BREXIT Discussion, v4.0: The Back-Pedaling

[Gervinho]

So Nigel Farage stepped down as UKIP chief.

Very smart move by farage. He went out just in time. He has never been viewed more positive now. WE expect things will get ugly next 12-18 months before we return to normality. Get out before it gets ugly and keep your name in tact. And come back when things has settled. This is also why Boris walked out. no one want to really sacrifice their political career with whats waiting in the near future

 

[Ruprecht]

So Nigel Farage stepped down as UKIP chief.

Ha! So much policy ambition for an independent UK. ...or England at least.

Spoiler

 

[JDragon]

At the same time, George Osborne announced that they were seeking to lower corporate taxes in response to Brexit to 15 percent in order to prevent the expected outflux of companies.

That just left my mouth wide open. Wow. What a desperate move. I really thought they had some better ideas in the drawer than this.

In 2012, UK corporate taxes were at 28 percent. They are currently at about 20 percent IIRC.

The thing is, I doubt making the UK a tax haven is gonna help much. Ireland already has a corporate tax rate of 12.5%, so companies that want to avoid paying taxes already can do so. In Ireland. Inside the EU.

 

[SyuYuKai]

The average pleb is ignorant or has a very basic knowledge of how a modern economy works, and it was very unwise and wreckless to let the plebs have a say in such a an important matter that they know so little about.

Sometimes people are too stupid to know whats good for them, and this is one of those cases.
Look at the EU-Canada trade negotiations; its 7 years in the making and still not close to finish.
It would take Britain decades to renegotiate trade deals with over 80 countries, and you can bet your ass that they wont get the same sweet deal as when they were an EU member....i highly doubt that Alan from Sussex who voted brexit knows about that.

Quitting the EU wont get them rid of the muslim immigrants and it can potentially fuck them economically big time...and on top of that, when UK will no longer be an EU member, France will feel less motivated to keep the immigrants on their side of border at Calais.

It is almost as if people care more about their own Liberty than they do a pound note.

 

[AznTrojan]

lol.. nigel farage just quit as head of the UKIP..

 

[Rod1]

It is almost as if people care more about their own Liberty than they do a pound note.

People care about liberty when its not affecting them economically.

Just look at the American war of independence, the colonies were perfectly fine as englishmen (when they were taking 4 more times what they gave back) until the British tried to actually make them pay up, then half the country revolted.

 

[JadeOwl]

People care about liberty when its not affecting them economically.

Just look at the American war of independence, the colonies were perfectly fine as englishmen (when they were taking 4 more times what they gave back) until the British tried to actually make them pay up, then half the country revolted.

 

[FIMN]

It is almost as if people care more about their own Liberty than they do a pound note.

I've never understood this. If anything, the average citizen is much more free having human rights guaranteed by courts at the European level, free movement of people, single market.

Can someone explain how I as a British citizen would be more free without Europe than with it?

 

[KnightTemplar]

I've never understood this. If anything, the average citizen is much more free having human rights guaranteed by courts at the European level, free movement of people, single market.

Can someone explain how I as a British citizen would be more free without Europe than with it?

1)The HRA has been abused many times. For example, two convicted philes who murdered a woman appealed to the ECHR because they claimed they had been denied the right to a speedy trial. The Court found in their favour, and while it did not award them damages, the cost to the British government to defend the appeal was hundreds of thousands of pounds.

Strangely enough, law abiding citizens like myself have noticed absolutely no difference in their lives since the EHRA became law.

2)If I wanted to go to Europe all I need is money and a passport. The guarantee of freedom of movement has no effect on me. Do you really think European nations are going to start turning away British passport holders? Of course not. Freedom of movement might benefit refugees, but I don't care about them.

 

[Gl0kta]

2)If I wanted to go to Europe all I need is money and a passport. The guarantee of freedom of movement has no effect on me. Do you really think European nations are going to start turning away British passport holders? Of course not. Freedom of movement might benefit refugees, but I don't care about them.

Tell that to the 2 million Brits working in the EU, but your ok so guess thats fine.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Tell that to the 2 million Brits working in the EU, but your ok so guess thats fine.

Well, yes, of course. My own well-being is my primary motivation. But if you really are stupid enough to think the EU is going to deport two million workers, you're probably dumb enough to care about immigrants, so there is little point in arguing with you.

 

[JadeOwl]

2)If I wanted to go to Europe all I need is money and a passport. The guarantee of freedom of movement has no effect on me. Do you really think European nations are going to start turning away British passport holders? Of course not. Freedom of movement might benefit refugees, but I don't care about them.

If you want to work in the continent it will affect you.

 

[Arkain2K]

So Nigel Farage stepped down as UKIP chief.

Farage and Boris think they can just walk away after orchestrating this mess huh.

Then again, voters are generally stupid, they're more likely to blame their future economic misery on the next government rather than the men who sets it in flame and then walks away whistlin'.

Other folks at the negotiation table, however, might not so easily forget how Farage took the effort to go all the way to the E.U summit last week just to taunt and gloat like a little bitch.

