International China creates world's biggest free trade zone

[D3THRONED]

So empty talk then.

Vancouver, Canada

Lmao this guy

 

[YoungBoyd]

Good for them.

 

[Islam Imamate]

China offers development aid and low interest loans to poor countries. Murica keeps on screaming debt trap yet offers no tangible competitive deals to hose countries. Either up your foreign aid game or offer more attractive deals. You sure as hell aren't going to outcompete China with the direction you're heading.

Countries are attracted to economic gains, not empty Cold War rhetorics.

I think China is evil and needs to be resisted but this is a fair point, we can't just say "China bad"

Crying about their debt trap strategy kind of falls on deaf years in the non-Western world when many countries only crawled out from under European debt traps a few decades ago(I think Haiti only paid off its debt to France in like 1947 or something like that). At least the debt accrued to China is not under duress as it was in the case of European colonialism. Not to mention that former colonial powers like France and the UK still exert massive influence on many former colonies and use things like foreign aid and trade deals to maintain the dependence of said former colonies on their former colonizers so that the latter can continue to extract resources and profits from the former.

If anything neocolonialism by the former colonial powers is partly what makes China's "debt trap" diplomacy attractive to developing countries; there's now a new global player on the world stage that you can play off the old players instead of always coming to your former master with your tail between your leg and your hands out.

 

[12ga.]

China will crsuh us easily if we (USA) don't get our act together, At this point - Most nations see our foreign policy as a disaster and see China as a better guarantor prosperity.

Some examples...of our follies...

-All the right wing juntas we supported from contras to coup in Bolivia today
-All the unmitigated disasters we caused in the ME
-Pushed Russia into China's arms giving China unlimited energy and weapons tech to dominate at least their region perhaps the world in 2025 according to RAND corp
-Chained countries to debt for life with IMF (Argentina, ukraine etc)
List goes on - but we are a laughing stock internationally let alone domestically and it didnt start with Trump - not somethin anyone wants to be part of currently. We used to have soft power, not anymore. Like all dying empires all we employ is hard power and threats.. Even Muslim nations rather work with China who runs Muslim concentration camps. China has most of the Libyan, Iraq and Iranian oil deals not us.

If we wish to survive as the global hegemon we need to immediately
Forgive all debt IMF and World bank holds.
Aid and reparation packages for war torn Regions we destroyed.
Allow self determination
Become very good friends with Russia again like in the 90s and ask them cancel all China deals
TPP - Maybe too late though since China has deals TPP counters.

Notice all soft power remedies like China employs.

 

[Seso]

Map of the 15 members
~30 % of the world population

Respect

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

so china just bought more territory?

 

[12ga.]

I think China is evil and needs to be resisted but this is a fair point, we can't just say "China bad"

Crying about their debt trap strategy kind of falls on deaf years in the non-Western world when many countries only crawled out from under European debt traps a few decades ago(I think Haiti only paid off its debt to France in like 1947 or something like that). At least the debt accrued to China is not under duress as it was in the case of European colonialism. Not to mention that former colonial powers like France and the UK still exert massive influence on many former colonies and use things like foreign aid and trade deals to maintain the dependence of said former colonies on their former colonizers so that the latter can continue to extract resources and profits from the former.

If anything neocolonialism by the former colonial powers is partly what makes China's "debt trap" diplomacy attractive to developing countries; there's now a new global player on the world stage that you can play off the old players instead of always coming to your former master with your tail between your leg and your hands out.

We do the same thing with IMF and world bank. And instead of taking a port or something for 99 years under default terms, we change leadership and force population into austerity or worse. China does a softer form not pressed by quarterly returns...

 

[Gunny]

This is fine by me. Let China’s manufacturers enjoy the competition from jungle factories.

 

[Cajun]

If US won't cough up the cash, how do you expect countries to be persuaded? Because China is making it rain right now with cheap loans.

I'm 33.

Again...you can't cough up the cash when you are paying your people and providing benefits....

 

[Cajun]

What I learn in this thread is that sherdoggers has zero knowledge on how the world work.

People like @Cajun and @ElKarlo are stuck in their own bubble. Clueless about geopolitics and how the world operates.

