International Brexit Discussion v8: Theresa May's Final Hours

[VivaRevolution]

The EU is a trading bloc. It doesnt negotiate individually with anyone. No individual deals. Its the most basic part of the EU. Not a tough concept.

I thought protectionism doesn't work.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Ah I misunderstood, and read "before leaving the EU" you meant something even more ridiculous than what I thought. You just want the EU to abandon one of the fundamental tenets of the Union to accomodate a country that doesn't want to be a member. Right.

I don't know man. Whenever I want to have tariffs I'm always told it is a dumb idea.

Seems to me this is a defacto tariff, against anyone not in the EU.

I guess protectionism is OK sometimes.

 

[7437]

I thought protectionism doesn't work.

It doesnt matter if it works or not. Thats the law. No negotiation for trade outside the block.

 

[VivaRevolution]

It doesnt matter if it works or not. Thats the law. No negotiation for trade outside the block.

I also thought it was the law that if a deal wasn't reached by a certain date, hard brexit was triggered with no language in the law for extentions.

So apparently the law is a bit flexible.

 

[7437]

I also thought it was the law that if a deal wasn't reached by a certain date, hard brexit was triggered with no language in the law for extentions.

So apparently the law is a bit flexible.

You thought wrong. Your being wrong before doesnt change the law.

 

[Rvd Slmr]

I also thought it was the law that if a deal wasn't reached by a certain date, hard brexit was triggered with no language in the law for extentions.

So apparently the law is a bit flexible.

The process is so loose and free that the UK can fully cancel Brexit right now just by saying they changed their mind.

 

[VivaRevolution]

The process is so loose and free that the UK can fully cancel Brexit right now just by saying they changed their mind.

Man, I'm not really going to argue with Europeans about this.

I have a puddle deep understanding.

I have opinions on the EU, but they are shallow, and tainted by American politics.

 

[Rvd Slmr]

Man, I'm not really going to argue with Europeans about this.

I have a puddle deep understanding.

I have opinions on the EU, but they are shallow, and tainted by American politics.

I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining. Honestly, I was just as surprised when I realised that the UK can stop the whole process at will. That's part of the problem, the process is quite uncharted and there are lots of options and leeway that people use as negotiation tools. If there was a fixed one-way only exit process, we'd have a deal already.

 

[JDragon]

Honestly, I was just as surprised when I realised that the UK can stop the whole process at will.

I think that is an option they haven't sufficiently leveraged. And they have the Brexiteers to blame. Nobody really wants the UK to cancel Brexit at this point, therefore revoking could also be kind of a threat vs the EU (consider the election impact alone!).

 

[JDragon]

Theresa May is like the knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail who loses his arms and legs in a duel and calls it a draw, the Dutch prime minister has said.

Mark Rutte, who appeared visibly irritated last week at the failure of MPs to pass the Brexit deal, admitted feeling “angry” at the impasse in Westminster.

He said his frustration was focused on the posturing of those seeking to make party political points during a major national crisis but praised May’s “incredible” resilience in the face of repeated knock-backs in the House of Commons.

“Look, I have every respect for Theresa May,” Rutte said in an interview with the Dutch broadcaster WNLon Sunday. “She reminds me occasionally of that character from Monty Python where all the arms and legs are cut off but he then tells the opponent: ‘Let’s call it a draw.’ She’s incredible. She goes on and on. At the same time, I do not blame her, but British politics.”

 

[Liquid Smoke]

Brits should throw tea in the harbor. Worked for us...

 

[MayhemMonkey]

The turn out for the March to Leave was rather embarrassing. Farage’s face was a picture.

you are not wrong lol

 

[JDragon]

you are not wrong lol

That top one omg

 

[Billy no mates]

you are not wrong lol

It's sad in and of it's self , but especially so when you compare it to other marches that have set of from the North East .

 

[Arkain2K]

 

[JDragon]

For those of you who understand German:



Couple before divorce:

Husband wants to "freely control" his money again and have lots of fun. He is sick of the patronization and all the rules (Do this! Do that! horrible), e.g. he occasionally had to start the dishwasher.

Though he wants to keep the key to the house, so that he can come in whenever he feels like it. Also he wants to keep the car and the kids, but only when he feels like it, they are with the wife the rest of the time. He doesn't want to pay child support, though. He also does not want to stop all contact, he'd like to meet three times a week to have sex.