-----

Nigel Farage Says He’ll Step Down as Head of U.K. Independence Party
By STEPHEN CASTLE
JULY 4, 2016

Nigel Farage, the leader of the right-wing U.K. Independence Party, in London on Monday. He said he had achieved his central ambition of getting Britain to leave the European Union, and was leaving his party in a “pretty good place.”​

LONDON — Nigel Farage, the man credited by many with pressing the British government into holding a referendum on the European Union, announced on Monday that he was standing down as leader of the populist, right-wing U.K. Independence Party.

Mr. Farage, 52, said that he had “done my bit,” achieved his central ambition and left his party in a “pretty good place” in the wake of Britain’s vote on June 23 to quit the 28-nation bloc.

“I have never been, and I have never wanted to be, a career politician,” he said. “My aim of being in politics was to get Britain out of the European Union.”

Monday was not the first time Mr. Farage said he would quit the party leadership: He made a similar promise after the 2015 general election — when he failed to win a seat in the British Parliament — only to change his mind.

As a member of the U.K. Independence Party, Mr. Farage has campaigned for more than 15 years to leave the European Union, increasingly highlighting the issue of immigration.

His success alarmed lawmakers of the Conservative Party of Prime Minister David Cameron, who, under pressure,promised in 2013 to call an in-or-out referendum. After the Conservatives’ surprising victory in last year’s general election, Mr. Cameron was compelled to make good on that promise.

Mr. Farage remains a member of the European Parliament, to which he was first elected in 1999. Last Tuesday, after the referendum, Mr. Farage taunted fellow lawmakers in Brussels.

“When I came here 17 years ago and said I wanted to lead a campaign to get Britain to leave the European Union, you all laughed at me,” he said to jeers and groans. “Well, you’re not laughing now.”

His colleagues in the European Parliament were not sorry to see him go. “#NigelFarage is the latest coward to abandon the chaos he is responsible for,” Manfred Weber, a German member of the European Parliament who has denounced Mr. Farage as a demagogue, wrote on Twitter. “This shows that he has no credibility at all.”


http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/05/world/europe/nigel-farage-ukip-brexit.html?_r=0&referer=.

 

[JadeOwl]

Well, yes, of course. My own well-being is my primary motivation. But if you really are stupid enough to think the EU is going to deport two million workers, you're probably dumb enough to care about immigrants, so there is little point in arguing with you.

They're not going to need to deport them. If the companies employing them decide they don't want the regulatory hassle of employing someone from outside the EU they will just fire them and replace them with people who can move and work freely inside the EU. They will be fucked all the same.

 

[KnightTemplar]

If you want to work in the continent it will affect you.

But I have no intention of doing so. So it won't. Just like the EHRA is of limited use to me, as I'm not a phile, terrorist or drug dealer.

In any case, a friend of mine is an oil worker who's job regularly takes him to Europe. He still voted leave, so I think you're exaggerating the effect.

 

[KnightTemplar]

They're not going to need to deport them. If the companies employing them decide they don't want the regulatory hassle of employing someone from outside the EU they will just fire them and replace them with people who can move and work freely inside the EU. They will be fucked all the same.

And like the immigrants who drown trying to reach Europe: that's not my problem.

 

[JadeOwl]

But I have no intention of doing so. So it won't. Just like the EHRA is of limited use to me, as I'm not a phile, terrorist or drug dealer.

In any case, a friend of mine is an oil worker who's job regularly takes him to Europe. He still voted leave, so I think you're exaggerating the effect.

The fact that your buddy is a short sighted imbecile disproves nothing of what I said.

 

[SyuYuKai]

People care about liberty when its not affecting them economically.

Just look at the American war of independence, the colonies were perfectly fine as englishmen (when they were taking 4 more times what they gave back) until the British tried to actually make them pay up, then half the country revolted.

It will affect me as well as million of others, it just isn't my priority.

 

[FIMN]

1)The HRA has been abused many times. For example, two convicted philes who murdered a woman appealed to the ECHR because they claimed they had been denied the right to a speedy trial. The Court found in their favour, and while it did not award them damages, the cost to the British government to defend the appeal was hundreds of thousands of pounds.

Strangely enough, law abiding citizens like myself have noticed absolutely no difference in their lives since the EHRA became law.

2)If I wanted to go to Europe all I need is money and a passport. The guarantee of freedom of movement has no effect on me. Do you really think European nations are going to start turning away British passport holders? Of course not. Freedom of movement might benefit refugees, but I don't care about them.

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN05611#fullreport

42 pages of cases. 2 seconds on Google. Again, I as a citizen am less free without that court. That is undeniable. There may be applications of the law we don't like,but thankfully the legal system doesn't rely on us having to like the outcomes of key cases for us to have the rights.

Of course we can still travel and work in Europe, but there will be barriers where there were none. Again, as a citizen I am less free without Europe.

 

[KnightTemplar]

The fact that your buddy is a short sighted imbecile disproves nothing of what I said.

He has two homes, one of them in Europe and on average he pulls down about £200 an hour. But yeah, he voted to give all that up

In any case, there's a decent chance this will become a moot point as more and more countries sever ties from Europe. The EU is a deeply flawed creation. It should be put out of it's misery.