Cormier never fought a top MMA wrestler

[Meathead Jock]

Give me a list of people at LHW and HW that you would consider to be top MMA wrestlers. DC is legit, the sooner you accept it the less painful the realization will be.

 

[Machida11]

Not a DC fan, but nobody will test his wrestling.

 

[Glumberjack]

Ryan Bader and Matt Hamill are better MMA wrestlers than Josh Barnett? Get out of the institution much?

 

[HIMBOB]

Jones has never fought anyone as short as Cormier.


Cormier will almost certainly out wrestle him, but that doesn't mean he beats him.

 

[hoyle1911]

MMAth strikes again. Bones fought a tougher schedule, therefore his wrestling is greater than DC. Oh, okay.

DC is the biggest threat to Bones thus far. If he indeed can grapple him the way he did his other opponents, he has a legit shot at winning. Look at the actual technique. Bones mainly uses his wrestling defensively to strike, or use it for clinch work and manipulating the shoulders with Greco. DC does the clinch work, plus high crotches much larger men than himself and Bones, as well as trips and going for singles/doubles. He is the more accomplished wrestler, and I'm not talking about the Olympics, I'm talking about MMA.

Bones relies heavily on his striking at range (plus eye pokes, let's face it) to break his opponent down over time. DC does it by disrupting his opponent with grappling and hurting them standing or in side control on the ground. Totally different grappling ability.

 

[theincognito]

Hieron missed All-American status by one match his junior year. Most of the All-Americans were seniors. He had a very strong shot at the national title his senior year, but was kicked off the team for drugs. He also was a great at grappling in MMA. He is not mediocre.

I'm asleep tho. All you do is point out irrelevant credentials, ignoring the fact he got manhandled by non wrestlers various times.

 

[JayElectra]

Jones has never fought anyone as short as Cormier.


Cormier will almost certainly out wrestle him, but that doesn't mean he beats him.

I've been one of Cormier's most vocal fans and have picked him over Jones for a long time, but I really don't see Cormier simply dominating Jones in the wrestling like many are now predicting. It's a combination of DC's abilities along with his general style that will cause Jones all types of problems. I can see Cormier struggling a lot to get Jones down or keep him there, but even if Cormier can't take Jones down, he can still beat him.

 

[JayElectra]

Pat Cummins was no joke, he made DC cry in training once. I saw it on the UFC countdown.

Cummins is arguably the second best credentialed wrestler 205+ in the UFC. He's proven nothing in MMA, but his wrestling background wasn't made up, he was a beast. Of course, Cormier was his better in wrestling, and it wasn't even close in MMA.

 

[JamesBJJ]

Daniel has fought plenty of great wrestlers. Tony Johnson was a really good wrestler. Patrick Cummins was a great wrestler. Roy Nelson is a good wrestler. Josh Barnett is a great all around grappler. Jeff Monson is a great grappler. Those are just people I know from looking at his record....

You say Daniel has fought plenty of great wrestlers in MMA. Then you mention a single great collegiate wrestler who was extremely inexperienced in MMA and who got knocked out in the first minute of the fight.

Jon Jones is a Juco national champ, I my self am a D1 heavyweight wrestler and the difference between a Juco national champ and a top 20 D1 guy is huge. I would say a top 20-30 ranked D1 wrestler would beat a Juco national champ 9 out of 10 times..... DC is an animal, he had a stellar college career and more over performed great internationally. He would take a dump on Jon in a wrestling match, and would certainly outwrestle him in the cage. "MMA wrestling" as people like to call it is just silly. There is no such thing as good or bad mma wrestlers, there are just wrestlers who are good at fighting and some who are not as good. They are different sports. DC happens to be a great wrestler and fighter. There is no doubt he will out wrestle Jon Jones.

There is no such thing as MMA wrestling? Despite the additional variables such as cage, different stance, despite the striking, setting up takedowns with strikes, defending takedowns while throwing strikes, different distance, different ground rules and goals, different scoring?

I won't claim that they are completely different, obviously a large part of wrestling translates to MMA. But they are different enough that you can't be "certain" that someone would win a wrestling portion of MMA just because he has a better amateur wrestling record. What was GSP's amateur record?

 

[skombolis]

Wrestling with Cain in practice when Cain isn't trying to beat on you is obviously not the same as a fight

Cormier is a great wrestler. I don't think that should be in dispute. But I also don't buy into the idea that training with Cain somehow makes them equals because they train hard and in certain areas they match up well in training

DC is a beast. He also seems to be a nice guy. I have only just recently gone from basically hating Jones to not minding him. I think there are two things that are making it hard to get behind him:

1) So many of his fans have relegated him to superhuman status. That isn't his fault but just being honest, it kind of makes me want to see him lose just so I don't have to keep hearing it.

