Boxing vs MT

[ssullivan80]

I agree with alot of what you have to say- slipping, shoulder rolling, and to some extent bobbing + weaving can be used in MMA, but not the same as it is in straight boxing. Special consideration has to be given to knees, kicks, elbows, & takedowns, lest you eat a knee/ kick.

HOWEVER. Saying that straight boxers do better in K-1 & MMA rules is a harsh over- generalization.

Of course Thai's have to adapt to rulesets like that of K-1, where the clinch striking is severely limited, and theres much more emphasis on range striking. Buakaw has improved his hands since debuting, but that didn't stop him from dominating with his kicks & brutal clinch knees when he first hit the K1 MAX scene.

Now, if you're hypothesizing that boxers do better in K1 than Thais, you would be making a statement that isn't supported by empirical data. Francois Botha is probably the best boxer, most reasonably within his athletic prime to ever do decently well in K-1, and his only real quality win was over JLB, who has always been best with his hands. Anyone who could really kick worth a damn beat Francois, Aerts not withstanding.

As for your assertion that Boxers do better than Nak Muays in combat sports in general, again, empirical evidence disagrees. Show me a fight where a boxer type striker outstrikes a MT type striker, and i'll show you 5 where the opposite result happens. Cantwell/ Stann 2, Aldo vs. Brown/ Gamburyan, Edgar/ Penn 2, Feijao/ Mo, etc etc ad nauseam.

K-1 style rules emphasize kicks and punches (as well as knees from a distance/ a 1 handed clinch, I guess...); in MMA, the hands do receive a bit more emphasis because of takedowns and the smaller gloves, but if you're not prepared to at least defend kicks/ knees/ elbows (as straight BOXING will not prepare you for the 8 points of Muay Thai.

Again, I always appreciate your posts and you are correct. I should of been more concise when addressing boxers, holistically as athletes, vs. the art of boxing. I should of said that "boxing" as a skill has shown to be the single most important and effective aspect of striking more consistently than any other art in combat or ring-sport. Not that "Boxers" are better combat athletes, as a generalization. Instead that boxing ability, whether or not it is the base of your style is imperative, and empirical evidence would suggest that being able to strike effectively and defend the hands is overwhelmingly the most influential factor amongst combat sports (generally speaking). Hence, Boxing ability, not boxers per say, is in my opinion the most useful and consistently effective striking tool to posses in combat sport.

 

[neonblack88]

I didn't have a choice. There is no Muay Thai where I live but I have noticed lately that a lot of dudes who do Muay Thai have bad habits and don't punch with power.

I think it's easier to go from boxing to muay thai.

Florian said he is 80% boxing and 20% muay thai. I've seen that proportion a lot recently eg Cain against Brock, Junior Dos Santos against anyone, Diaz and Noons, Edgar and Penn, etc.

I am actually happy to be learning boxing first instead of muay thai. I wish I had done it much, much ealier.

If thats what you want to do, do it. Your right it is easier going from boxing to Muay Thai, you will have an advantage in the hands over almost anyone you fight. So building a strong boxing base is a good idea. If you just start Muay Thai your going to be outclassed by everyone for a long time.

One of my mates is living in Thailand right now, he's won every one of his fights via KO, and he only fights Thais because no westerners want to fight him. He gave me the advice to do boxing before I moved onto Muay Thai, because like I said this will give you an advantage over most pure Muay Thai boxers with the hands and you will be able to compete with people on a higher level than you. Same goes for MMA, the people who just train MMA will most likely not have solid boxing skills.

I don't know where your from but he also told me not to bother learning Muay Thai in Australia. Because most places just don't teach it aswell as they do in Thailand. A lot of "Muay Thai" guys I've sparred are terrible with their hands, and dont even use real Thai Technique. I was sparring one of them, I put him in a Muay Thai clinch, and he said "damn you and your MMA grappling shit". :icon_lol:

Most MMA is boxing like you said, Muay Thai spends more time on elbows kicks and and knees than hands, because thats what scores more highly in Thai Boxing, punches are the lowest scored technique. The volume of kicks and knee's is MUCH MUCH higher in Thai boxing because theres no threat of a takedown.

Also think about this, if your already good with your hands, when you walk into a Gym filled with 20 students, your going to stand out. Especially in MMA where theres ALOT of new students, you want to stand out. You will be the new guy, but you will get better than most alot faster, coaches will notice you and help you out more because your not just trying to get basic techniques down. They will be more willing to give you technical instruction, and more willing to let you Spar and try advanced techniques.

