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That doesn't count, because it's Jones.
Cormier never fought a top MMA wrestler
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That doesn't count, because it's Jones.
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How about training with Cain every day?
Edit: Good to be 10th to say the same thing.
Anyway, dashing out slams like he does is really unheard of.
Edit: Good to be 10th to say the same thing.
Anyway, dashing out slams like he does is really unheard of.
Being an elite wrestler does not mean that you can't be taken down by an inferior wrestler (even Cain was taken down by Kongo).
But Barnett was not merely taken down by Crocop by surprise. He was dominated by him positionally on the ground for a considerable period of time, in two fights, and he couldn't get up in either of those fights.
Gustafsson, on the other hand, could not even completely secure the takedown against Jones. Jon got up right away.
Apples and oranges.
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Putting aside the nonsense of holding a few losses to prime Crocop against Barnett aside for a moment:
Do you think DC is an elite wrestler?
You know, it is really frustrating to argue with someone who ignores most of the things I say, constantly jumps from one point to another, and repeats the things I have already addressed.
I already answered that in this thread.
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Randy was impressed enough by Barnett's wrestling. (Note: this is beastly hw randy, not skinny old man randy).
Last edited:
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Why isn't it apples and oranges when you were making the same type of argument to discredit Hendo, etc. Fact is no one has rag dolled Hendo like that before. He may have been taken down but if you can't see the difference in what DC did, then there's no point in even discussing it.
Second, Hamill is no where near the wrestler Hendo is, and the janitor was waaay past his prime when JJ fought him. And as far as Barnatt goes, you're also ignoring the size disadvantage DC had, and he still tooled him.
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We found his alt.
Like everyone else said, Its the eye test. You can tell DC's wrestling is 100% legit and top of the food chain. Even Hamill with your silly fightmetric stats would easily get dumped on his head just like Josh and Hendo did if they clinch up with DC away from the cage. Mir would have too if the clinching didnt happen near the cage and DC fighting smart cause he wanted to make sure he got a win.
Basically what I just posted. 100% right. It's the friggen eye test. Not everything is broken down stat by stat or this translates to that or plus and minus this. Watching this guy fight and the people he has fought makes it pretty clear.
To add something, people are hung up on the takedowns and slams and throws. On top of all, its how he smothers a guy or just controlls the hell out of him and gives him no chance once he has him.
You had to go back 12 years to argue your point, citing a fight you have obviously never even watched.
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"Those who cannot understand how to put their thoughts on ice should not enter into the heat of debate." - Nietzsche
Nothing against you personally, so you ought not get really frustrated. I think DC, Barnett, and Jones are all elite MMA wrestlers. You disagree with that, but you haven't convinced me by nitpicking records. Nor have I convinced you by defending prime Crocop, or pointing out that Gus won the wrestling exchanges with Jones (who is still elite). I think we can both find a way to sleep tonight.
I am not. Henderson has been repeatedly outwrestled by non-wrestlers. Jones was momentarily taken down by a non-wrestler once, and it was the only time he was taken down in his entire career.
But I am not arguing against that point. I am arguing that Cormier has not fought elite wrestlers in MMA yet, and that Jones is a much more proven MMA wrestler. Do you disagree with either of those claims?
See my earlier post.
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cormier is undefeated, jon jones isn't.
cormier > jones
/thread
cormier > jones
/thread
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The one thing i do agree with is that Hendo is not a good MMA wrestler. Just basing it of what i've seen in his fights. I could never get that he has these amazing credentials in wrestling, he looks average whenever i see him using wrestling. I don't get why that is. He's a great fighter in other ways.
But DC didn't just outwrestle these guys, he completely dominated them. It's not that easy to take any MMA fighter down. They all train for it and try to stop the TDs. So to do it as easily as DC has tells you how good he is. And there really aren't that many elite MMA wrestlers in the top weight classes, Jones and DC are two of the few. That will be a very interesting match up.
But DC didn't just outwrestle these guys, he completely dominated them. It's not that easy to take any MMA fighter down. They all train for it and try to stop the TDs. So to do it as easily as DC has tells you how good he is. And there really aren't that many elite MMA wrestlers in the top weight classes, Jones and DC are two of the few. That will be a very interesting match up.
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Cormier has officially made it.
"Fedor never fought in the UFC."
"chuck never fought a striker."
etc...
"Fedor never fought in the UFC."
"chuck never fought a striker."
etc...
