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BREXIT Discussion, v4.0: The Back-Pedaling

On the contrary. The only two countries that want Britain to "ignore or rerun the referendum" are Scotland and Northern Ireland, and they're part of the U.K.

On the very morning after the vote, every single members of the EU (including the British government) have already accepted the fact that the U.K is leaving. Absolutely no one in the world out there disrespected the vote result, despite many being sadden to see it happened. That somber sentiment from leaders all around the world has already been covered extensively in the very first post of the Brexit Discussion v3, something I'm sure everyone here have already read.

As mentioned in multiple articles covering the Brexit Summit in Brussels in this thread, absolutely NO ONE in the E.U is trying to stop the U.K from leaving - every single one of them are actually wishing for it to happen as soon as possible so the market wouldn't be further affected by any more uncertainties.

In the article posted directly above his dumb post, Angela Merkel sums it up best when she said "We can see no way to turn this around. It's not a time for wishful thinking, but of contemplating the reality."

David Cameron himself concluded after the meeting that "there was universal respect for the UK's decision to leave, despite a tone of sadness and regret".

Therefore, I must conclude that @DynamicLoosener's ridiculous assertion that "The world is showing us how much our votes don't matter and we are basically slaves" is utter bullshit.

There is only one thing I cannot tolerate in my threads: people saying stupid shit because they couldn't read the information presented right on front of their face. I will give him one more chance to explain that ridiculous assertion, before the curb-stomping begins:

You're arguing a different point the one I made. I didn't say they disrespected the vote or are trying to stop us leaving. I'm saying that they would prefer we stay, however that happens. That much is completely obvious. They're very worried about us leaving and made it very clear they wanted us to stay before the referendum and there is no reason to believe they've changed their mind. Since the only options for us staying are ignore or rerun then they would obviously like that to happen. They're not pressuring is to do that because they're not in a position to do so. But they would prefer it.

There is one possible but risky way to turn this around, despite what Merkel says - all Cameron has to do is to call a general election right now. Any party campaigning can include a referendum in their manifesto and you've got a moral and political case for another referendum. In fact even just a policy to remain would do it. but he's not going to do that because the Tory's might lose or a Tory Brexit candidate might be the one representing the Tory's in the election, and remember that the reason we've had this referndum in the first place is because of divisions in his party all that time ago.

One thing I'd be interested to hear about would be Cameron to go to the EU and offer them a second referendum in return for some kind of immigration cap or control on EU migrants. I wonder if they'd accept it and if the UK public would vote for it?

What do you make of that list of ignored and rerun referendums about the EU?
 
You're arguing a different point the one I made. I didn't say they disrespected the vote or are trying to stop us leaving.

That was pretty much the strawman that guy dragged into our thread, one that I'm about to set on fire, along with him.

I'm saying that they would prefer we stay, however that happens. That much is completely obvious. They're very worried about us leaving and made it very clear they wanted us to stay before the referendum and there is no reason to believe they've changed their mind. Since the only options for us staying are ignore or rerun then they would obviously like that to happen. They're not pressuring is to do that because they're not in a position to do so. But they would prefer it.

There is one possible but risky way to turn this around, despite what Merkel says - all Cameron has to do is to call a general election right now. Any party campaigning can include a referendum in their manifesto and you've got a moral and political case for another referendum. In fact even just a policy to remain would do it. but he's not going to do that because the Tory's might lose or a Tory Brexit candidate might be the one representing the Tory's in the election, and remember that the reason we've had this referndum in the first place is because of divisions in his party all that time ago.

One thing I'd be interested to hear about would be Cameron to go to the EU and offer them a second referendum in return for some kind of immigration cap or control on EU migrants. I wonder if they'd accept it and if the UK public would vote for it?

From my personal point of view, some of you Brits are currently acting like that angry wife who threatened to leave to get the divorce papers because she didn't get everything she wanted, and then she immediately regrets it the moment she began walking towards the front door and realize no one is actually stopping her, so she starts dragging her feet and yell "I'm leaving you for real! Don't try to stop me!", hoping that someone actually would.