 

[Prutfis]

At this point I think Richie and Eddie Hitler could have done a better job.

 

[Andy Capp]

I think that is an option they haven't sufficiently leveraged. And they have the Brexiteers to blame. Nobody really wants the UK to cancel Brexit at this point, therefore revoking could also be kind of a threat vs the EU (consider the election impact alone!).

Nobody really wants to cancel? I find that extremely hard to believe.

 

[JDragon]

Nobody really wants to cancel? I find that extremely hard to believe.

Well take this as an example.



Brexit: It's enough, isn't it?

If Theresa May applies to the European Union for a postponement of her resignation without a deal at the end of the week, the Community should reject it. The EU has more important things to do than to deal with quarrelling Britons.

It’s enough. The old men have suffered long enough under foreign rule, have been enslaved by immigrant bureaucrats and have had to endure the oppressors depriving them of the fruits of their labour. But now it is enough, the hour of liberation has come, finally the righteous employees rise and take power: the office supplies are converted into weapons, one supervisor after another is killed, and then the building of the "Crimson Permanent Assurance" sets sail, the building of the insurance becomes a ship, the filing cabinets into cannons, with song and pride the mutineers sail off to teach the big corporations of the world to fear.

This scene from the prelude to "The Meaning of Life" by the British comedy ensemble Monty Python dates from 1983. Although the foreign rulers who enslaved the good British are depicted here as American corporate henchmen, the short film is regarded as a satirical metaphor for the simple employee's revolt against capitalism. But if you see it again today, you could think of it as an up-to-date documentation of the British psyche. The evil exploiters currently come from Brussels, otherwise everything seems the same: the feeling of oppression, the unconditional will to free oneself and take fate into one's own hands, up to the surreal notion of an immovable insurance building - or an entire island - could set anchor and set course, glorious adventures and a bright future. It is absurd.

A glance at the news is just as absurd. For the third time this week Theresa May wants to try to convince the British Parliament of the resignation agreement she has negotiated with the EU. The decisive factor here are the Northern Irish members of the DUP, whose approval she is currently seeking with the promise of financial injections. It is highly questionable whether it will succeed. It could well be that at the end of this week Britain is still standing exactly where it stood on the morning of 24 June 2016, the day after the Brexit referendum: the country wants to leave the EU. But it doesn't know how.

In all likelihood May will now ask the EU to extend the deadline for her resignation, irrespective of the outcome of another vote in the British Parliament: either by a few months if her deal is accepted, so that the necessary legislation can be enacted. Or, if the deal fails again, for an even longer period of time - with the bizarre effect that the British would then have to co-decide the European Parliament again, even though they don't really want to belong to it anymore.

The 27 remaining EU member states would have to agree unanimously to an extension. But if the British knock on the long-negotiated and reworked deal without their consent, the EU should reject it. As painful as it is, it should let the British go. And not because they wouldn't like to be seen in the EU.

A farce called Brexit

In fact, a European Union with a member Great Britain would be a better place. A member of the United Kingdom, of course, that is committed to the common project, that contributes in solidarity and participates constructively in a common refugee, economic and defence policy. But this EU member Britain will not exist for the foreseeable future.

The British have always been reluctant members of the EU. If one follows the debate in the British Parliament and in the British media, one can only be surprised at the continued entitlement mentality towards the European Union. The supporters of Brexit still seem to believe that all you have to do is negotiate differently and harder to retain all the benefits of the EU without being a member. Boris Johnson, May's former foreign minister and one of the driving forces behind the Brexit, is now proposing to join a very different negotiating team. It is not yet too late, Johnson claims.

In fact, it's too late. The European Union already has enough problems without the farce called Brexit. In France the yellow vests are rebelling, in Italy and Eastern Europe right-wing populists are ruling, working to undermine democracy. In the forthcoming European elections, it will be decided whether the enemies of the Community will become so strong that they can destroy the Union from within. The EU urgently needs to reform itself and find a new common ground: social, ecological, economic and military. It would be fatal if the quarreling British were to remain in the EU indefinitely, as their continued self-employment would prevent any progress. Incidentally, no second referendum would change that.

It is sad, but unfortunately unavoidable: Britain must leave. Perhaps it will return at some point.

