Cro Cops destruction of Remy must be studied in the heavies

[BowserJr]

oh boy you’re a belfort fan too why am I not surprised

mental midgets unite

The only thing you've proven is that you're know nothing noob/troll. You dodge questions and just shit post.

Congrats on saying nonsense over and over

 

[AMAZINGUFC]

 

[Deleted member 110072]

You've posted this before but it's worth acknowledging how so many fans have this weird idea that fighters are in their primes in their 30s but it's fucking ludicrous. Randy Couture starting his MMA career at 34 and being a champ in his 40s is NOT the fucking norm. We all loved Randy because he was NOT normal. Especially when we're talking about fighters who start their careers between 18-22, to even expect them to be in their primes after 10+ years fighting is stupid, but to actually think that someone like Cro Cop was at his best in 2007 just boggles the mind. It really makes me sad that so many MMA fans are that dumb.

Late starters are not THAT rare in MMA of course if perhaps not as late as Randy but increasingly I think the issue with that is the current environment isnt great at going after young talent and getting them fighting at an elite level fast. What is I think clearly true is that a MMA career will very often have a time limit attached to it, the level of training needed to sustain elite form(espeically if your ultra active like Mirko) takes a big toll on the body, most guys who start an elite career in their early 20's will be burning out by their mid 30's.

I would say again I think Gonzaga is a lot like Randleman, issues like unawareness of elbows were a factor but along with that Gabe was just a dangerous flakey fighter, he catches the first mid kick Mirko throws for a takedown and the first high kick he throws lands plum, to me thats a performance he showed he couldnt repeat often.

Mirko's style as well for me was one which was fundamentally quite risky, he would spend a lot of time in the danger zone right infront of people and bank on his movement and counters to get the best of them. He would not generally look to pick away from long range disrupting people with lighter strikes to set up bigger shots he would only look for the bigger shots, even his jabs and lowkicks were thrown with serious power. That meant he was in harms way a lot depending on showing high level skill to win, he rarely played it safe.

 

[Bullitt68]

Late starters are not THAT rare in MMA of course if perhaps not as late as Randy but increasingly I think the issue with that is the current environment isnt great at going after young talent and getting them fighting at an elite level fast.

True. In the early days, most guys were on the older side simply because the UFC came out of nowhere and so experienced martial artists, wrestlers, BJJ guys, etc., were the ones who signed up. Then it started to bring in the young talent, but now as MMA has become a more lucrative career option, it seems that we're again seeing more and more older/late starters.

What is I think clearly true is that a MMA career will very often have a time limit attached to it, the level of training needed to sustain elite form(espeically if your ultra active like Mirko) takes a big toll on the body, most guys who start an elite career in their early 20's will be burning out by their mid 30's.

QFT.

I would say again I think Gonzaga is a lot like Randleman, issues like unawareness of elbows were a factor but along with that Gabe was just a dangerous flakey fighter, he catches the first mid kick Mirko throws for a takedown and the first high kick he throws lands plum, to me thats a performance he showed he couldnt repeat often.

Yup. Randleman, too, had the perfect gameplan, playing to his wrestling strengths and having Cro Cop thinking TD before uncorking that monster left hook from Hell. To Randleman's credit, he did have great hand speed and power - not only did he wobble Randy in their UFC fight, but he blew up Ninja's face in PRIDE as well - but the timing of that left hook right at the exact moment that Cro Cop was bringing his hand down to either feint or throw the left kick. It wasn't a "lucky punch" in the sense of it being a Hail Mary, but it was very much a stars-aligning moment for Randleman.

Mirko's style as well for me was one which was fundamentally quite risky, he would spend a lot of time in the danger zone right infront of people and bank on his movement and counters to get the best of them. He would not generally look to pick away from long range disrupting people with lighter strikes to set up bigger shots he would only look for the bigger shots, even his jabs and lowkicks were thrown with serious power. That meant he was in harms way a lot depending on showing high level skill to win, he rarely played it safe.

Yep, he relied a lot on his speed and reflexes. In fights like against Magomedov, Wanderlei, and even Eddie Sanchez, he always stays tight and in range and just banks on being able to move out of the way and avoid the bombs. And he always did manage to do that, but just like how Chuck relied on his chin, only to end up losing later when he couldn't take a punch anymore but also couldn't adapt to fight without taking punches, when Cro Cop started getting slower and slower, he started getting hit more and more, as evidenced by fights with people like JDS and Pat Barry later in his career. He still gave great showings considering his age, mileage, injuries, etc., but you saw how much less effective he was without that crazy speed that he benefited from for so much of his career.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Yup. Randleman, too, had the perfect gameplan, playing to his wrestling strengths and having Cro Cop thinking TD before uncorking that monster left hook from Hell. To Randleman's credit, he did have great hand speed and power - not only did he wobble Randy in their UFC fight, but he blew up Ninja's face in PRIDE as well - but the timing of that left hook right at the exact moment that Cro Cop was bringing his hand down to either feint or throw the left kick. It wasn't a "lucky punch" in the sense of it being a Hail Mary, but it was very much a stars-aligning moment for Randleman.

