Cormier never fought a top MMA wrestler

[Kevin Rudd]

Pat Cummins was no joke, he made DC cry in training once. I saw it on the UFC countdown.

 

[Rubberman1]

he Wrestles Cain Velasquez every day in training

 

[JamesBJJ]

Which wrestlers does he need to beat?

Any of the wrestlers I mentioned Jones fighting and beating, apart from maybe Sonnen who comes from 185 and sometimes has questionable takedown defense, would be a massive improvement over the current wrestlers Cormier has faced.

 

[Peteyandjia]

No, he really isn't. His submissions are top-notch, his wrestling leaves a lot to be desired to be considered a top MMA wrestler.


Hendo is an elite wrestler on paper, being in the greco olympics 18 years ago. But he is not, and never has been, an elite wrestler in MMA fights, neither offensively and especially not defensively.

Yeah you're right, people walk through Josh Barnett & Hendo all the time with wrestling. My bad.

 

[7437]

Any of the wrestlers I mentioned Jones fighting and beating, apart from maybe Sonnen who comes from 185 and sometimes has questionable takedown defense, would be a massive improvement over the current wrestlers Cormier has faced.

matyushenko and hamil would be massive steps down.

 

[Joey Sangfroid]

Funny. I was watching JJ vs Jake O'Brien the other day on fight pass. JJ never attempted a takedown once as Jake was bigger than JJ with his strong wrestling credentials. JJ struggled a bit but finished him in the third while a rookie Cain beat the snot out of Jake. What does this mean? Prolly nothing lol

 

[ThunderStruck]

He trains with 240 pounds Cain Velasquez every days so im pretty sure he is by far the best wreslter at 205.

 

[Crylo]

Cormier never fought a top MMA wrestler

Cool story bro.

 

[JamesBJJ]

Yeah you're right, people walk through Josh Barnett & Hendo all the time with wrestling. My bad.

How did you like Crocop taking Barnett down in their second fight, passing his guard, mounting him, and controlling him on the ground until the end of the round? Or controlling on the ground and pounding him until the poke stoppage in their third fight? Some elite wrestler, getting handily outwrestled by a kickboxer. Twice. His takedown defense percentage is elite 54% too..

And the list of BJJers and other non-wrestlers taking down and/or outwrestling Henderson is too long to do it from my head.. but I will try if you insist (I already mentioned several, which you completely ignored it, as you did my examples for Barnett).

 

[JamesBJJ]

He trains with 240 pounds Cain Velasquez every days so im pretty sure he is by far the best wreslter at 205.

Thanks for being the fifth person to mention that. And guess what? He still has not faced any elite wrestler in an actual MMA fight, which was the point of my original post. Do you care to address that point?

 

[Philosophy X]

I think everybody can see by now that Cormier has some of if not the best wrestling in MMA at the upper weight classes. His wrestling ability speaks for itself.

 

[Crylo]

I think everybody can see by now that Cormier has some of if not the best wrestling in MMA at the upper weight classes. His wrestling ability speaks for itself.

Some people legitimately can't. Not everyone has common sense and logic.

 

[vry pwrful]

It's quite clear that DC's wrestling has translated very well into MMA if you've watched him fight.

Do you just look at the result of the fights and not what happens?

 

[Peteyandjia]

How did you like Crocop taking Barnett down in their second fight, passing his guard, mounting him, and controlling him on the ground until the end of the round? Or controlling on the ground and pounding him until the poke stoppage in their third fight? Some elite wrestler, getting handily outwrestled by a kickboxer. Twice. His takedown defense percentage is elite 54% too..

And the list of BJJers and other non-wrestlers taking down and/or outwrestling Henderson is too long to do it from my head.. but I will try if you insist (I already mentioned several, which you completely ignored it, as you did my examples for Barnett).

Yeah that prime Crocop, who was training all the time with Werdum, what a bum. How did Barnett lose to a guy like that. Clearly that means he can't wrestle.

 

[oaklandr8ersfan]

For an MMA forum there is so much fighter hatred. You'd think half of you didn't even like the sport smh..Kinda sad..

 

[JamesBJJ]

matyushenko and hamil would be massive steps down.

Not they wouldn't be. Especially not Hamill. He has 91% takedown defense on fightmetric and I don't recall anyone taking him down besides Jon Jones. He took Tito down at will. Hamill is a much better MMA wrestler than Barnett, Henderson and Monson (at the time Cormier faced him).

 

[xelad1]

Your points about the level of comp he has faced are valid. However, people are still able to make deductions about his level of wrestling based on his credentials, how he has ragdolled people (and yes, tossing around the people he has tossed around WITH EASE is impressive, regardless of their status as "elite MMA wrestlers") and who he trains with.

I don't seek to assert that DC is an MMA "wrestling god", however he rose through the HW ranks quite handily, dispatched of a top 10 LHW, and relies extensively on his wrestling.

It isn't a stretch to say that DC is pretty damn good at wrestling in an MMA context.

 

[JamesBJJ]

Yeah that prime Crocop, who was training all the time with Werdum, what a bum. How did Barnett lose to a guy like that. Clearly that means he can't wrestle.

So training with a BJJ stylist, who is known for less than stellar takedowns (to put it mildly) somehow excuses Barnett getting outwrestled by a kickboxer twice?

The issue is not losing to Crocop, who was a great fighter. The issue is Barnett, a supposedly elite MMA wrestler, getting outwrestled and completely controlled and dominated on the ground by a kickboxer who was never known for offensive wrestling and grappling.

 

[JamesBJJ]

Your points about the level of comp he has faced are valid. However, people are still able to make deductions about his level of wrestling based on his credentials, how he has ragdolled people (and yes, tossing around the people he has tossed around WITH EASE is impressive, regardless of their status as "elite MMA wrestlers") and who he trains with.

I don't seek to assert that DC is an MMA "wrestling god", however he rose through the HW ranks quite handily, dispatched of a top 10 LHW, and relies extensively on his wrestling.

It isn't a stretch to say that DC is pretty damn good at wrestling in an MMA context.

Yes, Cormier is a damn good wrestler. But as of now Jones is a more proven wrestler in an MMA context. He has faced and outwrestled much better wrestlers than Cormier.

 

[Peteyandjia]

So training with a BJJ stylist, who is known for less than stellar takedowns (to put it mildly) somehow excuses Barnett getting outwrestled by a kickboxer twice?

The issue is not losing to Crocop, who was a great fighter. The issue is Barnett, a supposedly elite MMA wrestler, getting outwrestled and completely controlled and dominated on the ground by a kickboxer who was never known for offensive wrestling and grappling.

Jon Jones was taken down by Gustafsson, "a kickboxer".

I guess that means Jones is not a top MMA wrestler huh.