Cain Velasquez vs. Jon Jones tale of the tape

[Intermedius]

Watch Jones against Shogun then watch him against Rampage, Machida, Rashad and Belfort. He wasn't that dominant against them and I think he has improved.

I have a question for you, just to get a feel at where your head is at.

Who gave the better performance, or to be more definitive , who gave the more dominant performance:

Jones vs. Machida

or

Cain vs. Kongo

Very similar adversities. I want to here your opinion.

?

 

[Fruits]

Did you read what I said? I said they are either close to or in their primes.

Reading is overrated...

 

[Someone88]

No, I didn't think you were. You appear to be one of the only sane posters in this thread.

Of course Santos would be favored over guys like Vitor and Shogun. No one in their right mind would say otherwise. Futhermore, book makers would certainly make JDS or Cain a favorite over Jones if they were to fight.

People will get up in arms like that is some kind of insult to Jones, when in reality the fact that we are even considering the possiblity is a testament to his talent.

Good points made Jones is an excellent fighter I'm just trying to say that Cain and Dos Santos are great fighters too.

"Dos Santos is better than anyone Jones has faced." That is your exact quote and that is what bothered me.

Ok well now you get me.

 

[Pterodactyl]

Shogun is pasted his prime now (or at least until he gets healthy; he's only 31), but after he beat Machida and for that fight with Jones, he was still in his prime, and Jones murdered him. Heck, against Henderson he still may have been in his prime now.

Machida and Rashad are still in their prime, and haven't lost a step. Stop making stuff up.

Belfort is pasted his prime, but he hasn't lost much from when he was in his prime.

Which of those weaklings would even be able to last a round against Jones=??? None of them. All of those guys they beat those 2 have beaten (other than each other) would lucky to be in the UFC at any other weight. Quite frankly, aside from those 2, Werdum, Overeem, and Cormier, the HW division is pathetic.

And Rashad, Machida, and Shogun could all give Velasquez and JDS a run for their money at an equal weight (well, in Shogun's case, only really at the time of his fight against Jones).

Are you unwilling to answer my question? Which of Jones' previous opponents would you favor over JDS? I am seriously curious.

 

[cable2x]

Shogun is pasted his prime now (or at least until he gets healthy; he's only 31), but after he beat Machida and for that fight with Jones, he was still in his prime, and Jones murdered him. Heck, against Henderson he still may have been in his prime now.

Machida and Rashad are still in their prime, and haven't lost a step. Stop making stuff up.

Belfort is pasted his prime, but he hasn't lost much from when he was in his prime.

Which of those weaklings would even be able to last a round against Jones=??? None of them. All of those guys they beat those 2 have beaten (other than each other) would lucky to be in the UFC at any other weight. Quite frankly, aside from those 2, Werdum, Overeem, and Cormier, the HW division is pathetic.

And Rashad, Machida, and Shogun could all give Velasquez and JDS a run for their money at an equal weight (well, in Shogun's case, only really at the time of his fight against Jones).

"Pasted" his prime?

 

[juza]

Are you unwilling to answer my question? Which of Jones' previous opponents would you favor over JDS? I am seriously curious.

ok, I will answer, at 205 maybe Machida, but you are missing the point.

 

[Someone88]

I have a question for you, just to get a feel at where your head is at.

Who gave the better performance, or to be more definitive , who gave the more dominant performance:

Jones vs. Machida

or

Cain vs. Kongo

Very similar adversities. I want to here your opinion.

?

Jones gave a better performance. Machida is a better opponent than Kongo so offcourse Jones.

Reading is overrated...

Lol what I meant is I'm not sure who out of them is close to or in their primes. Machida and Rashad are in their primes.

 

[juza]

"Pasted" his prime?

yes, shogun likes to paste his prime. machida likes to cut his prime.

 

[EmeliankoFan1]

Are you unwilling to answer my question? Which of Jones' previous opponents would you favor over JDS? I am seriously curious.

At 205

Rashad
Machida

I dont think JDS would be a belt holder at 205

JDS boxes and has heavy hands and exploitable defensive boxing. What Cain showed is that JDS cant make adjustments in fight when he is being pressed by a wrestler who can strike.

He seems to have a very low fight IQ from what we can see. He is also not wellrounded and relies on his boxing solely to win a fight.

With all the LHW's at LHW who are faster, more wellrounded, I would put alot of fighters ahead of JDS at LHW.

 

[Pterodactyl]

ok, I will answer, at 205 maybe Machida, but you are missing the point.

Bro,

I wasn't quoting you. The question was aimed at fruit.

I am interested to find that you think Machida would be a betting favorite against JDS though.

What point am I missing? No sarcasm.

 

[Pterodactyl]

At 205

Rashad
Machida

You too?

The insanity in this thread has reached levels rare even on Sherdog.

 

[juza]

Bro,

I wasn't quoting you. The question was aimed at fruit.