My own company is not allowed to do business with China... because they will buy one of what we sell... reverse engineer it and sell it for peanuts....then what is your recourse... fighting them in world court? Good luck... they are terrible imo...

 

[Ruprecht]

We do the same thing with IMF and world bank. And instead of taking a port or something for 99 years under default terms, we change leadership and force population into austerity or worse. China does a softer form not pressed by quarterly returns...

Of course development loans are more attractive for developing nations when they don't have strings attached mandating liberal economic reforms. Let alone anti-corruption measures, human rights measures and democratic change.
"Structural adjustments".

 

[12ga.]

It's not just in soft power China owns us. The people are superior at this point. Watch American Factory on Netflix. It's about a Chinese glass factory coming here. and Chinese workers come here to train their American Co-workers. Those Chinese live to work, absolute machines, 16 hour days no problem.. while we look like a bunch of slackers and crybabies working along side them...everyone wants 100K a year, smoke breaks, short working hours.

Not sure we can overcome this "everyman for himself" ethos we have.

 

[Amerikuracana]

Well they can make everything the cheapest through repressive one party state control and no workers rights. They aren’t a “free market” in terms of workers rights, so they have a comparative advantage with any place that had created a decent standard of living in must products.


So China wants free trade with the world, because they cheat at the game and since it benefits morons with money from other countries, nobody stops them.

 

[12ga.]

Well they can make everything the cheapest through repressive one party state control and no workers rights. They aren’t a “free market” in terms of workers rights, so they have a comparative advantage with any place that had created a decent standard of living in must products.


So China wants free trade with the world, because they cheat at the game and since it benefits morons with money from other countries, nobody stops them.

says here they make ~4k a month. Not bad even by western standards. Their savings is way higher than ours as well so it's not like they are hand to mouth like many here.

http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-survey.php?loc=44&loctype=1

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/23/most-americans-dont-have-the-savings-to-cover-a-1000-emergency.html

I blame this on American just being dumb. a mere $400 a month drip IRA account would leave us all millionaires by 58 @7%..Instead we buy too much home, eat out too much, and buy too many trinkets we dont need from china lol.

 

[Amerikuracana]

says here they make ~4k a month. Not bad even by western standards. Their savings is way higher than ours as well so it's not like they are hand to mouth like many here.

http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-survey.php?loc=44&loctype=1

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/23/most-americans-dont-have-the-savings-to-cover-a-1000-emergency.html

Well as soon as we decided that form of lie worker rights and mass repression was the way to “win the game” about 35 years ago, it’s been all down hill round these parts.

I’ll read the link later, but I’m sure they aren’t paying factory workers dick yet.

 

[D3THRONED]

Map of the 15 members
~30 % of the world population

Respect

What’s the population without China?

 

[Seso]

What’s the population without China?

~10% of the world population

 

[PubliusVentidius]

So then your point is ....... human rights abuses and low wages are a plus.... got it...

The US would be treated like a pariah rogue state by the rest of the world if ''human rights'' was the main factor shaping foreign relations. Endless invasions, endless bombings, endless war crimes, literally destroyed the lives of tens of millions of civilians and counting. The Human Rights issue is something that the US State Department has weaponized selectively against non US aligned countries, when it comes to the human right abuses of US allies there is radio silence and when it comes to your own human right abuses this shit happens: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54003527

 

[PubliusVentidius]

China offers development aid and low interest loans to poor countries. Murica keeps on screaming debt trap yet offers no tangible competitive deals to hose countries. Either up your foreign aid game or offer more attractive deals. You sure as hell aren't going to outcompete China with the direction you're heading.

Countries are attracted to economic gains, not empty Cold War rhetorics.

The woman here is this thread in a nutshell:

 

[Orgasmo]

Hongcouver am I rite?

Again...you can't cough up the cash when you are paying your people and providing benefits....

You keep talking about how you can't do this and that because you got rights and standards. None of that shit is relevant to countries cozying up to China. Because at current rate, China is going to keep expanding its influence unless there is a dramatic increase in Western investment and assistance to developing nation. What exactly are you doing that can make you out-compete the Chinese? If "China bad" is all you're able to offer, this fight is lost.