Hope this helps!!

 

[neonblack88]

Woops for the TS aswel /\ /\ /\

 

[chino0503]

True When i was at Grudge fight gym i never heard anyone make fun of any martial art. Hell they were more curious than anything if someone knew something different.

Stuff like that makes me wonder about the people on here.

"when you were at grudge" or "when you were practicing self def drills with a hot chick" or "when you were taking pics of yourself doing the splits"

what other stories you got?

go back to tkd and kung fu you wanna be asian, bruce lee willis fake.

 

[chino0503]

I didn't have a choice. There is no Muay Thai where I live but I have noticed lately that a lot of dudes who do Muay Thai have bad habits and don't punch with power.

I think it's easier to go from boxing to muay thai.

Florian said he is 80% boxing and 20% muay thai. I've seen that proportion a lot recently eg Cain against Brock, Junior Dos Santos against anyone, Diaz and Noons, Edgar and Penn, etc.

I am actually happy to be learning boxing first instead of muay thai. I wish I had done it much, much ealier.

exactly!! we are in america people! its one of the leading countries when it comes to learning boxing. the level of instruction when it comes to boxing and muay thai in the states is soooooo damn far apart its not even funny

learning muay thai in america is like going to brazil to learn how to play american football. the truth is you're wasting you're time. you might as well try to get good at futbal cause the level of instruction is 20 notches higher.

america has tons and tons of boxing champs... how many muay thai champs do we have? why would you wanna learn muay thai from a country that cant even compete at the international level?

makes no fucking sense.... maybe some people have a comfort zone and dont like getting punched in the face. i dont know what it is. but as far as getting top notch instruction in muay thai, you're better off in foreign countries.

 

[Snubnoze707]

exactly!! we are in america people! its one of the leading countries when it comes to learning boxing. the level of instruction when it comes to boxing and muay thai in the states is soooooo damn far apart its not even funny

learning muay thai in america is like going to brazil to learn how to play american football. the truth is you're wasting you're time. you might as well try to get good at futbal cause the level of instruction is 20 notches higher.

america has tons and tons of boxing champs... how many muay thai champs do we have? why would you wanna learn muay thai from a country that cant even compete at the international level?

makes no fucking sense.... maybe some people have a comfort zone and dont like getting punched in the face. i dont know what it is. but as far as getting top notch instruction in muay thai, you're better off in foreign countries.

I agree to an extent, but at the same time lets be realistic. The people that make it to the very high level in Boxing or Muay Thai is a very small percentage. That high level isn't going to be attained by a Sherdog poster, I'm sorry to say. And I would disagree about the level of Muay Thai instruction as their are some high level gyms in the US and a lot of good ones, especially in the Bay Area. Its just that their is a lack of people that are completely dedicated to making it in the international level, or people even getting any opportunity to compete in the international level. Boxing isn't at a higher level in the US just because of the instruction, its because of the institution. There are A LOT more opportunities out there for Boxers.

 

[chino0503]

I agree to an extent, but at the same time lets be realistic. The people that make it to the very high level in Boxing or Muay Thai is a very small percentage. That high level isn't going to be attained by a Sherdog poster, I'm sorry to say. And I would disagree about the level of Muay Thai instruction as their are some high level gyms in the US and a lot of good ones, especially in the Bay Area. Its just that their is a lack of people that are completely dedicated to making it in the international level, or people even getting any opportunity to compete in the international level. Boxing isn't at a higher level in the US just because of the instruction, its because of the institution. There are A LOT more opportunities out there for Boxers.

true. but it is what it is... truth is you can get alot better at boxing in the states then muay thai.

not just cause of level of instruction but because boxing has a million more outlets and opportunities to compete and challenge yourself.

there is a good boxing intructor in every city of american. can you say that about muay thai?

honestly muay thai is like a trend in the states.... tons of people wanna learn but there isnt enough good teachers. you pointed out the bay, but thats only 1 corner of the united states.

 

[SKizzit**]

As for your assertion that Boxers do better than Nak Muays in combat sports in general, again, empirical evidence disagrees. Show me a fight where a boxer type striker outstrikes a MT type striker, and i'll show you 5 where the opposite result happens. Cantwell/ Stann 2, Aldo vs. Brown/ Gamburyan, Edgar/ Penn 2, Feijao/ Mo, etc etc ad nauseam.

