Cain Velasquez vs. Jon Jones tale of the tape

[Someone88]

Outside of each, who of quality did Velasquez and JDS beat=???

A bunch of one-dimensional fighters (Mir, Cro Cop, Big Nog, Kongo, Carwin, Big Country, Lesnar) or old guys who are way passed their prime (Mir, Cro Cop, Big Nog). They are both the only legitimate competition that either of them have faced and beaten (unless you count JDS beating Werdum before he fully realized his talent).

Jones has beaten legends like Shogun, Rampage, Machida, Evans, and Belfort, all of whom are better than anyone JDS or Cain beat (other than each other). All of those 5 guys at equal weight at the day of the fight would destroy anyone JDS or Cain have ever faced (themselves aside).

And unlike everyone Cain and JDS have faced, Shogun, Machida, and Evans are all very well-rounded fighters with multiple talents.

Shogun is past his prime. Rampage, Machida, Rashad and Belfort were either close to or in their primes. Cain and Dos Santos would beat them as well.

 

[juza]

What? Santos being a favorite against anyone Jones has faced is an absolute fact. Which of his comments are you disputing here?

That the oponents Bones has faced are inferior to JDS

 

[Someone88]

I am not a Jones fan but I realy can't wait for him to fight at heavyweight and wreck everyone.

Bones destroys Cain. Velasquez has not displayed the illegal-elbows-to-the-face move, and that is what he'd need to do to take out Jon.

Here are your opinions.

 

[Someone88]

That the oponents Bones has faced are inferior to JDS

Most people think Dos Santos would beat them.

 

[juza]

Here are your opinions.

zour sarcasm level is realy high. congratulations. please, read the context.

 

[juza]

Most people think Dos Santos would beat them.

yes, tim sylvia would probably beat john dodson, but that doesn't mean he's the betterfighter.

 

[Someone88]

zour sarcasm level is realy high. congratulations. please, read the context.

I thought maybe you were trolling, but that's your opinion. I didn't respond in a condescending manner though. You started it so I'm just responding. Dos Santos being a favorite against the opponents Jones has faced is a fact.

yes, tim sylvia would probably beat john dodson, but that doesn't mean he's the betterfighter.

I wasn't talking about pound for pound though.

 

[Pterodactyl]

That the oponents Bones has faced are inferior to JDS

I must have misunderstood. What I read was that JDS would be favored to beat all of Jones' previous oppenents, which is 100% true. Several of JDS' opponents would also be favored over all of Jones's opponents.

Both men have faced a high level of competition, and trying to discount either based on this is absurd.

 

[Intermedius]

Shogun is past his prime. Rampage, Machida, Rashad and Belfort were either close to or in their primes. Cain and Dos Santos would beat them as well.

It can be argued that Jones put shogun past his prime. The ass whooping he gave shogun was very similar to what Cain gave JDS. The difference, Jones made Rua quit.

I'm not a Jones apologist either, but the facts are the facts. Shogun was as tough as JDS at one point. Jones broke him.

 

[Someone88]

I must have misunderstood. What I read was that JDS would be favored to beat all of Jones' previous oppenents, which is 100% true. Several of JDS' opponents would also be favored over all of Jones's opponents.

Both men have faced a high level of competition, and trying to discount either based on this is absurd.

I'm not trying to discredit Jones, but yes that was my point that if Dos Santos was to fight those opponents he'd be a favorite to win.

 

[juza]

I thought maybe you were trolling, but that's your opinion. I didn't respond in a condescending manner though. You started it so I'm just responding. Dos Santos being a favorite against the opponents Jones has faced is a fact.



I wasn't talking about pound for pound though.

ok then, JDS would not be a favourite against machida at 205..

 

[Someone88]

It can be argued that Jones put shogun past his prime. The ass whooping he gave shogun was very similar to what Cain gave JDS. The difference, Jones made Rua quit.

I'm not a Jones apologist either, but the facts are the facts. Shogun was as tough as JDS at one point. Jones broke him.

Watch Jones against Shogun then watch him against Rampage, Machida, Rashad and Belfort. He wasn't that dominant against them and I think he has improved.

 

[juza]

I must have misunderstood. What I read was that JDS would be favored to beat all of Jones' previous oppenents, which is 100% true. Several of JDS' opponents would also be favored over all of Jones's opponents.