Is that about summing it up? :)

The world has already accepted the fact that Britain voted to leave the E.U. The world is ready for Britain to get on with it and leave the E.U as soon as possible, ESPECIALLY after that utterly stupid gloating episode by Nigel Farage in the EU summit this morning. I think it's about time that you Brits to stop dragging your feet and comes to term with the path 52% of you have chosen as well.

If you CAN'T come to term with it, then swallow your pride and do whatever you gotta do. As long as Article 50 isn't invoked yet, the EU would still welcome you back with open arms, and in all likelihood, they'll probably make some of the major changes that you wanted all along, with or without you.

The ball is in your court, though you might want to rethink again if you actually expects your government to be willing to do anything else but to take it and go home.

That sound you hear? That's the clock ticking down to David Cameron's date of resignation, and with it the final days of Britain in the E.U.

What do you make of that list of ignored and rerun referendums about the EU?

Honestly? I think it's completely irrelevant to Brexit, and I think you know it too.

The Brexit vote is not ignored by the EU, simply because it is by the U.K. Being the second-biggest boy in the playground have it perks, which perhaps could also be as downside, if you don't intend to follow through with your bluff. When you said you're gonna do something, everyone gonna expects you to actually do it.

Strange how getting exactly what you wish for (rather than being ignored like the little guys) can be a disappointing experience, isn't it?
 
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That was pretty much the strawman that guy dragged into our thread, one that I'm about to set on fire, along with him.



From my personal point of view, some of you Brits are currently acting like that angry wife who threatened to leave to get the divorce papers because she didn't get everything she wanted, and then she immediately regrets it the moment she began walking towards the front door and realize no one is actually stopping her, so she starts dragging her feet and yell "I'm leaving you for real! Don't try to stop me!", hoping that someone actually would.

Is that about summing it up? :)

The world has already accepted the fact that Britain voted to leave the E.U. The world is ready for Brtain to get on with it and leave the E.U as soon as possible. I think it's about time that you Brits to stop dragging your feet and come to term with it as well.



Honestly? I think it's completely irrelevant to Brexit, and I think you know it too.

The Brexit vote is not ignored by the EU, simply because it is by the U.K. Being the second-biggest boy in the playground have it perks, which perhaps could also be as downside, if you don't intend to follow through with your bluff.

Strange how getting exactly what you wish for (rather than being ignored like the little guys) can be a disappointing experience, isn't it?

yes I think there is an element of regret born of fear right now. I think there was a protest aspect to some of the voting. People are heartily sick of the way the EU goes about things, resent their feelings of powerlessness over it incessant march towards greater unification and of course the imposition of open borders at a time where wide financial differences between countries make mass movement a certainty with no end in site. However they're scared of the effects of leaving but not actually getting the immigration controls. I'm fairly certain that had the EU agreed to an immigration cap before the vote then it would have been in remain's favours. A hell of lot of people in Europe are very unhappy with the open borders. It used to work well before the poor countries joint because it just made things easier for everyone without any mass movement of poeple but that's changed and rules haven't kept up.

However, buyers remorse is natural and nobody really knows what the deals will be. It may be that people do get what they want. I'm personally pretty hopeful. I can't see it reversing the immigration any time soon but we might well get a deal that works for us better. I'm still mystified as to why 100% open borders, no matter the numbers involved, is apparently so crucial to the EU and why they refuse any negotiation on it despite the rise of the far right that I believe the policy is helping develop.

I wasn't asking if those overruled referendums are relevant to Brexit as such but asking about their apparent undemocratic nature which is relevant to the disussion. People claim that the EU project has a life of its own outside the will of the people, and it marches onwards whatever they say or do. And on the face of it, those reversed or rerun referendums would appear to support that view. That's what I'm asking about.
 
