Boxing vs MT

[thirteen]

How many guys suggesting MT have wrestling experience?

Anyhow, whichever one you choose it's going to require some modification to make it better suited to fighting under MMA rules - just like all single system martials arts do.

 

[Connoisseur]

Well, you could make the argument that since Muay Thai actually includes throws, as well as striking from the clinch, it's better for MMA.

IMO, straight Thai/ kick Boxers can make a smoother transition to MMA than straight boxers.

Edit- Also, if you employ good footwork and use angles, you can get off on a wrestler with your kicks and beat up their legs/ body.

 

[thirteen]

Dude, is the above in response to my post?
If so I'm just interested to see if the guys suggesting MT are doing so with the benefit of wrestling experience (which in the current state of wrestling dominated MMA is important).
Don't care which one (boxing or mt) is better for MMA, it comes down to the person and how the apply it.

 

[BBQpork]

So would BJ Penn. And it's done alot for him. Except for when someone with eight sharp knives overwhelms his 2 choppers.

That's why Penn made Florian into a boxing enthusiast after giving him a boxing clinic?

 

[BBQpork]

Well, you could make the argument that since Muay Thai actually includes throws, as well as striking from the clinch, it's better for MMA.

IMO, straight Thai/ kick Boxers can make a smoother transition to MMA than straight boxers.

Edit- Also, if you employ good footwork and use angles, you can get off on a wrestler with your kicks and beat up their legs/ body.

Actually, no. Traditional Thai boxers have a bad time switching to MMA. A good greco roman wrestler would beat a thai boxer in the clinch 90% of the time. Heck, even Sanda fighters overpower thais in the clinch. Traditional thai relies too much on what can be a downfall in MMA. Boxing and dutch kick boxing are better styles for MMA.

 

[thirteen]

a boxer came to our Thai class and he had to stop because his legs had been kicked too much

Everybody gets their legs worked over when they aren't conditioned for it, not just boxers.
And anybody who says their legs didn't get punished is either lying or training some fake ass Mac Dojo MT.

And this is coming from a guy who moved from MT/kickboxing to boxing, so not hating on MT just stating how it is.

 

[BBQpork]

Muay Thai is far more versatile and before starting MMA you should familiarize yourself with as many techniques as possible, a boxer came to our Thai class and he had to stop because his legs had been kicked too much, in a real fight that guy would have been finished so i would suggest you start MT as it's not like you can't punch in MT or something.

Boxing focuses more punching which is essential in MMA. When there's takedowns you have to be cautious about kicking, and when that happens you have to work on your boxing. All of the top strikers, with the exception of Machida, have good boxing.

 

[Murmillo]

This is about the 8th Boxing vs Muay Thai thread I've seen in past two months. I think it's about time we just make one thread, sticky it, and let everybody ask their questions and make their arguements in there.

 

[Deleted member 256494]

So would BJ Penn. And it's done alot for him. Except for when someone with eight sharp knives overwhelms his 2 choppers.

I think these are two bad examples. Both GSP and Edgar use boxing as their primary striking art (even with GSP coming from Karate and later Muay Thai). They use boxing 70% to 80% of the time and use muay thai for the rest of their striking attacks.

With small gloves that's inevitable. Hands become so important.

For every Aldo type muay thai leg clinic you have 5 boxing knockouts a la Daley, Marquardt, Silva, Belfort, Shogun.

 

[ssullivan80]

Muay Thai is far more versatile and before starting MMA you should familiarize yourself with as many techniques as possible, a boxer came to our Thai class and he had to stop because his legs had been kicked too much, in a real fight that guy would have been finished so i would suggest you start MT as it's not like you can't punch in MT or something.

It's also not like you cant teach a boxer to check a kick, checking leg kicks is elementary MT and a boxer can just as easily learn to check a kick, as a MT fighter can learn to parry a jab.

Truth is, either MT or boxing make an excellent striking base. I would suggest you learn the one that best suits your physical ability and ultimately i would suggest the deciding factor between the two should be the coaching and training partners available. I would encourage the TS to visit and train at a couple different gyms, both boxing and MT, then choose the one where you feel the coaching and training partners are going to be the best for your overall advancement.

 

[Jaxx]

'In mma I lose about 75% of my arsenal if I do not want to risk any easy takedown.'

Quote from Duke Roufus on MMA.TV.

Something to ponder...

 

[Lionidas]

It's all about the instructors. Try both and see which instructor is better for you.
The boxing coach at my gym is much better and way more experienced than the Muay Thai coach. He was an Olympic alternate in 2004 Athens and definitely knows every aspect of Boxing.

Every class we work on punching technique, mits, timing, slipping, head movement. It's incredible how effective his training sessions are. His teaching technique is the main reason why I've become addicted to Western Boxing.

