Calling all Half guard players

[ArtemV]

I like half guard, but I generally suck at getting to my side and keeping on it, especially when getting crushed back down. It is really fun though, there are some nice sweeps and even fewer attacks from it.

 

[Uchi Mata]

I didn't choose it, I just couldn't avoid it. Everyone needs to know how to play half because as you improve and your opponents' guard passing gets better (passing generally being one of the last things to come around in peoples' games), you'll spend more time being half passed so you better have a functional half guard game. There are types of half I like now, I especially enjoy Z guard playing against the far leg ala Craig Jones, but on the whole I still mostly play it because I sometimes have no choice.

 

[machomang]

To me, the flaw of half guard (in a sense) is that, at a certain point, you have to commit yourself to accepting bad positions in order to make your game work. Not saying it doesn't work, but I've often heard the expression "if you play half guard then you need to hate your face."

I don't follow. Can you explain?

When I'm playing half guard, I'm using a knee shield and I'm on my side, framing. When the time is right, I'm going for the underhook and working a sweep. I'm not letting my opponent cross face, I'm blocking his far arm.

 

[denoaikijitsu]

I remember a old Carlson Sr saying something i think many will relate to and that is fake position no good only real position is good now there is no doubt you take what is given to you in bjj in my opinion anyways so that being said no one will fault you for making soome one else tapout in any position

 

[beat...people...up?]

To me, the flaw of half guard (in a sense) is that, at a certain point, you have to commit yourself to accepting bad positions in order to make your game work. Not saying it doesn't work, but I've often heard the expression "if you play half guard then you need to hate your face."

I'm looking forward to developing cauliflower ear, so this is a plus.

I like half guard because it offers a lot of options. I see it as a transitional position, you don't want to stay there long and get smashed. But you can quickly get to either full guard or butterfly guard, you can sweep and come up on top (top half is a great place to be, obviously, if you've cleared their knee shield), you can set up a loop choke or baseball bat choke, take the back, go deep half, get into double leg x if you want.

IDK I'm still figuring this stuff out.

 

[shunyata]

The black belts I've done serious time with were Eddie Bravo and Gokor.

Eddie is all about that half guard, and Gokor is all about that knee shield.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

I don't follow. Can you explain?

When I'm playing half guard, I'm using a knee shield and I'm on my side, framing. When the time is right, I'm going for the underhook and working a sweep. I'm not letting my opponent cross face, I'm blocking his far arm.

I'm referring more to the Lucas Leite, Bernardo Faria, Jake Mackenzie, Eddie Bravo, etc. type of do-or-die half guards that invariably end up with the half guard player being within an inch of his life before pulling off a sweep. To me, stuff like knee shield and half butterfly are something else.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

I'm looking forward to developing cauliflower ear, so this is a plus.

I like half guard because it offers a lot of options. I see it as a transitional position, you don't want to stay there long and get smashed. But you can quickly get to either full guard or butterfly guard, you can sweep and come up on top (top half is a great place to be, obviously, if you've cleared their knee shield), you can set up a loop choke or baseball bat choke, take the back, go deep half, get into double leg x if you want.

IDK I'm still figuring this stuff out.

half guard invites many different types of passing options (smash passing, footwork passing, submission-based passing), and often concedes 2/3 of whatever the top guy is wanting to do before starting your own attacks. i think most serious half guard players would tell you that's sort-of the point, but it's also the reason why I prefer to pass the half guard than play it.

 

[asian-glow]

I don't really like half guard myself. The only thing I do from there is half butterfly. On better guys, however, my half butterfly gets smashed out.

If anyone has any resources for improving half butterfly I'm all ears.

 

[tekkenfan]

In my day it was spider, and closed guard that most people where using in gi. But I always loved the direct path to the back that half guard offers. Not saying other positions don't offer this but half guard allowed me to have a mapped out plan as a rookie.

What about you all. Why did you choose half guard over other gurads?

really back then even in gi half was quite popular

 

[tekkenfan]

To me, the flaw of half guard (in a sense) is that, at a certain point, you have to commit yourself to accepting bad positions in order to make your game work. Not saying it doesn't work, but I've often heard the expression "if you play half guard then you need to hate your face."

if you arnt very good then maybe i never have issues getting smashed from half at times ill deal with some pressure but if you know what your doing i think youll be fine

 

[tekkenfan]

I chose to play half guard because I am mobile like a statue so I can't play fancy guards, basically half guard chosed me not the other way.

tbh i think you need to have great hips to play closed as well once guys get above blue they have very good base if they have a good coach and you need some good hips to hit armlocks triangles ect people seem to think closed guard is a relaxing position but not really you gotta be quite active constant movement to catch a limb

 

[dmwalking]

I'm referring more to the Lucas Leite, Bernardo Faria, Jake Mackenzie, Eddie Bravo, etc. type of do-or-die half guards that invariably end up with the half guard player being within an inch of his life before pulling off a sweep. To me, stuff like knee shield and half butterfly are something else.

