Circling The Arguments (SCO thread v. 32)

[glenwo2]

I suspect Rodentstein was pressured into it, but I don’t believe for a second that he wasn’t aware the investigation was baseless. He probably turned on his comrades once he realized Mueller couldn’t close. That’s why McCabe tried to sink him with that 25th Amendment accusation. If Trump wanted to fire Rat Rod, he’d be gone. Trump wants him around for some reason.

BTW I don’t respect the coward republicans who blew Mueller’s cock. They are all traitors, and they all look like morons now. Too bad we can’t throw John McCain’s corpse in jail.

Good one. <Lmaoo>

 

[HereticBD]

It IS authorized, by a court, surveillance.

Yes, but if there were shady and illegal tactics used to obtain the authority, it's illegal.

You can plant evidence to get a search warrant. If they find out you planted evidence to obtain the search warrant, it's an illegal search.

So yeah, "spying", "surveillance"...it doesn't matter. What matters is the protocol and if it was followed properly.

 

[glenwo2]

I suspect Rodentstein was pressured into it, but I don’t believe for a second that he wasn’t aware the investigation was baseless. He probably turned on his comrades once he realized Mueller couldn’t close. That’s why McCabe tried to sink him with that 25th Amendment accusation. If Trump wanted to fire Rat Rod, he’d be gone. Trump wants him around for some reason.

BTW I don’t respect the coward republicans who blew Mueller’s cock. They are all traitors, and they all look like morons now. Too bad we can’t throw John McCain’s corpse in jail.

Got a shovel, laddie?

 

[glenwo2]

Nice rebuttal.

 

[andnowweknow]

Yes, but if there were shady and illegal tactics used to obtain the authority, it's illegal.

You can plant evidence to get a search warrant. If they find out you planted evidence to obtain the search warrant, it's an illegal search.

So yeah, "spying", "surveillance"...it doesn't matter. What matters is the protocol and if it was followed properly.

You're using "the universe is infinite, thus anything is possible" to justify your inference there "may" have been illegal surveillance. You're just being patently dishonest in this and citing zero evidence for your willingness to regurgitate Trump's bullshit.

Do you understand how corrosive it is to discourse when you make an argument like this? I'm not trying to be a dick (at this moment). I'm perfectly capable of noting anti Trump bullshit and separate it from my partisan political nonsense.

 

[bobgeese]

the rest is all debatable, for the masochist. It's far to nuanced, by definition, to debate it with someone who supports Trump, who has never used a nuanced argument in his life, but rather lies at every turn and has NEVER admitted he was ever wrong. You can claim victory on anything, and Trump does, regardless of accomplishment. You're claiming some achievement by circumstance and attributing it to Trump, if anything, he's accomplished things through his own error...which I guess he should get credit for.

the thing with North Korea has been an embarrassment, trying to spin (lie) that we've somehow advanced things or that Trump has done anything other than embarrass us on that matter is ridiculous. NK is the only one who got anything out of this administrations time. It's a joke to bring that up.

He has changed the discourse, which can be seen as positives in some light and negative in others. The real problem with Trump is the he's incredibly self serving and I don't even believe you think he gives two shits about the health of our country in any sense of the word. I think he allows you to think what you want to think more freely (not in the closet) and all his obvious negatives as a person and leader go by the wayside because of a few core things he happens to meet with you on.

I appreciate you dropping the wall argument. Thank you, with no smartassery on my part. He's lost the campaign promise in every way and will continue to lose it because Republicans really don't care about it either.

First off, the wall is being built. There is no debating that.


Second off, I have been wrong about 6 times here. I freely admit when I’m wrong. The thing is, I’m not wrong very often.


Lastly, how long has it been since NK fired a missile, or had threatening rhetoric?

 

[bobgeese]

all this about the use of 'spying' is aimed at stupid people to make them further skeptical of those who might investigate Trump. Bill Barr is a disingenuous liar and he wasn't confused about anything, he was purposely using the word "spying" where it had know place, and he knows it has no place in the discussion.

You are truly is tin foil hat territory.

Trumps campaign was spied on, it’s not even debatable. That is why both the AG and IG are Investigating it.

 

[HereticBD]

You're using "the universe is infinite, thus anything is possible" to justify your inference there "may" have been illegal surveillance. You're just being patently dishonest in this and citing zero evidence for your willingness to regurgitate Trump's bullshit.

Do you understand how corrosive it is to discourse when you make an argument like this? I'm not trying to be a dick (at this moment). I'm perfectly capable of noting anti Trump bullshit and separate it from my partisan political nonsense.

There is plenty of smoke to suggest the surveillance was illegal.

Quite frankly, it just sounds like you have a problem with them looking into this, to see if in fact the surveillance was illegally granted. Gee, I wonder why...

I mean, what are you worried about? If it was all above board, what's the big deal? You'll find out no "spying" occurred and that'll be that. Why are you against them just making sure? Any particular thing you're worried about them finding out?

 

[bobgeese]

It IS authorized, by a court, surveillance. It is being called "spying" to create a sense of illegality...directed at idiots who Trump wants to rile support from on the far right. It's a lie, it's all run of the mill law enforcement in reality. Nobody is spinning anything on the left, they're saying it's not "spying"...because that word has connotations you're continuing to play dumb on.

