BREXIT Discussion, v4.0: The Back-Pedaling

[Rod1]

Always going to be idiots but the corporate media are clearly pushing a narrative to smear the leave supporters and supress any anti-EU, anti-globalist, anti-establishment sentiment. It's the same routine whenever there's an Islamic terror attack, report that Muslim are now the victims of increasing racist hate crime, when the truth is you could easily find such uncommon, isolated incidents and portray them as being rampant at any time if you wanted to

It's just more propaganda to keep people scared, paranoid and at each others throats.

But for some balance, just look at this from the pro EU ralley in London

Complains about the media painting a biased picture.

Post pictures without any context whatsoever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_media_effect

 

[in the]

 

[Arkain2K]

EU tells UK single market access requires full free movement
By William James and Paul Taylor
Wed Jun 29, 2016

European Union leaders met for the first time without Britain on Wednesday less than a week after it voted to leave, delivering a tough message that London can access the bloc's lucrative single market only if it agrees to allow free movement for EU workers.

Last week's shock referendum vote to leave the EU has caused global financial market turmoil, sent the pound sterling tumbling and wiped billions off the value of British shares. Britain's giant financial services sector, roughly 8 percent of economy, relies crucially on access to the EU market.

Prime Minister David Cameron, who campaigned to stay in the EU and lost, has announced his resignation and left it up to his successor to negotiate the terms of Britain's exit.

But leaders of the victorious Leave campaign have not spelled out in detail what sort of relationship they hope to build with Brussels, creating uncertainty about the future for both Britain and the rest of the bloc.

Cameron, staying on as caretaker until a successor is found, told EU leaders at his final summit with them on Tuesday that he believed the referendum was lost over the principle of unrestricted travel among EU citizens.

But free movement of workers is one of "four freedoms" -- along with movement of capital, goods and services -- that the EU says must be maintained by any country that wants access to its common market. The 27 leaders added a line to their summit statement at the last minute emphasizing that principle.

They also called on Britain to trigger the EU's exit clause by notifying them of its intention to withdraw, which would start a two year clock to negotiate its exit.

"There can be no negotiations of any kind before this notification has taken place," the statement said. Cameron wants time for his successor to formulate a strategy and sound out European colleagues before beginning the countdown.


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-wrapup-idUSKCN0ZF29S

 

[Hard To Tell]

Complains about the media painting a biased picture.

Post pictures without any context whatsoever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_media_effect

Erm, that was kind of the point. You can portray any group of people any way you want with selective reporting.

Just like you could use this video as being a fair representaion of the intelligence level of remain voters



Plus it's no coincidence that the hate crime angle is now being pushed as the pound and FTSE continue to rebound much quicker than expected and a major employer, manufacturer and contributor to the UK eccony Airbus is the latest to say that they have no intention of pulling manufacturing out of the UK and that Brexit doesn't change anything. Despite being repeatedly warned by the remain camp that this was something that would definitely happen if we dared vote leave.

 

[Arkain2K]

Blow dealt to Scotland’s hopes of separate EU talks
France and Spain say Brussels must negotiate only with the UK government
June 29, 2016

Scotland’s First Minister Nicola Sturgeon is welcomed by European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker ahead of a meeting at the EC in Brussels.​

Spain and France have dealt a major blow to Scottish hopes of staying in the EU as the rest of Britain leaves, insisting that Brussels must negotiate only with the UK government.

Spanish prime minister Mariano Rajoy told reporters at the European Council summit in the Belgian capital: “If the United Kingdom leaves, so does Scotland. Scotland has no competences to negotiate with the EU. The Spanish government rejects any negotiation with anyone other than the United Kingdom.”

French president Francois Hollande agreed, saying: “The negotiations will be conducted with the United Kingdom, not with a part of the United Kingdom.”

Their interventions could dash any move to secure a separate deal for continued Scottish membership before the UK completes its two-year withdrawal process, as any such arrangement would depend on unanimous support from member states.

That would leave Edinburgh with the less appetising prospect of applying to join as a new member following the UK’s departure - and probably being required to join the euro and erect a “hard” border with England as part of the deal.

The setback came as Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon visited Brussels on a mission to inform key EU figures of Scotland’s position following last week’s referendum.

Her visit comes after MSPs voted to give her a “mandate” to hold discussions with EU institutions as well as the UK government and other devolved nations.