Interesting perspective. I’ve never felt that way. If anything I feel like I’m the one with the advantage because I put them on the defensive because I’m chaining together attacks. My closed guard gets passed way more than any of my half guards.

I think Eddie vs Royler II is a good example of what I mean. Royler had one choice: pass. Eddie has dozens of sweep options and a couple submission options. Eddie was so proficient with his lockdown that Royler was pretty much defensive the entire time and got swept multiple times.

I guess it’s all about perspective. It’s never felt like do or die. Instead I feel more like a bear trap. Now YOU gotta figure out how to get out before I impose my will.

 

[dmwalking]

I remember a old Carlson Sr saying something i think many will relate to and that is fake position no good only real position is good now there is no doubt you take what is given to you in bjj in my opinion anyways so that being said no one will fault you for making soome one else tapout in any position

Carlson is old school. No disrespect to him but I’d bet money that a 2 year AOJ purple would tap him in his prime. The half guard game has moved past him so his opinions are based on ancient ideas. Legends can be wrong.

 

[dmwalking]

half guard invites many different types of passing options (smash passing, footwork passing, submission-based passing), and often concedes 2/3 of whatever the top guy is wanting to do before starting your own attacks. i think most serious half guard players would tell you that's sort-of the point, but it's also the reason why I prefer to pass the half guard than play it.

If you know what’s coming it’s easier to defend.

That said, I agree with your last sentence. I always prefer to be on top. But when I’m on bottom, I prefer my 20 sweep options from half over my 10 closed guard sweeps. Neither one of us are right or wrong. It’s just a matter of preference.

 

[dmwalking]

I don't really like half guard myself. The only thing I do from there is half butterfly. On better guys, however, my half butterfly gets smashed out.

If anyone has any resources for improving half butterfly I'm all ears.

Half butterfly for me is only good to enter x guard or leg lock entries. That’s my only experience. It feels waaaaay too easy to pass. I don’t feel secure there so if I ever use it, it’s for like a split second to move into something else.

 

[yetanother]

I guess it’s all about perspective. It’s never felt like do or die. Instead I feel more like a bear trap. Now YOU gotta figure out how to get out before I impose my will.

Sure if you are better at half then the people you are rolling against are at passing it you are at an advantage. It's do or die in the sense that if things go wrong they can pass to a solidified side control. In most open guards you have space to defend.

 

[yetanother]

My closed guard gets passed way more than any of my half guards..

You get passed from half guard directly a lot rather the just have it opened? This really should be happening.

 

[machomang]

I don't really like half guard myself. The only thing I do from there is half butterfly. On better guys, however, my half butterfly gets smashed out.

If anyone has any resources for improving half butterfly I'm all ears.

Check out Lucas Leite coyote guard on youtube. It's simple but effective and works in gi and no gi. If you can get the underhook, and if you underhook correctly, you're pretty much safe and can sweep the guy, even if he's smashing your head down. There's so many variations to the sweeps that you're able to counter most things.

I go from knee shield where I'm framing with my knee and arms. I'm always on my side, if they attempt to smash me down, they have to crossface me, but I'm diligent about blocking that arm with my frames. If they ARE able to smash me down, I'm staying on my side so that I'm not flattened out and still fighting for that underhook.

If the top guys is pressuring in, I'm kicking my knee shield leg through so that I can thread in my underhook arm. From there, I go to the sweep, depending on how they defend, there are a series of sweeps/counter sweeps you can go for, but a simple bodylock and driving forward usually knocks people down.

If the top player is not pressuring and posturing back, I go for a Craig Jones style ashi entry, or 411.

Then there are deep half entries depending on the top guy's far leg positioning. I think a big thing with half guard is remaining on your side and not letting your opponent get an underhook, on either side otherwise they cut off a lot of your options.

As far as your question about injuring your opponent's leg by getting that leg hooked for coyote sweep, I've never hurt anyone's knee or seen anyone get their knee hurt by it. However, there are sweeps where you are torquing that leg and if the opponent doesn't concede, he might blow out his acl, but for sweeps like that I'm going really slow and controlled. Hope that helps.

 

[thugpoet]

I always feel like I'm going to jack someones knee up when I fish for his leg like Leite does it. If they don't concede the sweep do they get their knee injured?

I've never seen it happen but it does hurt like a son of a gun if you are not expecting. I honest

I only play half guard if force there be my go to is reguarding to rdlr or open. I believe in mendes philosophy about half being crappy place for small guys vs big. Distance management being difficult

Idk. z guard/knee shield is pretty good at distance control.