Translated with www.deepl.com, German version at:

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/brexit-lasst-sie-ziehen-kolumne-a-1258381.html

 

[Andy Capp]

Well take this as an example.



Brexit: It's enough, isn't it?

If Theresa May applies to the European Union for a postponement of her resignation without a deal at the end of the week, the Community should reject it. The EU has more important things to do than to deal with quarrelling Britons.

It’s enough. The old men have suffered long enough under foreign rule, have been enslaved by immigrant bureaucrats and have had to endure the oppressors depriving them of the fruits of their labour. But now it is enough, the hour of liberation has come, finally the righteous employees rise and take power: the office supplies are converted into weapons, one supervisor after another is killed, and then the building of the "Crimson Permanent Assurance" sets sail, the building of the insurance becomes a ship, the filing cabinets into cannons, with song and pride the mutineers sail off to teach the big corporations of the world to fear.

This scene from the prelude to "The Meaning of Life" by the British comedy ensemble Monty Python dates from 1983. Although the foreign rulers who enslaved the good British are depicted here as American corporate henchmen, the short film is regarded as a satirical metaphor for the simple employee's revolt against capitalism. But if you see it again today, you could think of it as an up-to-date documentation of the British psyche. The evil exploiters currently come from Brussels, otherwise everything seems the same: the feeling of oppression, the unconditional will to free oneself and take fate into one's own hands, up to the surreal notion of an immovable insurance building - or an entire island - could set anchor and set course, glorious adventures and a bright future. It is absurd.

A glance at the news is just as absurd. For the third time this week Theresa May wants to try to convince the British Parliament of the resignation agreement she has negotiated with the EU. The decisive factor here are the Northern Irish members of the DUP, whose approval she is currently seeking with the promise of financial injections. It is highly questionable whether it will succeed. It could well be that at the end of this week Britain is still standing exactly where it stood on the morning of 24 June 2016, the day after the Brexit referendum: the country wants to leave the EU. But it doesn't know how.

In all likelihood May will now ask the EU to extend the deadline for her resignation, irrespective of the outcome of another vote in the British Parliament: either by a few months if her deal is accepted, so that the necessary legislation can be enacted. Or, if the deal fails again, for an even longer period of time - with the bizarre effect that the British would then have to co-decide the European Parliament again, even though they don't really want to belong to it anymore.

The 27 remaining EU member states would have to agree unanimously to an extension. But if the British knock on the long-negotiated and reworked deal without their consent, the EU should reject it. As painful as it is, it should let the British go. And not because they wouldn't like to be seen in the EU.

A farce called Brexit

In fact, a European Union with a member Great Britain would be a better place. A member of the United Kingdom, of course, that is committed to the common project, that contributes in solidarity and participates constructively in a common refugee, economic and defence policy. But this EU member Britain will not exist for the foreseeable future.

The British have always been reluctant members of the EU. If one follows the debate in the British Parliament and in the British media, one can only be surprised at the continued entitlement mentality towards the European Union. The supporters of Brexit still seem to believe that all you have to do is negotiate differently and harder to retain all the benefits of the EU without being a member. Boris Johnson, May's former foreign minister and one of the driving forces behind the Brexit, is now proposing to join a very different negotiating team. It is not yet too late, Johnson claims.

In fact, it's too late. The European Union already has enough problems without the farce called Brexit. In France the yellow vests are rebelling, in Italy and Eastern Europe right-wing populists are ruling, working to undermine democracy. In the forthcoming European elections, it will be decided whether the enemies of the Community will become so strong that they can destroy the Union from within. The EU urgently needs to reform itself and find a new common ground: social, ecological, economic and military. It would be fatal if the quarreling British were to remain in the EU indefinitely, as their continued self-employment would prevent any progress. Incidentally, no second referendum would change that.

It is sad, but unfortunately unavoidable: Britain must leave. Perhaps it will return at some point.

Translated with www.deepl.com, German version at:

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/brexit-lasst-sie-ziehen-kolumne-a-1258381.html

Stopped reading at "The old men have suffered long enough under foreign rule, have been enslaved by immigrant bureaucrats"

Edit: I kid. I get that the reality is that having scorned their partner the UK is trying to get favorable conditions in the divorce settlement, but I still say best case scenario would be electing to stay together for the sake of the children.