Opinion Can the political culture of the U.S. go back to normal again?

[JDragon]

'Normal' to be defined (maybe pre-Trump, pre-Tea Party, or even earlier).

Trump has been a reaction to what many on the right and the center apparently have perceived as going in a completely wrong direction and needing correction. Now the style and process of politics in the U.S. has been disrupted in a major way. This is largely due to Trump's way of communicating and doing things. But so far, he has had success with it (in terms of getting elected).

Will there be further populist Presidents in the future? Will the next Republican candidate after Trump (whether in 2020 or 2024) also make use of populist strategies? What about the Democrats?

 

[NoDak]

No.

 

[Stoic1]

Normal? Like a duel on the White House lawn?

 

[VivaRevolution]

'Normal' to be defined (maybe pre-Trump, pre-Tea Party, or even earlier).

Trump has been a reaction to what many on the right and the center apparently have perceived as going in a completely wrong direction and needing correction. Now the style and process of politics in the U.S. has been disrupted in a major way. This is largely due to Trump's way of communicating and doing things. But so far, he has had success with it (in terms of getting elected).

Will there be further populist Presidents in the future? Will the next Republican candidate after Trump (whether in 2020 or 2024) also make use of populist strategies? What about the Democrats?

Not only do I think we can't go back to normal, but I think we are watching a re-alignment of the constituency that makes up both parties.

The American working class is up for grabs. Wonder which party will understand that their future is up in the air right now, and whoever sells out corporate America first, and actually starts representing workers again, may lock down blue collar workers for a generation to come.

 

[bushman505]

I sure hope not.

 

[bobgeese]

Of course, history always has a way of evolving to the opposite.

Look at art for a perfect example, start with the baroque. Non stop, florid lines.
It evolved to the classical period, form and balance, restraint.
That evolved to the romantics, and so on and so on.


I suspect after trump (perhaps not right after, but a slow transition towards), we are going to get a very boring period of politics.

 

[panamaican]

This is normal. We have the U.S. because some people were som upset about government politics that they fought a war over taxes. Then a bunch of people got so upset over the politics of slavery that they tried to run away and start their own government. We should be happy that every major political disagreement isn't devolving into a gun war anymore, lol.

 

[moreorless87]

Not only do I think we can't go back to normal, but I think we are watching a re-alignment of the constituency that makes up both parties.

The American working class is up for grabs. Wonder which party will understand that their future is up in the air right now, and whoever sells out corporate America first, and actually starts representing workers again, may lock down blue collar workers for a generation to come.

Yep I would tend to agree, whats really behind so many of the "upset" political events of recent years across the western world is I think the decline of the status quo post 2008 recession. There's been a strong effort to try and carry on as if nothing happened but in reality I think your looking at an establishment that's become badly out of touch with large amounts of the population.

To some degree I think Trump is actually also the creation of the establishment, not just in the sense that he's part of it but the kind of extreme partisan politics he represents is what is desired so long as it avoids genuinely upsetting the current economic order.

 

[Fawlty]

Some factors that suggest there will be more trouble (I won't do this justice, but I'll take a quick swing at it):

• Political and institutional norms are being severely damaged (unqualified officials, obstruction, diplomacy, for instance)
• The primary grievance among Republican voters is the lessening influence and power by white people (this will only increase)
• The practice of "concision" in media (look up "chomsky concision" if unfamiliar) is still increasing
• The rise of populism on the left
• Lack of action on environmental concerns

Some factors that suggest we'll get our shit together:

• We have been through worse division as recently as the late 1960s
• Trump is an outlier in many ways (trade, lying, lack of experience/qualification for instance)
• Public opinion, including Republican opinion, does not generally agree with Republican policies very well, and is propped up by racial and other ID politics resentments (counterpart to #2 above)
• The average Democrat is still quite moderate
• In the long run, objective truth is not negotiable

I'm not optimistic, as I think media concision including social media, damage to political norms, and increasing white anxiety are very serious problems that have potential to get much worse, and not much potential to get better.

 

[Dirt Road Soldier]

The days of the political parties being opposed yet cordial are over I think. Its gonna be like this for a long time until the voters get through to them that no, we dont want to cater to the extreme on either side.