 

[slip slip hook]

I take it your a younger cat so I would suggest boxing for several reasons:

1. there are more high quality boxing gyms out there than muay thai gyms
2. boxing gyms tend to be cheaper
3.MT is a bit overwhelming at first, since you have to learn punches, elbows, knees, kicks and defending all those
4. I feel that boxing gyms in general, because of there large focus on younger fighters, do a better job of breaking down and giving instruction on key concepts like range, footwork, and fluidity of moveiment

i would say start in boxing, and after competing a bit in amateur fights, move on to muay thai

All that being said, if the MT gym has a boxing instructor with legit credentials just go there

 

[Connoisseur]

That's why Penn made Florian into a boxing enthusiast after giving him a boxing clinic?

Florian lost to Penn for a number of reasons. First, he's an inferior athlete. BJ was faster and hit much harder. Second, the moment he got a taste of BJ's power, he abandoned his MT skills and instead elected to hang onto BJ for dear life in search of a takedown that was never there.

The hands were obviously an area of Kenny's game that needed improvement. Especially in MMA, with takedowns and the smaller gloves, the hands become more important.

But Frankie was able to shut BJ down the same way GSP did- by being much more versatile. He threatened with the takedown, punched to the head & body, kicked low/ mid/ high, and moved around much better. No matter how talented BJ is, there's no way he could overcome such a diverse and focused attack with just his plodding headhunter, hands only approach.

 

[Connoisseur]

Actually, no. Traditional Thai boxers have a bad time switching to MMA. A good greco roman wrestler would beat a thai boxer in the clinch 90% of the time. Heck, even Sanda fighters overpower thais in the clinch. Traditional thai relies too much on what can be a downfall in MMA. Boxing and dutch kick boxing are better styles for MMA.

Of course Sanda & Greco Roman stylists would beat Thai's in the clinch grappling department, Sanda counts takedowns for points, and Greco is nothing but wrestling from the clinch.

But honestly, you can't really say that any one style is better for transitioning into MMA, because as someone else mentioned, all styles require adjustments and modifications on a case- by- case basis, to be effective in MMA.

Dutch style kickboxing does seem to be pretty successful in MMA, seeing as how successful guys like Crocop, Sem Schilt, Reem, Pat Barry, etc have been in MMA. Not world beater status, but the Dutch style is quite similar to MMA striking.

 

[Connoisseur]

I think these are two bad examples. Both GSP and Edgar use boxing as their primary striking art (even with GSP coming from Karate and later Muay Thai). They use boxing 70% to 80% of the time and use muay thai for the rest of their striking attacks.

With small gloves that's inevitable. Hands become so important.

For every Aldo type muay thai leg clinic you have 5 boxing knockouts a la Daley, Marquardt, Silva, Belfort, Shogun.

Now that's just a ridiculous thing to say. It's all integrated, you can't really allocate any specific percentage of strikes to boxing/ MT/ etc.

Frank Edgar has developed a very slick kickboxing game, which implements alot of movement (with his feet & head), as well as strikes with all 8 points. You can't just say that he's 80% boxer, 20% Nak Muay. That's ludicrous.

Same with GSP, his striking game is very integrated into his whole MMA game, is very crisp and complements his grappling very well. He uses kicks, knees, elbows, & punches.

And if you think Semtex, Anderson, or Shogun are boxers then you're retarded. Shogun KO'd Lyoto with an overhand right he used to counter Lyoto's typical counter to his leg kicks. If that's pure boxing, then I don't know what is kickboxing.

I think you misunderstand what Muay Thai is- the art of striking with 8 points. Interestingly enough, 2 of those points are the fists. You don't have to TKO someone with leg kicks to be a MT stylist.

 

[ssullivan80]

Of course Sanda & Greco Roman stylists would beat Thai's in the clinch grappling department, Sanda counts takedowns for points, and Greco is nothing but wrestling from the clinch.

But honestly, you can't really say that any one style is better for transitioning into MMA, because as someone else mentioned, all styles require adjustments and modifications on a case- by- case basis, to be effective in MMA.

Dutch style kickboxing does seem to be pretty successful in MMA, seeing as how successful guys like Crocop, Sem Schilt, Reem, Pat Barry, etc have been in MMA. Not world beater status, but the Dutch style is quite similar to MMA striking.

Great posts in this thread, i have enjoyed reading them.....

For reference though, Traditional Muay Thai does actually give points for sweeps, trips and throws out of the clinch as where Dutch, European Rules or K1 rules kickboxing does not.

