Calling all Half guard players

[thugpoet]

half guard invites many different types of passing options (smash passing, footwork passing, submission-based passing), and often concedes 2/3 of whatever the top guy is wanting to do before starting your own attacks. i think most serious half guard players would tell you that's sort-of the point, but it's also the reason why I prefer to pass the half guard than play it.

agreed I enjoy passing half guard mostly because even though half is a great position a lot of people don't spend a lot of time there. Most guys try the knee cut pass which allows me to get the under hook then get to my side. If I am playing lockdown then I am using the whip up to get to my side.

I will agree that lockdown style half guard can lead to getting crushed, but knee shield doesn't have that problem.

 

[Uchi Mata]

I don't really like half guard myself. The only thing I do from there is half butterfly. On better guys, however, my half butterfly gets smashed out.

If anyone has any resources for improving half butterfly I'm all ears.

Adam Wardzinski's butterfly is played more as a half butterfly than normal BF. There are some good Youtube breakdown of what he does. You can also always play against the far leg Craig Jones style from butterfly half, doesn't have to be from normal Z guard.

 

[ijustwannasurf]

The basic Gordo/Leite sweep was the first position I ever had success with. Win or lose, I've hit a half guard sweep in 95% of my matches.

If I look at the evolution of my guard, I see comfortable, efficient technique when it's based around my half guard. When I try disparate stuff, my training isn't fun or helpful; it can feel like pointless grind.

Now, when I plan my training, I don't ask myself, "How do I deal with this situation?" I ask, "How do I use what I'm best to deal with this situation?" And what I'm best at usually comes back to half guard.

Some examples:
I added the giggler sweep to counter heavy pressure and to help me recover my underhook.
I added farside leg attacks to counter reverse sit entries or more mobile passers.
Currently I'm working on finishing from the dogfight against good wrestlers and adding in the octopus grip to deal with different backsteps and reverse sits.

 

[machomang]

The basic Gordo/Leite sweep was the first position I ever had success with. Win or lose, I've hit a half guard sweep in 95% of my matches.

If I look at the evolution of my guard, I see comfortable, efficient technique when it's based around my half guard. When I try disparate stuff, my training isn't fun or helpful; it can feel like pointless grind.

Now, when I plan my training, I don't ask myself, "How do I deal with this situation?" I ask, "How do I use what I'm best to deal with this situation?" And what I'm best at usually comes back to half guard.

Some examples:
I added the giggler sweep to counter heavy pressure and to help me recover my underhook.
I added farside leg attacks to counter reverse sit entries or more mobile passers.
Currently I'm working on finishing from the dogfight against good wrestlers and adding in the octopus grip to deal with different backsteps and reverse sits.

The only time when I can't finish the dogfight is with wrestlers who have very good whizzers. I never limp arm, but I need to incorporate that.

How are you controlling your opponents basing arm when doing the giggler sweep in no gi?

 

[Solidus Snake]

What about you all. Why did you choose half guard over other gurads?

People put me there, so I had to figure out a way to do something and not just getting crushed. At the times I took inspiration from Oli Geddes and I started to spam classic UH/rollover sweeps, and it worked pretty well for me.

Today I like more to use z-guard to get into other guards. I kinda use the underhook game as a last resort situation..

 

[asian-glow]

Adam Wardzinski's butterfly is played more as a half butterfly than normal BF. There are some good Youtube breakdown of what he does. You can also always play against the far leg Craig Jones style from butterfly half, doesn't have to be from normal Z guard.

I think you're referring to BJJ Scout's breakdown? He uses it quite well but he seems heavily reliant on the belt grip.

I suppose that's where the Craig Jones style far leg play comes in. I drilled some of his half butterfly to ashi garami entries a few weeks ago. It was torquing my knee in a funny way and the transition from half bfly to ashi garami felt heavy. I'll continue to drill it.

Thanks for the input.

 

[dmwalking]

You get passed from half guard directly a lot rather the just have it opened? This really should be happening.

I don't understand the question. When I play full guard, I get my legs passed more often than if I have a guy in half guard. I get more sweeps from half. I hope that answers your quest.

 

[Uchi Mata]

I think you're referring to BJJ Scout's breakdown? He uses it quite well but he seems heavily reliant on the belt grip.

I suppose that's where the Craig Jones style far leg play comes in. I drilled some of his half butterfly to ashi garami entries a few weeks ago. It was torquing my knee in a funny way and the transition from half bfly to ashi garami felt heavy. I'll continue to drill it.

Thanks for the input.

It shouldn't torque your knee at all if you've inverting enough. I'm not even sure how that would happen.

 

[yetanother]

I don't understand the question. When I play full guard, I get my legs passed more often than if I have a guy in half guard. I get more sweeps from half. I hope that answers your quest.

Got my words mixed up. When playing full guard usually the top guy first unlocks your closed guard, then you get a chance to play to transition to an open guard and *then* he can pass your open guard. Do people go from being in your top closed guard straight to side control?

 

[ijustwannasurf]

The only time when I can't finish the dogfight is with wrestlers who have very good whizzers. I never limp arm, but I need to incorporate that.

How are you controlling your opponents basing arm when doing the giggler sweep in no gi?

Heavy whizzers from MMA guys is my exact problem. Those guys tell me to limp arm. It does work, but then I'm in a scramble for the back. To end up in control on the back or after the sweep, I'm focusing on: turk/torque on the leg during the actual takedown from dogfight; using a shoulder roll motion to get rolling sweeps; and focusing on my underhook shoulder as the point of connection, which gives me the best feel for their base.