Ms Sturgeon has said that “everything must be on the table to protect Scotland’s place in Europe” after the UK voted to leave the EU while a large majority of Scots voted to stay.

Right to be heard

European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker, who is meeting Ms Sturgeon, said Scotland had “won a right to be heard” in Brussels.

But he poured cold water on Scottish hopes of negotiating a separate status, saying that neither he nor European Council president Donald Tusk would interfere in internal British politics.

“I will listen carefully to what the First Minister will tell me, but we don’t have the intention - neither Donald nor myself - to interfere in the British process,” said the commission president. “That is not our duty and not our job.”

Following talks with European Parliament president Martin Schulz, Ms Sturgeon made clear that plans for Scotland’s future relations with the EU remain embryonic.

“We are at a very early stage of this process. I’ve set out very clearly Scotland’s desire to protect our relationship with the European Union, ” she said.

“I don’t underestimate the challenges that lie ahead for us in seeking to find a path and this is very much an initial meeting and series of meetings in Brussels today so that people understand that Scotland, unlike other parts of the UK, doesn’t want to leave the EU.”

The First Minister’s diplomatic mission came as the European Council summit continued in the absence of David Cameron, who left after a single day in order to allow the remaining 27 states to discuss the political and practical implications of the referendum results among themselves.

In the House of Commons in London, the PM brushed off a demand from the SNP’s leader in Westminster, Angus Robertson, to assist Scotland in its efforts to remain a part of the EU.

Mr Cameron said that “the membership of the UK is a UK membership and that’s where we should take our negotiating stance”.

It was in Scotland’s best interest, as well as the interest of the UK as a whole, to negotiate “the closest possible relationship” with the remaining EU following withdrawal, he said.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/worl...otland-s-hopes-of-separate-eu-talks-1.2704270

 

[Awesomesauce]

Complains about the media painting a biased picture.

Post pictures without any context whatsoever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_media_effect

What possible fucking context could make those signs ok?

 

[Hard To Tell]

What possible fucking context could make those signs ok?

I know. Imagine if somene was holding a sign saying 'all blacks must die', I can't imagine anyone asking about context.

 

[Rod1]

Erm, that was kind of the point. You can portray any group of people any way you want with selective reporting.

Just like you could use this video as being a fair representaion of the intelligence level of remain voters

Plus it's no coincidence that the hate crime angle is now being pushed as the pound and FTSE continue to rebound much quicker than expected and a major employer, manufacturer and contributor to the UK eccony Airbus is the latest to say that they have no intention of pulling manufacturing out of the UK and that Brexit doesn't change anything. Despite being repeatedly warned by the remain camp that this was something that would definitely happen if we dared vote leave.

Yes, you can, but you have nerve to tell that the remain camp has an agenda when the leave camp has backtracked on most of its major claims by now.

Brexit wouldnt hit Britain hard if the leave camp had actually drawn a plan, they didnt, they played the oldest political move on the book, which is to criticize everything that people hate without having an actual plan on your own, like all mediocres, they are haters which when given the baton have no idea what to do because all they can offer is criticism.

You said it yourself the market will recover, eventually, when shit gets sorted out, which will be done eventually as people draw a plan of what to actually do on the run.

Thats why im calling the leave side a complete bunch of amateurs retards.

Its like the movie the graduate, where romanticallly Al Pacino breaks into the wedding, sure she was marrying because of social standing and the marriage wouldnt had been lovely, and so the leave camp wins, and its all shits and giggles for about 1 minute or so, until they are driving the bus and the adrenaline sets down and they start thinking about a future they have not planned.

Will they be ok? sure most likely. But claiming that Al Pacino is a good guy is retarded, he broke the wedding with absolutely nothing to offer, not even honest love.



Its like as if the leave side had no plan on what to do, a week has passed, where are the leave camp plans for the exit?

"Things will sort out themselves" is a sorry ass excuse from a mediocre politician whose only platform is adversarialism, like Tsipras.

EDIT

I just realize its Dustin Hoffman not Al Pacino, man they looked the same when young.

 

[Rod1]

What possible fucking context could make those signs ok?

Context, a bunch of retards nobody cares about.

Implied context, a globalwide conspiracy to weaken white nationalism to make room for a global government.

 

[Rod1]

I know. Imagine if somene was holding a sign saying 'all blacks must die', I can't imagine anyone asking about context.

