Cormier never fought a top MMA wrestler

koquerelle said:
Cormier has officially made it.
"Fedor never fought in the UFC."
"chuck never fought a striker."
etc...
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AS never fought an elite striker, But Serra made Gsp tap to strikes, Bj was out of shape, People dont stand in front of Nick and trade punches.

You're 100% right.
 
Peteyandjia said:
"Those who cannot understand how to put their thoughts on ice should not enter into the heat of debate." - Nietzsche

Nothing against you personally, so you ought not get really frustrated. I think DC, Barnett, and Jones are all elite MMA wrestlers. You disagree with that, but you haven't convinced me by nitpicking records. Nor have I convinced you by defending prime Crocop, or pointing out that Gus won the wrestling exchanges with Jones (who is still elite). I think we can both find a way to sleep tonight.
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You think that Barnett is an elite wrestler and I don't. But unlike you I have substantiated my opinion with examples and facts. You have not substantiate your opinion that he is an elite wrestler with anything.
 
I'm surprised how you didn't mention he struggled to take down Mir.
 
I've bookmarked this thread for when DC and Jones fight. Regardless of who wins and how the wrestling in the fight goes, this will be a good thread to come back to for some extended discussion.
 
JamesBJJ said:
No, he really isn't. His submissions are top-notch, his wrestling leaves a lot to be desired to be considered a top MMA wrestler.


Hendo is an elite wrestler on paper, being in the greco olympics 18 years ago. But he is not, and never has been, an elite wrestler in MMA fights, neither offensively and especially not defensively.
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Did you ever watch his RINGS fights? He seriously must have 40-50 takedowns in those 5 fights. Including many against Big Nog and Sobral-who was a very good amateur wrestler around that time.

Or fights like against Yuki Kondo? Dan was outstruck, his wrestling came in handy big time. Launching Kondo right on his head at the end of the fight probably won it for him.

Ever since he blew his wad against Shields in the first round, people have been saying this. Ignoring what he did in all the matches surrounding it....stuffing all but one of Palhares takedowns, stuffing Rashad, taking down a notoriously good TDD Feijao etc. C'mon son.

20110306103504_IMG_3539.JPG
 
DC fights a top UFC wrestler every day. His name is Cain Velasquez. In fact he is the top UFC wrestler.
 
JamesBJJ said:
You think that Barnett is an elite wrestler and I don't. But unlike you I have substantiated my opinion with examples and facts. You have not substantiate your opinion that he is an elite wrestler with anything.
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Barnett's wrestling in MMA speaks for itself, then again so does DC's and you don't seem to see that either. Oh well.
 
JamesBJJ said:
Not they wouldn't be. Especially not Hamill. He has 91% takedown defense on fightmetric and I don't recall anyone taking him down besides Jon Jones. He took Tito down at will. Hamill is a much better MMA wrestler than Barnett, Henderson and Monson (at the time Cormier faced him).
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hamill is better than Barnett and Henderson. now I know you are retarded.
 
ReadWrite said:
DC fights a top UFC wrestler every day. His name is Cain Velasquez. In fact he is the top UFC wrestler.
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This quote has weight. In my uneducated non-wresting English opinion, more weight that TS full 1st post.

Styles make fights away, not MMA opponent analysis. "Jones fought such and such". Well, that's good for debate but not real life factual outcome. DC has exceptional striking patterns and fighter IQ. His wrestling and/or striking independently mean very little.
 
lol Man you guys are getting trolled big time. TS just copied Donny7's how to troll guide step by step and he has you guys running in circles. This thread might even get 20 pages.
 
HOLA said:
Did you ever watch his RINGS fights? He seriously must have 40-50 takedowns in those 5 fights. Including many against Big Nog and Sobral-who was a very good amateur wrestler around that time.

Or fights like against Yuki Kondo? Dan was outstruck, his wrestling came in handy big time. Launching Kondo right on his head at the end of the fight probably won it for him.

