there, it's just getting started.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

It’s the main point that the mod in this thread was missing. It’s easier to get a high sat score when you are going to the best schools where their whole curriculum is around doing good on these tests.

More than the quality of the schools' curriculum it's the quality of their home life and quality of classmates that allows upper class kids to do so much better on these tests.

The vast majority of well-off kids have professional parents who read to them on a regular basis, who speak to them with a broad vocabulary, who know better than to put them in front of an ipad or TV for 10 hours a day, who will check on their homework and classwork on daily basis, etc. Those alone put them far ahead of working class peers.

Then their schools are full of other kids like them who are also very privileged and whose expectation is to attend college so high achievement and learning becomes part of their culture. Obviously they still have to work hard to get good scores but it's far easier than for working-class, minority kids who have few if any of these advantages.

 

[ermac88]

So you want the “systemically racist” country to be in charge of enforcing fairness and equality?
I mean sure sherdog is an aggregate for society as a whole. Obviously.

I dont understand what you are trying to type?

Do I want America to strive to be fair equal country?

Is that what you are asking?