2) Even when I hated Jones, I have never questioned how good he is. To me, DC could be the 3rd best guy behind Cain and Jones and amazing as that is, it still doesn't get him by Jones

But its one of those things I don't care if I'm wrong about. If he takes out Jones I have no problem giving props to his fans that have been calling it from the beginning. I just hope its not like another Diaz thing where every other thread is about him. I know its not exactly rationale to have fans of certain fighters color your views on them. But I doubt I'm alone in this. I just will be glad when the fight happens and we don't have to speculate any more. Plus it should be a really good fight

 

[betyourlife82]

Sometimes, and I'm just saying, it's OK to admit that you're having problems in life, and use sherdog as an outlet to create threads people will strongly disagree with, just to argue nonsense that make you look foolish. It's OK, that's what sherdog is for. It's therapy for the everyday struggles we all go through. In fact, this post is specifically designed for you to attack and make some negative comment so you will feel better about yourself, so that others in your 'real' life, will not have to suffer the same fate as those who have to read these threads. We're all just pawns in a far greater and complex master plan, and you fit right in. So, thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for being part of such a horrible and twisted plot against humanity. Sherdog has clearly achieved it's goal.

Again, I'm only trying to help.

 

[Ever Watchful]

You're right that he hasn't faced and beaten the same caliber of wrestlers as Jones, but Cormier is an elite MMA wrestler nonetheless. He will prove it to you in time, it's inevitable.

I believe he is elite based on watching his performance in various fights, and another thing about having truly good wrestling in MMA is being able to set up the TD with strikes, which Cormier is getting pretty good at. So his Olympic level wrestling combined with his good and ever improving striking will only help his MMA wrestling be elite.

Jones hasn't faced and outwrestled/dominated guys as big as the ones that Cormier has faced. So there is that, lol.

 

[pick999]

 

[Boonedoggle]

You had to go back 12 years to argue your point, citing a fight you have obviously never even watched.

And the crux of your argument lays on a match that happened 8 years ago. Pretty weak eh?

 

[OoopsaDaisey]

Oh ok

Lolololol this. You think Daniel Cormier's wrestling is untested? Not sure if srs. "I'm not sure Ronda Rousey's Judo is tested in MMA Judo". There's a difference between "untested" and "the best".

 

[weaselGRM]

I thought about going in to this but then I realised where it might lead and it made me sick.
He IS THE top mma wrestler.

 

[Irenaeus]

Not top wrestlers, no but far bigger ones, and he's done it dominantly. If you look at what he actually does - merging strikes and takedowns, and beautiful chain wrestling, I think it's pretty clear that he's among the best wrestlers for MMA in MMA today, regardless of credentials. Cormier flows.

A fight between him and Jones will be very dependent on who controls the range, and if Cormier is able to grip fight without exposing himself to Jones' offensive arsenal from the weird trapping range he fought Glover at.

All aspects of the matchup is interesting, though.

 

[DysDave]

Ok, so Hendo might not be a dominant wrestler- but to act like his wrestling sucks is flat out DUMB. DC didn't just beat him, he crushed him- and I've never seen anyone simply control Hendo that easily. He's been beat up, out-struck, even out-wrestled- but he looked like a child against DC. That's how good he is.

The comparison to Rousey is a good one- Rousey is quite obviously the best grappler in WMMA, regardless of her competition level- because of how she's beaten everyone. Cormier is obviously the best wrestler in MMA- he's thrown around guys bigger than him like it was a joke. Cain might (although it's never been proven) be a better overall fighter than DC, but DC would outwrestle anyone on the roster currently in MMA.

Just use your eyes ffs. Jones is good, and he could definitely beat them, but I don't see him launching Barnett and Hendo around and dominating them as completely as DC did.

 

[Factory]

I agree TS

I would love to see him vs Rashad

 

[NikFights**]

Ok, so Hendo might not be a dominant wrestler- but to act like his wrestling sucks is flat out DUMB. DC didn't just beat him, he crushed him- and I've never seen anyone simply control Hendo that easily. He's been beat up, out-struck, even out-wrestled- but he looked like a child against DC. That's how good he is.

The comparison to Rousey is a good one- Rousey is quite obviously the best grappler in WMMA, regardless of her competition level- because of how she's beaten everyone. Cormier is obviously the best wrestler in MMA- he's thrown around guys bigger than him like it was a joke. Cain might (although it's never been proven) be a better overall fighter than DC, but DC would outwrestle anyone on the roster currently in MMA.

Just use your eyes ffs. Jones is good, and he could definitely beat them, but I don't see him launching Barnett and Hendo around and dominating them as completely as DC did.

I must say BRAVO good sir, you have the combined rarities of common sense and decency.

Cheers