Which really for me puts it into question as a clear mark of Gonzaga being superior, like Randleman he had the potential to threaten anyone but like Randleman he often threw fights away. In Mirko's case he shows that hunting down and destroying people with kicks wasnt some one off fluke it was a repeatable skill.

Yep, he relied a lot on his speed and reflexes. In fights like against Magomedov, Wanderlei, and even Eddie Sanchez, he always stays tight and in range and just banks on being able to move out of the way and avoid the bombs. And he always did manage to do that, but just like how Chuck relied on his chin, only to end up losing later when he couldn't take a punch anymore but also couldn't adapt to fight without taking punches, when Cro Cop started getting slower and slower, he started getting hit more and more, as evidenced by fights with people like JDS and Pat Barry later in his career. He still gave great showings considering his age, mileage, injuries, etc., but you saw how much less effective he was without that crazy speed that he benefited from for so much of his career.

Really you watch latter UFC run Crocop and he's not even fighting like Pride Crocop anymore, he barely throws the LHK and Mid kick because he doesnt have the speed to land them anymore and theres far less laterial movement because again he doesnt have the speed for it, he tended to slowly beat down opponents with boxing and latter on with elbows and knees.

Again I think its amusing "lack of roids" gets brought up when Mirko by the end of his career was probably carrying 20-30lbs more muscle than he was at the start, during his peak he didnt really need that much muscle because he could generate power via speed.

 

[Bullitt68]

Which really for me puts it into question as a clear mark of Gonzaga being superior, like Randleman he had the potential to threaten anyone but like Randleman he often threw fights away. In Mirko's case he shows that hunting down and destroying people with kicks wasnt some one off fluke it was a repeatable skill.

Yeah, they're both depressing in the sense that they were, or could've been, so much better than they showed. Randleman with his physical gifts should've been the most dominant champ of his era - and he could've picked whether he wanted to dominate HW or LHW - but he went so long without training off of his back or learning basic BJJ and he never really integrated his striking - which developed along the way and which came with tremendous punching power - with his wrestling - which was top-notch and explosive but often telegraphed without striking to set up the shots. Gonzaga, meanwhile, just never seemed to get up for a fight again the way that he did for Cro Cop that night in 2007.

Really you watch latter UFC run Crocop and he's not even fighting like Pride Crocop anymore, he barely throws the LHK and Mid kick because he doesnt have the speed to land them anymore and theres far less laterial movement because again he doesnt have the speed for it, he tended to slowly beat down opponents with boxing and latter on with elbows and knees.

Yep. It's also something you see a lot with older fighters, they just can't pull the trigger anymore. Cro Cop spent so much time in his later fights just walking at people, circling, etc., without actually throwing anything. He used to constantly throw that straight left, he'd fire off body kicks and high kicks. But once he started to slow down, and then once he started having knee problems, he just couldn't move the way that he used to, he couldn't explode in with the left hand or cut angles in the pocket. And again, based on the style that he'd cultivated which relied so much on his speed, when that was gone he just wasn't as effective.

Again I think its amusing "lack of roids" gets brought up when Mirko by the end of his career was probably carrying 20-30lbs more muscle than he was at the start, during his peak he didnt really need that much muscle because he could generate power via speed.

True again, he started to lose the speed advantage so he opted to put on some extra mass to make up for his lost speed with extra strength. But that hindered him more than it helped him.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

True again, he started to lose the speed advantage so he opted to put on some extra mass to make up for his lost speed with extra strength. But that hindered him more than it helped him.

It did argeubly help him in grappler matches I spose and thats one area he remained quite strong in, its really what most of his latter career run was based on beating people like Akanbari and Mo.

 

[Bullitt68]

It did argeubly help him in grappler matches I spose and thats one area he remained quite strong in, its really what most of his latter career run was based on beating people like Akanbari and Mo.

Good point. I meant specifically that it didn't help his striking, but you're right that it at least helped him continue to sprawl-and-brawl absent his lightning fast sprawl.