I am interested to find that you think Machida would be a betting favorite against JDS though.

What point am I missing? No sarcasm.

Sorry, I am too tired. Didn't even read fruit's post. So, sorry.

 

[juza]

You too?

The insanity in this thread has reached levels rare even on Sherdog.

Oh, come on now dude. WHY is this insane? please, rational answers only.

 

[Pterodactyl]

Oh, come on now dude. WHY is this insane? please, rational answers only.

Look. I am really not trying to be an asshole here. However, I cannot believe that I am being asked to rationally explain why neither Lyoto Machida or Rashad Evans would be betting favorites over Junior Dos Santos in an straight up MMA fight. This isn't a matter of being a fan, or thinking one is more skilled, or a better "P4P" fighter. Do you think Anderson Silva would also be a favorite in Vegas against Santos? The odds on a fight like this would not even be close.

Tell me, if these guys are favorites against the #2 HW in the world, and huge dogs against the champ in their own division, why do they bother fighting in the lower weight class? Both have fought at HW in the past.

Edit: I am being trolled here?

 

[EmeliankoFan1]

You too?

The insanity in this thread has reached levels rare even on Sherdog.

ROFL,

JDS is good but he relies on his boxing too much and is a bit too one dimensional.

At 205 I see a few LHW's beating him and he cant make in fight adjustments on the fly. Cain exposed JDS for what he was which was a singular striker who relied on his boxing and could not adjust in fight when his boxing was taken away.

I'm sorry but JDS is a good fighter but I dont think he is a world beater.

JDS wouldnt be the best striker at LHW either and would weigh as much as the other LHW's, I can see a few LHW's beating JDS.

At 205 I can see it happen

 

[Someone88]

ROFL, JDS is good but he relies on his boxing too much and too one dimensional.

At 205 I see alot of LHW's beating him and he cant make in fight adjustments on the fly.

JDS wouldnt be the best striker at LHW, I can see a few LHW's beating JDS.

Come on you're underrating Dos Santos here. That's just as bad as saying Jones wouldn't even be top 10 at heavyweight.

 

[bhp02]

If they fought in 6 months, would you automatically say Cain Velasquez is the bigger guy and thus would have a size advantage simply because he is a heavyweight?

So many sherdoggers assume a fighter from any weight class is automatically at a size disadvantage when they move up a class. Weird how they don't realize some fighters cut more than others, or that some fighters are just so huge at their weight class that they would still be bigger than SOME of the fighters at the next weight class.

Cain Velasquez
Height: 6'1"
Weight: 240 lbs
Reach: 77 in

Jon Jones
Height: 6'2"
Weight: 205 lbs (in cage minimum 220 lbs, if he had 6 months to get ready, he'd prob be 230-235 lbs).
Reach: 84 in

Not saying there is any need for them to fight now, but maybe mid-2014. If it happens, Jon Jones would be the bigger guy, though not necessary the better fighter.

only Anderson silva has some chance of beating Jones,,,

Jones has tremendous footwork and speed,
better than jds, Cain.

 

[EmeliankoFan1]

Come on you're underrating Dos Santos here. That's just as bad as saying Jones wouldn't even be top 10 at heavyweight.

I have no qualms if people think Jones would get beat at HW or that he would not be a top 10 HW.

I do think that JDS is a top division HW fighter but I do think a few LHW's can beat JDS.

The issue I have is JDS's fight IQ and it took it a hit when he had some adversity. He also relies on his boxing a little to much in fight which has me a bit concerned and something that Cain exploited.

I do think JDS would be a top division LHW and I think he is a very talented fighter but he needs to work on his entire game. I think JDS is as talented as Jones but he has a habit of relying on one skill which can be rendered ineffective with the right game plan and I think is an issue and was his downfall.

He also has to learn how to adjust in fight, it wasn't Cains cardio that beat JDS, it was the inability to make adjustments just because Cain had the threat of a take-down.

 

[gamedog]

jones vs silva and that`s it.Why does everyone want to make fights that no one has been asking for?

 

[theheater]

tale of the tape

height/ reach

Jones by a lot

weight

cain 240lbs

jones 230 with less body fat. and not even bulking up

Cardio

even. might be jones but cant give him the nod

striking

easily jones. he hasnt just landed bombs but has picked apart the best LHW strikers over and over. rampage, rashad, shogun, machida all got outclassed.

wrestling

cain. the question is how big or small the advantage is. jones is almost the same size cain and has the best wrestling at LHW. completely shut down bader and rashad

BJJ

easily bones. subbing machida, bader, and rampage is legit. theres no doubt bones has dangerous subs

this fight would boil down to cains strength, wrestling, and cardio. personally i think jones is a terrible match up for him. jones has the tools to neutralize cains strengths and also cause him problems in other areas

i think both JDS and overeem are tougher matchups for jones even though i think cain beats those guys (i bet on cain over jds)