I would assume that its a bunch of racist losers, not an indication that society itself wants blacks to die.

 

[Arkain2K]

I wonder if you people would do a better job at staying on topic had you knew how many yellow cards were given out in the previous threads?

We're talking about international Brexit trade negotiations in this thread, and here you are bickering over fucking signs.

 

[TheStruggle]

I wonder if you people would do a better job at staying on topic had you knew how many yellow cards were given out in the previous threads?

We're talking about international Brexit trade negotiations in this thread, and here you are bickering over fucking signs.

Yellow cards given because @Madmick can dish it but he can't take it

 

[Arkain2K]

EU leaders call for practical reforms after Brexit shock
Suzanne Lynch in Brussels, Derek Scally
June 29, 2016

German chancellor Angela Merkel has warned the EU of 27 member states, minus Britain, not to tie itself up in technocratic talk in the coming months but concentrate on delivering policy to change citizens’ lives for the better.

After their first Brussels meeting on Wednesday morning without Britain, EU leaders agreed that the bloc - shaken by last week’s Brexit vote - needed to agree on practical and pragmatic reforms after a period of “political reflection” ahead of their next meeting September.

“Often citizens don’t know why we are doing something and what goal it has,” said Dr Merkel after an informal meeting on Wednesday that was not attended by British prime minister David Cameron. “We have to convince people through what we do . . . It is not about more or less Europe but that better results are achieved.”

To cut youth unemployment in Europe, for instance, the German leader said it might be helpful to simultaneously scrap some EU rules while deepening cross-border co-operation.

Á la carte

Meanwhile, European Council President Donald Tusk said there will be “no single market á la carte” for Britain following the first meeting between Britain’s EU partners in the wake of the referendum result.

Speaking to journalists in Brussels, the head of the council appeared to rule out granting Britain concessions on free movement.

His comments were echoed by European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker: “Those wanting access to our single market must implement the four freedoms without exceptions and without nuances,” he said.

Mr Tusk said that the discussion at the meeting - the first without Britain in the room - had been “calm and serious.”

“Leaders are absolutely determined to remain united and to work together as 27,” he said, confirming plans for a summit in Bratislava on September 16th to discuss the fallout from the British referendum result.

Mr Tusk rejected suggestions that the EU was to blame for the British referendum result. He said the British settlement agreed by EU leaders February was “more than maximum that was possible in our treaties and acceptable to our treaties.”

Pragmatism

Dr Merkel’s call for greater pragmatism was shared by Belgian prime minister Charles Michel. He said leaders must counter perceptions that the EU is a “technocracy” by presenting measures with “real added value” for citizens.

Western European calls for pro-active pragmatism contrasted with post-referendum calls from central European capitals, demanding root canal work on EU treaties to rebalance power between Brussels and capitals.

Jaroslaw Kaczynski, the influential head of Poland’s ruling Law and Justice party, called for a new Europe of nation states creating a confederation and warned that “more integration” under current EU rules meant “more power for Berlin”.

Though those divisions may open up again in the coming weeks, EU officials insisted there had been “no voices” for treaty change around the meeting table on Wednesday.

Dr Merkel insisted her resistance to treaty change was not motivated by fear of another Brexit-style popular revolt - but a determination to present quick reforms. The current Lisbon Treaty was less than a decade old, she said, and offered “considerable flexibility”.

“When the Russians put a man in space, the US said ‘we’ll send someone to the moon’,” she said.

EU leaders -minus Britain - will meet again informally in September in Bratislava to discuss measures to boost economic growth, tackle terrorism together and reduce youth unemployment.

In a joint statement, the 27 EU leaders said they “deeply regret” the result of the vote and “hope to have the UK as a close partner . . . We look forward to the UK stating its intentions in this respect.”

Dissatisfaction

Despite the EU’s achievements, leaders said they were conscious that “many people express dissatisfaction with the current state of affairs, be it at the European or national level”.

“Europeans expect us to do better when it comes to providing securirty, jobs and growth, as well as hope for a better future,” they added. “We need to deliver on this, in a way that unites us, not least in the interest of the young.”

As the EU pressures Britain to officially file for divorce from the bloc in the weeks ahead, French president Francois Hollande said Europe must show “solidity” in the debate over further reform.