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yes I think there is an element of regret born of fear right now. I think there was a protest aspect to some of the voting. People are heartily sick of the way the EU goes about things, resent their feelings of powerlessness over it incessant march towards greater unification and of course the imposition of open borders at a time where wide financial differences between countries make mass movement a certainty with no end in site. However they're scared of the effects of leaving but not actually getting the immigration controls. I'm fairly certain that had the EU agreed to an immigration cap before the vote then it would have been in remain's favours. A hell of lot of people in Europe are very unhappy with the open borders. It used to work well before the poor countries joint because it just made things easier for everyone without any mass movement of poeple but that's changed and rules haven't kept up.

However, buyers remorse is natural and nobody really knows what the deals will be. It may be that people do get what they want. I'm personally pretty hopeful. I can't see it reversing the immigration any time soon but we might well get a deal that works for us better. I'm still mystified as to why 100% open borders, no matter the numbers involved, is apparently so crucial to the EU and why they refuse any negotiation on it despite the rise of the far right that I believe the policy is helping develop.

Careful mate, you begins to sound awfully similar to the "Bregret" fools who did not take the most important British vote of this century seriously, which I'm sure you're not. I'm confident that every Sherdoggers who participated in our Brexit discussion threads and read all the critical facts neatly indexed these past four months fully understands the ramification of the Leave/Remain vote, and take it seriously, without regrets.

You think it's natural for people to change their mind on something this important in LESS THAN A WEEK after the vote. I personally think it's quite ridiculous to see headlines like these, to be honest:


Brexit: More than one million people want to change their vote from Leave to Remain
Jess Staufenberg
Monday 27 June 2016
More than one million people regret their vote to leave the European Union, an opinion poll carried out in the wake of the Brexit decision suggests.

Of the 17.4 million people who voted Leave, 1.1 million now say they wish they had not, if the results of a Survation poll are to be believed.

The poll found that people who used Brexit as a protest vote - or thought their vote "wouldn't matter" - are now having second thoughts.

One Twitter user posted: "I personally voted Leave because I believed these lies and I regret it more than anything. I feel genuinely robbed of my vote."

The Leave camp polled 1.3 million more votes than Remain in the 23 June referendum.

But about seven per cent of those surveyed by Survation said they regretted ticking "Leave" - a number equal to about 1,130,000.

Yet the poll also showed that thousands of people regretted their vote to remain in the EU, according to the Mail on Sunday.

Despite Leave just winning the referendum, an equivalent of 696,000 people apparently wish they had lent their support to the victorious side.

Had they changed their votes, Remain would not have won but the margin for Brexit would have been narrowed to less than a million.

As it stands, the UK has been split 48.2 per cent and 51.8 per cent for leaving the EU - with Scotland, London, Northern Ireland, some cities and the younger generation voted out by the rural English and older generations.

Brexit voters have even called electoral services asking if they can change their vote, prompting anger among Remain campaigners over the so-called "Bregretters".

Meanwhile, a petition for a second referendum on EU membership has garnered more than 3.6 million votes.

Another Brexit voter tweeted: "Urm, I think I kind of regret my vote. I had no real reason to pick what I did!"

David Cameron has said he will step down in the next three months and a new leader will have to negotiate Article 50, which officially triggers an exit from the EU.

Leave campaigners Boris Johnson and Michael Gove have said there is "no need for haste", but EU officials have said the British people's will must be respected and Britain will have to leave as soon as possible.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ond-remain-latest-will-we-leave-a7105116.html


I wasn't asking if those overruled referendums are relevant to Brexit as such but asking about their apparent undemocratic nature which is relevant to the disussion. People claim that the EU project has a life of its own outside the will of the people, and it marches onwards whatever they say or do. And on the face of it, those reversed or rerun referendums would appear to support that view. That's what I'm asking about.