First of all, in mma it isn't usually a good boxer vs a good MT fighter, it is whoever is the better striker period.

Also, Stann won 2 out of 3 with Cantwell, Aldo is a better all around striker than those guys, I'm sure he has much better boxing then them too. Edgar is also a boxing based striker.

 

[neonblack88]

First of all, in mma it isn't usually a good boxer vs a good MT fighter, it is whoever is the better striker period.

Also, Stann won 2 out of 3 with Cantwell, Aldo is a better all around striker than those guys, I'm sure he has much better boxing then them too. Edgar is also a boxing based striker.

You right. In MMA hardly anyone is a 'pure' MT striker or a 'pure' boxer. They train everything.

 

[ssullivan80]

You right. In MMA hardly anyone is a 'pure' MT striker or a 'pure' boxer. They train everything.

and are rarely "great at anything", other than MMA........ with some obvious exceptions..... I know, I just have a certain distaste for the constant comparisons.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

"when you were at grudge" or "when you were practicing self def drills with a hot chick" or "when you were taking pics of yourself doing the splits"

what other stories you got?

go back to tkd and kung fu you wanna be asian, bruce lee willis fake.

Well ill admit i dont got any cool stories like yours you know? i'm not a short skinny kid Whos taken a few boxing lessons and puts on this hilarious old school boxing persona strait out of a rocky movie. Add that with the fact you talk about arts you don't even practice (MT, karate,sanda etc,etc,) and your own sparring clips show you struggle to show basic boxing skills ( like keeping your hands up or your chin down.) and you got the ingredients for quite the character on here.

I actually like you chino you're very entertaining and not many posters like you on here can say the same.:icon_chee

I'm working on my online persona though... thinking of using alot of ebonics now and dumbing down my vocabularly.I've been watching alot of jersey shore now too for references. on how to act.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

NO. THERE IS ONLY ONE RIGHT ART AND IT IS, COINCIDENTALLY, THE ART THAT I CHOSE. ALL OTHER ARTS ARE INFERIOR WHY DON'T YOU REALIZE THIS ARRRRRRGH

Come at bro! come at me !

 

[thirteen]

Boxing or MT?
Try them both and go with the one you enjoy the most.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

or do one now and take up the other down the road

 

[thirteen]

Yeah I went from Kickboxing/MT to boxing.
When I was training kickboxing I liked the punching-part the most,
so I eventually thought "well I might as well learn the punching sport" and started boxing.

It's not like anyone is trapped into having to do one or the other for life unless they are insecure about the choice they made.

 

[Snubnoze707]

My gym has both Boxing and Muay Thai with a heavier focus on the boxing aspect, but I find myself feeling more natural when I'm able to mix kicks in with my boxing. Certain guys that have an advantage over me when we are just boxing I own when I'm able to throw kicks at them. I prefer a more balanced striking style similar to the Dutch style of Kickboxing.

 

[Steakeater**]

I new this thread was gonna be a stupid debate when I saw almost 100 posts.

That said, I'm going to go with boxing and/or dutch MT > Conventional MT and/or Unorthodox boxing (flatfooted upperbody based, liek James Toney)

 

[mrpopenfresh]

Considering the time span would be the same, learning how to use your hands during that time compared to learning how to use you hands, legs, knees and elbows will give two very different results in term of efficiency.

 

[CokeBoyz]

If you a goon like ur name says do Boxing.

 

[chino0503]

Well ill admit i dont got any cool stories like yours you know? i'm not a short skinny kid Whos taken a few boxing lessons and puts on this hilarious old school boxing persona strait out of a rocky movie. Add that with the fact you talk about arts you don't even practice (MT, karate,sanda etc,etc,) and your own sparring clips show you struggle to show basic boxing skills ( like keeping your hands up or your chin down.) and you got the ingredients for quite the character on here.

I actually like you chino you're very entertaining and not many posters like you on here can say the same.:icon_chee

I'm working on my online persona though... thinking of using alot of ebonics now and dumbing down my vocabularly.I've been watching alot of jersey shore now too for references. on how to act.

hey. go take some more pics doing the splits.

lets put it like this, i work on my craft every single day. i come on sherdog to make fun of guys just like you... i get a kick out of it.

i know with a few words.. i can get you worked up. have a good day