In Britain’s absence, several EU leaders expressed support for the British situation and called for measures to keep Britain included in European affairs.

Dutch prime minister Mark Rutte said: “It’s not only the British voters who have doubts about European co-operation. There is scepticism in many other EU countries.”

Italian premier Matteo Renzi proposed ad hoc citizenship measures to allow British students continue to study in EU universities. He also warned against the bloc “pretending that nothing had happened”.

“There is a significant part of public opinion and Europe’s ruling political class that has understood that we have to strongly relaunch the Europe that we believe in,” said Mr Renzi, “the one that wants to talk about values, that wants to talk about more than just procedures and rules.”

As the EU waits for London to come back with its exit timetable, other bloc leaders said they were not interested in hanging around in mourning at Britain’s departure.

“Today is about us,” said Dalia Grybauskaite, president of Lithuania. “Of course we will move on. Who will stop us?”

But with a major EU member no longer at the table, the German chancellor conceded it was an odd moment in EU history.

“We think we can master this situation as 27,” she said, “but we have no illusions about how this is a qualitatively different task than with 28.”

To cut youth unemployment in Europe, for instance, the German leader said it might be helpful to simultaneously scrap some EU rules while deepening cross-border co-operation.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/worl...ractical-reforms-after-brexit-shock-1.2703909

 

[whougonnacall]

That isn't "free movement of peoples". This isn't an ISIS thread, what are you doing in here?

It isnt? Shit

 

[Awesomesauce]

Context, a bunch of retards nobody cares about.

Implied context, a globalwide conspiracy to weaken white nationalism to make room for a global government.

Bullshit, those signs aren't ok regardless of context. They wouldn't be ok with any other group and they aren't ok with that group. There existence implies nothing about a wider belief and certainly nothing about a conspiracy. They wouldn't imply those things if they targeted another group but if they had, whoever was holding them would have been crucified by the media and society in general.

 

[Rod1]

Bullshit, those signs aren't ok regardless of context. They wouldn't be ok with any other group and they aren't ok with that group. There existence implies nothing about a wider belief and certainly nothing about a conspiracy. They wouldn't imply those things if they targeted another group but if they had, whoever was holding them would have been crucified by the media and society in general.

Yet people claim there is a conspiracy to create a narrative that all leavers are racist because videos with stupid people are going viral.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Erm, that was kind of the point. You can portray any group of people any way you want with selective reporting.

Just like you could use this video as being a fair representaion of the intelligence level of remain voters



Plus it's no coincidence that the hate crime angle is now being pushed as the pound and FTSE continue to rebound much quicker than expected and a major employer, manufacturer and contributor to the UK eccony Airbus is the latest to say that they have no intention of pulling manufacturing out of the UK and that Brexit doesn't change anything. Despite being repeatedly warned by the remain camp that this was something that would definitely happen if we dared vote leave.

I'd say the girl that video is a rather fair representation of the Remain campaign. Idealistic, parrots rhetoric and slogans while failing to provide legitimate facts, wants to open the borders to anyone and everyone and worries about having to work hard.

She certainly is attractive even with the strange make-up and goggles on her head.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Paul Joseph Watson

 

[Awesomesauce]

Yet people claim there is a conspiracy to create a narrative that all leavers are racist because videos with stupid people are going viral.

There clearly is a media driven narrative to this yes, they are CONSTANTLY bombarding the public with images and stories of racist leave voters. One would have to believe that either most of the people who voted to leave are racist, or the media is being biased. One quick examination of social media shows that the remain side has a far greater volume of bigots. Its clearly not even close, which is in direct opposition to the media's portrayal. A media that with virtual unanimity backed remain.

 

[whougonnacall]

Brexit is a lot more than simply immigration policy.

It is about sovereignty in general and trying to get out from underneath the massive bureaucracy operating on foreign soil. The EU is like a pink soviet union.

tighter borders were really the only real selling point of brexit
The soveriegnty argument is thin air the 100 or so trade treaties that will replace eu membership (which pretty much was the same thing) will amount to the same shit or more likely worse

The far right may get slightly weaker worker rights and the city less regulations to be more of a banking wild west rolling towards the next bailout (ie the real reason they pushed to leave the eu..not 'soveriegnty')
But wtf does the adverage person get as a plus for those negatives?
if everything stays the same and the borders still bleed and now the rich get to fuck us harder what was the point again?