That said, I think the Dutch style of kickboxing is also easier to transition to MMA because they put far more emphasis on western style boxing and the rules for European kickboxing force a faster and more rigorous pace. Traditional MT fights really are very clinch oriented and they spend a significant amount of time in the clinch. Thais clinching technique is far more complex and diverse than the dutch fighters and the use of elbows and the variations on their knee strikes is very prominent in there attack. Vs. The Dutch or EU style kickboxers clinch is much more offensive in the short term, since the clinch must remain active or a strike must immediately follow clinching, vs. The muay thai clinch can be much more defensive and guys will stay in the clinch and work posturing and control for much of the fight. If you watch a traditional MT fighter against an EU style kickboxer in K1 you will see that the Thai fighter regularly tosses, throws, trips them with little effort, but scores no points doing it, the dutch style just does not teach defending those clinch techniques because they dont score points. Not that the MT clinch is not offensive, it is quite the opposite, but in traditional MT fighters can remain in the clinch for much longer. The dutch style really is a clinch and strike, then attack coming out of the clinch..... which is better suited to MMA, in my opinion. It is a more offensively aggressive clinch, which in MMA makes sense. It is tough to control a guy in MMA for any length of time in a thai clinch with the Fence vs. ropes and TD's, unless they really dont know how to defend it (Franklin vs. Silva).

 

[BBQpork]

Now that's just a ridiculous thing to say. It's all integrated, you can't really allocate any specific percentage of strikes to boxing/ MT/ etc.

Frank Edgar has developed a very slick kickboxing game, which implements alot of movement (with his feet & head), as well as strikes with all 8 points. You can't just say that he's 80% boxer, 20% Nak Muay. That's ludicrous.

Same with GSP, his striking game is very integrated into his whole MMA game, is very crisp and complements his grappling very well. He uses kicks, knees, elbows, & punches.

And if you think Semtex, Anderson, or Shogun are boxers then you're retarded. Shogun KO'd Lyoto with an overhand right he used to counter Lyoto's typical counter to his leg kicks. If that's pure boxing, then I don't know what is kickboxing.

I think you misunderstand what Muay Thai is- the art of striking with 8 points. Interestingly enough, 2 of those points are the fists. You don't have to TKO someone with leg kicks to be a MT stylist.

Have you seen Shogun in his pride days? his striking was average at best, and he was a pure thai boxer. He was getting outstruck by Nakamura. Ever since coming to the UFC/leaving Chute boxe he has been working on his boxing. You could tell with the movement , timing, and defense.

Don't get me started with Anderson, he's one of the best boxers in MMA.

Semtex has good boxing/hands. Even a former pro boxer was impressed with his boxing.

 

[Deleted member 256494]

Now that's just a ridiculous thing to say. It's all integrated, you can't really allocate any specific percentage of strikes to boxing/ MT/ etc.

Frank Edgar has developed a very slick kickboxing game, which implements alot of movement (with his feet & head), as well as strikes with all 8 points. You can't just say that he's 80% boxer, 20% Nak Muay. That's ludicrous.

Same with GSP, his striking game is very integrated into his whole MMA game, is very crisp and complements his grappling very well. He uses kicks, knees, elbows, & punches.

And if you think Semtex, Anderson, or Shogun are boxers then you're retarded. Shogun KO'd Lyoto with an overhand right he used to counter Lyoto's typical counter to his leg kicks. If that's pure boxing, then I don't know what is kickboxing.

I think you misunderstand what Muay Thai is- the art of striking with 8 points. Interestingly enough, 2 of those points are the fists. You don't have to TKO someone with leg kicks to be a MT stylist.

ok, so Florian is retarded when he says his game is now 80% boxing and 20% muay thai?

Shogun said he worked on his boxing a lot for the rematch.

Semtex took tons of fools with straight-up boxing.

Yeah, I know it's all integrated. of course, MMA is MMA.

but what is extremely retarded is bringing up Frankie and GSP to counter the bj penn argument when they now use boxing as their primary striking art.

 

[ssullivan80]

Have you seen Shogun in his pride days? his striking was average at best, and he was a pure thai boxer. He was getting outstruck by Nakamura. Ever since coming to the UFC/leaving Chute boxe he has been working on his boxing. You could tell with the movement , timing, and defense.

Don't get me started with Anderson, he's one of the best boxers in MMA.

Semtex has good boxing/hands. Even a former pro boxer was impressed with his boxing.

Shogun's striking was better than average in Pride, but i still would agree he was a pretty pure Thai Boxer as far as MMA is concerned. What made Shoguns striking better, is the same thing that makes GSP's striking better, YOU HAVE TO BE CONCERNED WITH MORE THAN JUST THEIR STRIKING. In MMA being an effective striker is far more attainable when your opponent is concerned with more than just the striking. Truth is, i think Edgar's victories over Penn where made considerable easier because BJ never made him afraid of being taken down...... but Edgar made BJ concerned with the TD.....

As for Anderson being one of the best boxers in MMA, I dont know, he is undoubtedly one of the best strikers in MMA, but there are allot of guys i would say are better pure boxers than Anderson...... again, just speculation.

Semtex, does have pretty sharp hands!