There is one possible but risky way to turn this around, despite what Merkel says - all Cameron has to do is to call a general election right now. Any party campaigning can include a referendum in their manifesto and you've got a moral and political case for another referendum. In fact even just a policy to remain would do it. but he's not going to do that because the Tory's might lose or a Tory Brexit candidate might be the one representing the Tory's in the election, and remember that the reason we've had this referndum in the first place is because of divisions in his party all that time ago.

One thing I'd be interested to hear about would be Cameron to go to the EU and offer them a second referendum in return for some kind of immigration cap or control on EU migrants. I wonder if they'd accept it and if the UK public would vote for it?

You expressed concerns about the E.U's "undemocratic nature" by bringing up a list of ignored/overruled referendums, immediately after drawing up plans that your own government can do to ignore the will of your own people, in a 100% democratic vote less than a week ago? o_O

You Brits are quite the embodiment of living contradictions right now, aren't you? Are you for democracy or against democracy, really? :cool:

Your Prime Minister warned the voters repeatedly these past few months that "this is a Referendum, not a Neverendum", whatever the British people decide on June 23 is the path Britain will take. I hope British voters are educated enough to fully understood what that incredibly simple concept means.
 
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Not sure if this is funny or sad. It's the most important British vote of the century and these folks thought it's just fun and games:


Anger over 'Bregret' as Leave voters say they thought UK would stay in EU

Lizzie Dearden
Saturday 25 June 2016


remain.jpg

Remain voters are voicing their outrage amid claims by some people who voted for a Brexit that they regret their decision.

Electoral services workers have reported calls from people asking if they could change their decision after Friday’s result became clear, while some publicly admitted they intended to use a “protest vote” in the belief the UK was certain to remain in the European Union.

The anxiety – dubbed “Bregret” – emerged as the value of the pound tumbled and markets crashed, while somefelt betrayed by Nigel Farage’s admission that a Vote Leave poster pledging to spend millions of pounds supposedly given to the EU on the NHS was a “mistake”.

Mandy Suthi, a student who voted to leave, told ITV News she would tick the Remain box if she had a second chance and said her parents and siblings also regretted their choice.

“I would go back to the polling station and vote to stay, simply because this morning the reality is kicking in,” she said.

“I wish we had the opportunity to vote again,” she added, saying she was “very disappointed”.

Khembe Gibbons, a lifeguard from Bury St Edmunds in Suffolk, also said she had regrets about her decision after Mr Farage said he could not guarantee NHS funding.

"We've left the EU, David Cameron's resigned, we're left with Boris, and Nigel has just basically given away that the NHS claim was a lie,” she wrote.

"I personally voted leave believing these lies, and I regret it more than anything, I feel genuinely robbed of my vote."

A woman calling into an LBC radio show echoed the sentiment, saying she felt “conned” by the claim and felt “a bit sick”.

A voter who gave his name as Adam told the BBC he would have changed his pro-Brexit vote if he knew the short-term consequences it would have for the UK economy.

"The David Cameron resignation has blown me away to be honest and the period of uncertainty that we’re going to be magnified now so yeah, I’m quite worried,” he said.

"I'm shocked that we voted for Leave, I didn't think that was going to happen. I didn't think my vote was going to matter too much because I thought we were just going to remain."

A blogger from Sheffield shared a message from a friend working in electoral services, claiming Brexit voters and pro-Remain members of the electorate who failed to turn out because they were confident of the win had been calling in.

“We had people phone up today wanting to change their vote or ask if they could still vote as they don’t want to leave,” the message read.



Several pro-EU politicians voiced their suspicions that some Leave voters would have regrets on Friday, with Labour MP Diane Abbott and Green MP Caroline Lucas saying Euroscepticism had become a “kind of proxy” for deep-seated problems with immigration, the NHS and other key issues.

Tony Blair, the former Prime Minister, said the Remain campaign had failed to show people the referendum “was not a protest vote against the Government or indeed the Establishment”.

Opinion polls in the months leading up to Thursday’s historic vote had dominantly shown a lead for Remain, although surveys in recent days showed the result on a knife-edge and around 10 per cent of the electorate still undecided – generating a huge swing.