Both men have faced a high level of competition, and trying to discount either based on this is absurd.

I agree 100&

 

[Someone88]

ok then, JDS would not be a favourite against machida at 205..

People here are discussing Jones coming up to heavyweight. So I'm assuming we're talking about those opponents moving up to fight Dos Santos.

 

[xelad1]

If they fought in 6 months, would you automatically say Cain Velasquez is the bigger guy and thus would have a size advantage simply because he is a heavyweight?

So many sherdoggers assume a fighter from any weight class is automatically at a size disadvantage when they move up a class. Weird how they don't realize some fighters cut more than others, or that some fighters are just so huge at their weight class that they would still be bigger than SOME of the fighters at the next weight class.

Cain Velasquez
Height: 6'1"
Weight: 240 lbs
Reach: 77 in

Jon Jones
Height: 6'2"
Weight: 205 lbs (in cage minimum 220 lbs, if he had 6 months to get ready, he'd prob be 230-235 lbs).
Reach: 84 in

Not saying there is any need for them to fight now, but maybe mid-2014. If it happens, Jon Jones would be the bigger guy, though not necessary the better fighter.

I don't think this is a good matchup for Cain on paper at all. The only bad variable would be how well Jones bulks to 230 and adjusts to fighting an opponent bigger/heavier/arguably stronger than him.

Jones' cardio could suffer, as it takes longer to adjust to putting on mass. You aren't just the same fighter "but heavier" you need some time to become comfortable with an extra 10-15 pounds.

I favor Jones in this matchup more than I do in Jones vs. JDS or Overeem.

 

[Fruits]

Shogun is past his prime. Rampage, Machida, Rashad and Belfort were either close to or in their primes. Cain and Dos Santos would beat them as well.

Shogun is pasted his prime now (or at least until he gets healthy; he's only 31), but after he beat Machida and for that fight with Jones, he was still in his prime, and Jones murdered him. Heck, against Henderson he still may have been in his prime now.

Machida and Rashad are still in their prime, and haven't lost a step. Stop making stuff up.

Belfort is pasted his prime, but he hasn't lost much from when he was in his prime.

Which of these legends that Jones has faced would you favor over Cain or JDS? Seriously.

Which of those weaklings would even be able to last a round against Jones=??? None of them. All of those guys they beat those 2 have beaten (other than each other) would lucky to be in the UFC at any other weight. Quite frankly, aside from those 2, Werdum, Overeem, and Cormier, the HW division is pathetic.

And Rashad, Machida, and Shogun could all give Velasquez and JDS a run for their money at an equal weight (well, in Shogun's case, only really at the time of his fight against Jones).

 

[Cat_Smasher**]

cain beats a 250lbs jones u meatheads

 

[Pterodactyl]

I'm not trying to discredit Jones, but yes that was my point that if Dos Santos was to fight those opponents he'd be a favorite to win.

No, I didn't think you were. You appear to be one of the only sane posters in this thread.

Of course Santos would be favored over guys like Vitor and Shogun. No one in their right mind would say otherwise. Futhermore, book makers would certainly make JDS or Cain a favorite over Jones if they were to fight.

People will get up in arms like that is some kind of insult to Jones, when in reality the fact that we are even considering the possiblity is a testament to his talent.

 

[juza]

People here are discussing Jones coming up to heavyweight. So I'm assuming we're talking about those opponents moving up to fight Dos Santos.

"Dos Santos is better than anyone Jones has faced." That is your exact quote and that is what bothered me.

 

[Someone88]

Shogun is pasted his prime now (or at least until he gets healthy; he's only 31), but after he beat Machida and for that fight with Jones, he was still in his prime, and Jones murdered him. Heck, against Henderson he still may have been in his prime now.

Machida and Rashad are still in their prime, and haven't lost a step. Stop making stuff up.

Belfort is pasted his prime, but he hasn't lost much from when he was in his prime.

Which of those weaklings would even be able to last a round against Jones=??? None of them. All of those guys they beat those 2 have beaten (other than each other) would lucky to be in the UFC at any other weight. Quite frankly, aside from those 2, Werdum, Overeem, and Cormier, the HW division is pathetic.

And Rashad, Machida, and Shogun could all give Velasquez and JDS a run for their money at an equal weight (well, in Shogun's case, only really at the time of his fight against Jones).

Did you read what I said? I said they are either close to or in their primes.