But sadly the most obnoxious and extreme voices screech the loudest, so it will take a while to get them to sit down and shut up and let the actual majority speak. So for now we are stuck with what we see now, two sides that absolutely hate each other and will do everything in their power to rig the system so the other never wins.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

It will be interesting to see how the left reacts when Trump gets another 4 years.

 

[usmctanker242]

@Dirt Road Soldier hit the nail on the head. Too many people have succumbed to the chaos and refuse to let it go. @Falsedawn made it very clear that he refuses to ever be cordial politically because of some Supreme Court seat the Republicans "stole" umpteen years ago.

The media is also getting rich by feeding us bullshit and having us at each others throats all the time. The reality is that when I speak to people IRL about politics we rarely ever end up cursing each other out, or yelling. Yet on forums people fly off the handle almost instantly and spew toxic rhetoric that makes it impossible to have any kind of rational discussion.

I have friends on both sides of the aisle and I find myself crossing the aisle on many topics...though I am generally a traditionalist and tend to lean right and even further right on some stuff. I get along with most people in life and don't feel the need to fight people on the street over different poltical views. That's how MOST Americans feel but the media will lead you to believe that the country is divided to the point of a civil war. People get nervous about that kind of shit and feel like they need to cement themselves with a particular side so they are part of a group.

Classic @Fawlty though claiming people voted for Trump simply because they're white and racist. Silly statements like that shut down any chance for a reasonable discussion.

 

[xcvbn]

It will be interesting to see how the left reacts when Trump gets another 4 years.

Idk man I'm pretty "left" and I think Trump's got a 60/40 shot. At the moment I see a lot of corporate Dems coming together saying "another 4 years of Trump ain't bad" when their alternative is a populist center-left candidate in Bernie Sanders.

The major turning point for this country will either be following a Bernie Sanders presidency or whoever becomes Trump 2.0

 

[Fawlty]

Classic @Fawlty though claiming people voted for Trump simply because they're white and racist. Silly statements like that shut down any chance for a reasonable discussion.

Oh well. As a simple matter of telling the truth, I can't not point out that racial grievance is (and has been historically) a driving factor of political division. Elephants in rooms, etc. Can't handle it? boo fuckin' hoo.

 

[usmctanker242]

Oh well. As a simple matter of telling the truth, I can't not point out that racial grievance is (and has been historically) a driving factor that causes political division. Elephants in rooms, etc. Can't handle it? boo fuckin' hoo.

Charming...as always. It's funny how the last election was between two white people, yet you claim everybody who voted against your preferred white person was a racist and voted that was specifically because of racism. LMAO Good stuff old chap.

 

[National Acrobat]

No.

And normal would be pre-9/11.

 

[lilelvis]

Oh well. As a simple matter of telling the truth, I can't not point out that racial grievance is (and has been historically) a driving factor of political division. Elephants in rooms, etc. Can't handle it? boo fuckin' hoo.

No one is denying that there is racial tension, but your perception that it is being perpetuated by white people (other than feminists) is absolutely laughable.

You should get out more.

 

[n...not crazy]

Whatever changes are ever made, they would have to be profitable. Media, lobbies, lawyers, whoever. They all love it. This is all a business, pretty much.

 

[Falsedawn]

@Dirt Road Soldier hit the nail on the head. Too many people have succumbed to the chaos and refuse to let it go. @Falsedawn made it very clear that he refuses to ever be cordial politically because of some Supreme Court seat the Republicans "stole" umpteen years ago.

The media is also getting rich by feeding us bullshit and having us at each others throats all the time. The reality is that when I speak to people IRL about politics we rarely ever end up cursing each other out, or yelling. Yet on forums people fly off the handle almost instantly and spew toxic rhetoric that makes it impossible to have any kind of rational discussion.

I have friends on both sides of the aisle and I find myself crossing the aisle on many topics...though I am generally a traditionalist and tend to lean right and even further right on some stuff. I get along with most people in life and don't feel the need to fight people on the street over different poltical views. That's how MOST Americans feel but the media will lead you to believe that the country is divided to the point of a civil war. People get nervous about that kind of shit and feel like they need to cement themselves with a particular side so they are part of a group.

Classic @Fawlty though claiming people voted for Trump simply because they're white and racist. Silly statements like that shut down any chance for a reasonable discussion.

Keep my name out of your mouth.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

I guess a lot of guys here were pretty young when Bush was president. This is nothing new for the left. They are entitled babies who have no issue throwing an 8 year temper tantrum.