The final result was 17,410,742 votes for Leave (51.9 per cent) compared to 16,141,241 for Remain (48.1 per cent), on a turnout of 72 per cent.

The close result has generated calls for a second referendum, as well as growing fury from pro-EU voters at the U-turn from some Brexiters.

Paul, a gamer, tweeted: "So leave voters have realised what they done and regret voting leave and would vote remain given another chance? Bit late now."

“Really NOT enjoying people saying they voted Leave and now regret it, just shush please, not helping,” another added.

The result has sparked plans for a second independence referendum in Scotland, where all electoral districts voted Remain, and a petition for London to declare independence from the rest of the UK and apply to join the EU.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...hought-uk-stay-in-eu-remain-win-a7102516.html
 
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Why do you even post that bullshit?
 
The Golden One makes Glorious videos. I would highly recommend checking out his YouTube channel.

"Get massive, get used to violence, acquire weapons if you can, organize yourselves in groups and most importantly, educate your mind so that you can bring intellectual destruction towards the leftists and liberals."



LOL, the irony of citing Michael Collins as an example of someone to stop foreign invaders, in a Brexit discussion.
 
Anger over 'Bregret' as Leave voters say they thought UK would stay in EU
Lizzie Dearden
Saturday 25 June 2016


remain.jpg



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...hought-uk-stay-in-eu-remain-win-a7102516.html


the left should honestly be ashamed of the garbage ass media they are putting out and their followers are regurgitating all over social media. its shameful, its undemocratic and you look worse than Fox News ever could.

Its crazy how quickly most slaves will take up arms to defend their masters. Oh we lost 3trillion in 64 seconds... oh noez!! The average Brit didnt lose shit. The average Brit doesnt have shit. The EU isnt serving the average Brit. These numbers make no difference. You scumbags. This is just the beginning and it sucks that some decent ppl are on the wrong side of history but thats the way it goes.
 
LOL, the irony of citing Michael Collins as an example of someone to stop foreign invaders, in a Brexit discussion.

There are neither Irish nor British people in the future the Globalists have planned deise, give it a rest for once.
 
You expressed concerns about the E.U's "undemocratic nature" by bringing up a list of ignored/overruled referendums, immediately after drawing up plans that your own government can do to ignore the will of your own people, in a 100% democratic vote less than a week ago? o_O

You Brits are quite the embodiment of living contradictions right now, aren't you? Are you for democracy or against democracy, really? :cool:

Your Prime Minister warned the voters repeatedly these past few months that "this is a Referendum, not a Neverendum", whatever the British people decide on June 23 is the path Britain will take. I hope British voters are educated enough to fully understood what that incredibly simple concept means.

No I asked you question which you still haven't answered. I'm asking you - do you not think that list of reversed and ignored referendums on the EU is a reasonable example of the EU project going ahead despite what their people tell them. I think it is.
You're deliberately misrepresenting what I'm saying. I'm not cooking up plans. You're making incorrect assumptions about what I'm saying and why I'm saying it. I'm pointing out that there are ways to reverse it if they wanted to and then saying why they probably won't. I'm only about 75% certain we'll leave given the opposition in parliament. If a GE was somehow forced it would change things. There is no contradiction.

There would be buyers remorse if the vote had gone the other way, especially if the press went as doom-mongering against the Remain situation as they have with the Leave. They've had a vertiable orgy of negativity, reporting the FTSE hourly as we can possibly tell the effects in the first few days. No wonder people are scared.

I always wonder about Americans commenting on EU since I find it very hard to believe the USA public would ever agree to joining such an organisation themselvess
 
No I asked you question which you still haven't answered. I'm asking you - do you not think that list of reversed and ignored referendums on the EU is a reasonable example of the EU project going ahead despite what their people tell them. I think it is.
You're deliberately misrepresenting what I'm saying. I'm not cooking up plans. You're making incorrect assumptions about what I'm saying and why I'm saying it. I'm pointing out that there are ways to reverse it if they wanted to and then saying why they probably won't. I'm only about 75% certain we'll leave given the opposition in parliament. If a GE was somehow forced it would change things. There is no contradiction.