I try to clamp elbow to elbow on the giggler. It never works when I use an overhook. I frame their head away with my bicep, and as soon as I feel them pressure back in I aim for elbow to elbow tight against my ribs. This also allows for a quick pummel back to the underhook if I don't get the sweep; trying to extricate an overhook and then pummel in gives them ample time to recover.

 

[rmongler]

The only time when I can't finish the dogfight is with wrestlers who have very good whizzers. I never limp arm, but I need to incorporate that.

Heavy whizzers from MMA guys is my exact problem. Those guys tell me to limp arm. It does work, but then I'm in a scramble for the back. To end up in control on the back or after the sweep, I'm focusing on: turk/torque on the leg during the actual takedown from dogfight; using a shoulder roll motion to get rolling sweeps; and focusing on my underhook shoulder as the point of connection, which gives me the best feel for their base.

The limp arm is a very timing based technique; in high level wrestling more commonly successful methods used by elite practitioners to deal with strong whizzers is to pull the near leg up into a shelf, or step around into a leg ride on the far side.

 

[yetanother]

For me the biggest difference in not getting out whizzered by roided mma guys in dogfight was doing a fuckton of positional sparring from the underhook. I assume you have your underhook deep in the hip bone or grabbing pants modern style? Your shoulder gets a lot stronger from that. Even a power lifting purple belt who was attending my class who has more jacked shoulders than Gordon Ryan needed to stop me from rag dolling him with the whizzer. There are lot of cool options from the dogfight and neat tricks but having the strength not to get hurt when they crank the whizzer is crucial.

 

[dmwalking]

Got my words mixed up. When playing full guard usually the top guy first unlocks your closed guard, then you get a chance to play to transition to an open guard and *then* he can pass your open guard. Do people go from being in your top closed guard straight to side control?

Oh no. I messed my words up too. I have to open my legs to attempt attacks. That's when my faster partners pass. I'm big and slow so they pass my legs quickly. I don't really fight it though. I have the gas tank of a vespa with the engine of a Hummer and guard retention is exhausting for me. So I've just gotten good at recovering half and playing from there. I also have some sneaky stuff from bottom side. I know this is bad jiu jitsu. But I do what works for me.

 

[ijustwannasurf]

The limp arm is a very timing based technique; in high level wrestling more commonly successful methods used by elite practitioners to deal with strong whizzers is to pull the near leg up into a shelf, or step around into a leg ride on the far side.

Shelf = getting my inside leg under the leg I'm controlling?
Leg ride = stepping over and controlling both his legs and/or throwing in a farside hook?

 

[trustdoesntrust]

Interesting perspective. I’ve never felt that way. If anything I feel like I’m the one with the advantage because I put them on the defensive because I’m chaining together attacks. My closed guard gets passed way more than any of my half guards.

I think Eddie vs Royler II is a good example of what I mean. Royler had one choice: pass. Eddie has dozens of sweep options and a couple submission options. Eddie was so proficient with his lockdown that Royler was pretty much defensive the entire time and got swept multiple times.

I guess it’s all about perspective. It’s never felt like do or die. Instead I feel more like a bear trap. Now YOU gotta figure out how to get out before I impose my will.

See, I think Royler did it completely wrong: You are NOT going to knee cut through Eddie freaking Bravo's lockdown, no way not going to happen. By contrast, check out the way Nicolas Meregali dismantles Lucas Leite's halfguard with deft footwork and aggressive submission hunting to create openings. That's the formula, in my opinion:

 

[yetanother]

The limp arm from the dogfight sucks super hard. I haven't actually seen it used in a high level jiu jitsu match (seen it taught a lot tho) and if it doesn't work you can loose the dogfight while with other attacks you can just try again and again till something works.

 

[dmwalking]

For me the biggest difference in not getting out whizzered by roided mma guys in dogfight was doing a fuckton of positional sparring from the underhook. I assume you have your underhook deep in the hip bone or grabbing pants modern style? Your shoulder gets a lot stronger from that. Even a power lifting purple belt who was attending my class who has more jacked shoulders than Gordon Ryan needed to stop me from rag dolling him with the whizzer. There are lot of cool options from the dogfight and neat tricks but having the strength not to get hurt when they crank the whizzer is crucial.

Counter the whizzer with a limp arm to the back or plan b.


Limp arm


Plan B

 

[yetanother]

The limp arm is trash. I have a better way of removing the whizzer from Caios website.
With the roll under you need to do the hooking leg heel to your butt, knee torque/off balance sort of movement.

 

[yetanother]

See, I think Royler did it completely wrong: You are NOT going to knee cut through Eddie freaking Bravo's lockdown, no way not going to happen. By contrast, check out the way Nicolas Meregali dismantles Lucas Leite's halfguard with deft footwork and aggressive submission hunting to create openings. That's the formula, in my opinion:

Meregali is a lot bigger.

 

[dmwalking]

See, I think Royler did it completely wrong: You are NOT going to knee cut through Eddie freaking Bravo's lockdown, no way not going to happen. By contrast, check out the way Nicolas Meregali dismantles Lucas Leite's halfguard with deft footwork and aggressive submission hunting to create openings. That's the formula, in my opinion:

I think it was more about the sub attempts than the foot work. I also don't do coyote guard exactly like Leite. I use what 10th planet calls "perfect double unders." Basically I have my arms wrapped around the waist. Makes it hard to cross face. Makes it hard for them to pummel for their own underhook. Makes it hard to darce. From watching that vid, a lot of Leite's problems in the match could have been helped with perfect double unders. I don't even attempt coyote guard until I have my unders. Too easy to pass without the unders. And he was just leaving his whole neck out. No bueno. Perfect double unders are life.