Who authorized Stefan Halper, and specifically what actions triggered the need to plant a spy?

Are you really stating it’s impossible for protocol to have been broken in dispatching him? Keep in mind how many times we know protocol has been broken already.

 

[andnowweknow]

There is plenty of smoke to suggest the surveillance was illegal.

Quite frankly, it just sounds like you have a problem with them looking into this, to see if in fact the surveillance was illegally granted. Gee, I wonder why...

I mean, what are you worried about? If it was all above board, what's the big deal? You'll find out no "spying" occurred and that'll be that. Why are you against them just making sure? Any particular thing you're worried about them finding out?

I am of the impression the IG report dealt with this...and that Rod Rosenstein was the one who signed off on much of this. The redundancy of looking into it seems very much like obfuscation. Zero evidence has been put forward, all we know is that legal surveillance was done and Trump wants it "looked into"...he could use that justification to look into literally anything. That's ridiculous.

I'm not worried about any outcome, transparency is overwhelmingly good. But this CLEARLY is coming from Trump, who we all know has zero predilection for transparency unless it suits him.

Investigate away, it seems an awful lot like a distraction.

 

[andnowweknow]

Who authorized Stefan Halper, and specifically what actions triggered the need to plant a spy?

Are you really stating it’s impossible for protocol to have been broken in dispatching him? Keep in mind how many times we know protocol has been broken already.

Bob, I'm having a hard time with this coming from you. You have a problem with protocol being broken now?

 

[bobgeese]

Bob, I'm having a hard time with this coming from you. You have a problem with protocol being broken now?

Duck noted.

 

[SBJJ]

It IS authorized, by a court, surveillance. It is being called "spying" to create a sense of illegality...directed at idiots who Trump wants to rile support from on the far right. It's a lie, it's all run of the mill law enforcement in reality. Nobody is spinning anything on the left, they're saying it's not "spying"...because that word has connotations you're continuing to play dumb on.

What Judge or court ordered a mole be placed inside the Administration?

 

[andnowweknow]

You are truly is tin foil hat territory.

Trumps campaign was spied on, it’s not even debatable. That is why both the AG and IG are Investigating it.

Show me some evidence the surveillance was illegal. Not speculation, evidence. We can speculate on more interesting things that aren't about politics. Otherwise, all you're doing is parsing words while enjoying the effect of the insinuation of illegality. I get it's a political play to idiots, and that you're not one of them.

 

[Strychnine]

The issue with that specific term for those on the left is that it forces them to acknowledge former President Obama authorized the use of our national security apparatus to do something as petty as spy on his political opposition.

It was President Obama's 2nd term. He had no competition.

He did however had an obligation to his oath of office to see if there were any shenanigans going on under his purview. But of course it was all for naught because people in the Trump camp have plead guilty, are serving time, and making deals with law enforcement..

Yeah.. It was just a witch hunt... Yeah...

 

[andnowweknow]

What Judge or court ordered a mole be placed inside the Administration?

Tell me about this one.

 

[HereticBD]

Investigate away, it seems an awful lot like a distraction.

Distraction from what? The Russia invest-...

Oh' wait, that's done. What goes around comes around. Nothing wrong with making extra sure everything was above board. Maybe a special council should be formed to get to the bottom of this. There's just a lot of smoke, ya know? A lot of crooked FBI agents...potential FISA abuses...a phony dossier...you just gotta be sure with these things. Let's make sure there's no fire. Hopefully Trump can lend them a torch or two to guide them through the darkness to help them look for that fire...

 

[Strychnine]

First off, the wall is being built. There is no debating that.


Second off, I have been wrong about 6 times here. I freely admit when I’m wrong. The thing is, I’m not wrong very often.


Lastly, how long has it been since NK fired a missile, or had threatening rhetoric?

Yesterday.

"First of all, it is necessary for the United States to stop the current way of calculation and approach us with a new way of calculation," Kim said in Pyongyang at the first meeting of the 14th session of the Supreme People's Assembly of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, KCNA reports.

"What is obvious is that if the United States sticks to the current political way of calculation, the prospects for problem solving will be dark and very dangerous."

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/12/politics/kim-jong-un-donald-trump-nuclear-talks/index.html


Unless things going "dark and dangerous" = Ice cream social in Trumpworld...

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

It was President Obama's 2nd term. He had no competition.

He did however had an obligation to his oath of office to see if there were any shenanigans going on under his purview. But of course it was all for naught because people in the Trump camp have plead guilty, are serving time, and making deals with law enforcement..

Yeah.. It was just a witch hunt... Yeah...

The argument has shifted quite suddenly from:

"Obama never spied on President Trump's campaign."

To

"Sure, Obama spied on President Trump's campaign, but he deserved it because orange man bad!"

These aren't even good excuses anymore, this is just pure political tribalism on your part.

 

[Strychnine]

The argument has shifted quite suddenly from:

"Obama never spied on President Trump's campaign."

To

"Sure, Obama spied on President Trump's campaign, but he deserved it because orange man bad!"

These aren't even good excuses anymore, this is just pure political tribalism on your part.

He didn't "Spy" on the Trump campaign. The Trump campaign was placed under investigation because of proven links/connections with a hostile foreign government.

Call it partisan hackery all you want, but there were some people doing some shady stuff with Russian help and they got nailed.

That is a fact.