Ever since he blew his wad against Shields in the first round, people have been saying this. Ignoring what he did in all the matches surrounding it....stuffing all but one of Palhares takedowns, stuffing Rashad, taking down a notoriously good TDD Feijao etc. C'mon son.

20110306103504_IMG_3539.JPG
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I have been saying this years before Dan's fight with Shields,

Dan has been repeatedly taken down by Kondo, Bustamante, Ninja, Wanderlei, Shogun, Machida, Nog. Even Anderson Silva took him down. These are all non-wrestlers, BJJers, strikers, taking him down.

Dan can have his moments and score a solid takedown, showing his Greco roots, but his takedown defense is simply not good enough to consider him an elite MMA wrestler.
 
I see what you mean and god bless you for stating that fact. Some of these idiots know nothing about MMA. They think Ben Askren is the best MMA wrestler in the world, despite him barely eking it out against the only decent (more like mediocre) MMA wrestler he faced - Jay Hieron. Some of the fools even banked on him dominating the GOAT MMA wrestler GSP, cause he has no credentials. It's sickening.

However, I can tell you that Cormier passes the eye test in MMA wrestling. His canceled fight against the excellent Rashad would have told us for sure.
 
Daniel has fought plenty of great wrestlers. Tony Johnson was a really good wrestler. Patrick Cummins was a great wrestler. Roy Nelson is a good wrestler. Josh Barnett is a great all around grappler. Jeff Monson is a great grappler. Those are just people I know from looking at his record.... Jon Jones is a Juco national champ, I my self am a D1 heavyweight wrestler and the difference between a Juco national champ and a top 20 D1 guy is huge. I would say a top 20-30 ranked D1 wrestler would beat a Juco national champ 9 out of 10 times..... DC is an animal, he had a stellar college career and more over performed great internationally. He would take a dump on Jon in a wrestling match, and would certainly outwrestle him in the cage. "MMA wrestling" as people like to call it is just silly. There is no such thing as good or bad mma wrestlers, there are just wrestlers who are good at fighting and some who are not as good. They are different sports. DC happens to be a great wrestler and fighter. There is no doubt he will out wrestle Jon Jones.
 
JamesBJJ said:
I have been saying this years before Dan's fight with Shields,

Dan has been repeatedly taken down by Kondo, Bustamante, Ninja, Wanderlei, Shogun, Machida, Nog. Even Anderson Silva took him down. These are all non-wrestlers, BJJers, strikers, taking him down.

Dan can have his moments and score a solid takedown, showing his Greco roots, but his takedown defense is simply not good enough to consider him an elite MMA wrestler.
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TDD is not the end all be all of wrestling as you are trying to show. Henderson is one of those big power punching wrestlers who give up defense who throw and try to land big shoots. Its the fact besides Shogun I ( which when he couldnt get up was cause he was gassed), Shields fight ( same as Shogun I) and the AS fight ( where he was rocked then Silva took his back ), that even when he was taking down he was never fully dominated the way DC did. Bisping ( who has good "statically" UFC wrestling) got laughed at by Hendo when he tried to grapple with him.
 
theincognito said:
I see what you mean and god bless you for stating that fact. Some of these idiots know nothing about MMA. They think Ben Askren is the best MMA wrestler in the world, despite him barely eking it out against the only decent (more like mediocre) MMA wrestler he faced - Jay Hieron. Some of the fools even banked on him dominating the GOAT MMA wrestler GSP, cause he has no credentials. It's sickening.

However, I can tell you that Cormier passes the eye test in MMA wrestling. His canceled fight against the excellent Rashad would have told us for sure.
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Hieron missed All-American status by one match his junior year. Most of the All-Americans were seniors. He had a very strong shot at the national title his senior year, but was kicked off the team for drugs. He also was a great at grappling in MMA. He is not mediocre.
 
I think it's more important what his contemporaries say, an they all say DC is an excellent wrestler.
 
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