There would be buyers remorse if the vote had gone the other way, especially if the press went as doom-mongering against the Remain situation as they have with the Leave. They've had a vertiable orgy of negativity, reporting the FTSE hourly as we can possibly tell the effects in the first few days. No wonder people are scared.

I always wonder about Americans commenting on EU since I find it very hard to believe the USA public would ever agree to joining such an organisation themselvess

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Free_Trade_Agreement
 
There are neither Irish nor British people in the future the Globalists have planned deise, give it a rest for once.

Give it a rest ? What are you going to do, claim racism again like you usually do when you cannot back up your side of the story. Have a look through your own postings, hypocrite.
 
I've no idea what that is supposed to mean. It's nothing like the EU.

It's exactly the same process as the Benelux coal and steel alliance -> EEC -> EC -> EU it just is less far advanced in North America than in EUrope.
 
LOL, the irony of citing Michael Collins as an example of someone to stop foreign invaders, in a Brexit discussion.

That particular video with the picture of Michael Collins was released May 2015. It had nothing to do with Brexit and everything to do with nationalism and anti-globalism.
 
Anger over 'Bregret' as Leave voters say they thought UK would stay in EU
Lizzie Dearden
Saturday 25 June 2016


remain.jpg



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...hought-uk-stay-in-eu-remain-win-a7102516.html


I have a really hard time believing that story. What mentally sane person would legitimately vote for something they never wanted in the first place? I absolutely hate Canada's Justin Trudeau and there is no way I would vote for him thinking, "I hate Justin Trudeau and do not want to see him as PM, but I will vote for him anyway because he probably won't get voted in." Something about that story feels a little strange to me. It reeks of bullshit.
 
the left should honestly be ashamed of the garbage ass media they are putting out and their followers are regurgitating all over social media. its shameful, its undemocratic and you look worse than Fox News ever could.

Its crazy how quickly most slaves will take up arms to defend their masters. Oh we lost 3trillion in 64 seconds... oh noez!! The average Brit didnt lose shit. The average Brit doesnt have shit. The EU isnt serving the average Brit. These numbers make no difference. You scumbags. This is just the beginning and it sucks that some decent ppl are on the wrong side of history but thats the way it goes.


Goes to show you that the left is completely in the pocket of globalists. US Stocks have already erased half of brexit's losses in less than a week and pound is expect to be end $1.40 by end week. All the fear mongering from a week ago has proven to be BS so they have to keep lying to make LEAVE voter seem incompetent. News flash, if 1 million people decided to vote Remain, they would have STILL lost
 
I think there is going to be an attempt to ignore the vote...
Cameron didnt sign the exit documents like he should have done. He is going to leave it to the next leader and that next leader is going to be a handpicked stooge who will ask for another referendum.
Then there will be massive corruption in another vote to ensure the win.

Every referendum that has gone against the EU has been ignored.
 
I think there is going to be an attempt to ignore the vote...
Cameron didnt sign the exit documents like he should have done. He is going to leave it to the next leader and that next leader is going to be a handpicked stooge who will ask for another referendum.
Then there will be massive corruption in another vote to ensure the win.

Every referendum that has gone against the EU has been ignored.



and leftists CONTINUE to defend the EU because 'immigration', we have to white knight Islam
 
Anyone that follows markets knows the stock slide and the currency decline isn't a big deal. Big swings happen from speculators every time a big global event happens. They'll recover and go back to normal over time.

What no one seems to be talking about is that the Euro itself is facing a systemic crisis. If member states can be allowed to just leave like the UK is doing, it's completely unstable over the long-term. Not to mention, the PIGS debt are a ticking-time bomb that everyone knows is going to explode but just hope it's during the next guy's term. Both of these are going to destroy the Euro.
 
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