Borderline legal Judo subs

[Groundfighter75]

The blue Gi / white Gi thing is ridiculous. In the BJA a blue Gi is acceptable in the UK.. but if you train at a BJC club in the UK, only white is allowed. I'd love to take an old traditionalist in the BJC along to a BJJ class full of camo-Gis and other wacky Gi's covered in patches and stuff lol

 

[georgejjr]

The blue Gi / white Gi thing is ridiculous. In the BJA a blue Gi is acceptable in the UK.. but if you train at a BJC club in the UK, only white is allowed. I'd love to take an old traditionalist in the BJC along to a BJJ class full of camo-Gis and other wacky Gi's covered in patches and stuff lol

I think you'd be disappointed - the traditionalists I know wouldn't care about what happens in BJJ, they'd say its a different art and they can do whatever they want in BJJ. For that matter, most won't say much if they're visiting other clubs - I've had traditionalists who I know only allow white visit my dojo, and at least while on the mats they kept their opinion to themselves ... perhaps because the tradition that the sensei gets to set the rules is an even stronger one than the white gi one (and actually the traditional gi's were a kind of tan anyway, as gi's weren't bleached white back then).

BTW, I agree with you on the gi color, it doesn't matter. In my dojo folks can wear whatever color (or combos like white pants-blue top) they want, so long as its CLEAN. A dirty gi means you get to go home and put it in the wash.

Have you ever seen pictures of Jimmy Pedro Jr's dojo? American, world champ and Olympic medalists ... he's got black and yellow (sort of looks like bumblebee's to my mind) gi's for the kids. Pretty sure he insists they keep them clean too though

 

[Auspex]

haha, look in the Kodokan book itself, look where Kano is teachin in Berlin. I realize that the supply chain in 1938 isn't what it is now, but guys are dressed all over the place and Kano didn't seem to butt hurt (in the picture).

Glorin, I appreciate that response. I apologize for jumping the gun. THe joys of reading reponses instead of being able to talk to folks in person!!

Anyway, jumped back on the judoforum last night...Forgot how much great info there was on there.

 

[Darkslide632]

I think you'd be disappointed - the traditionalists I know wouldn't care about what happens in BJJ, they'd say its a different art and they can do whatever they want in BJJ. For that matter, most won't say much if they're visiting other clubs - I've had traditionalists who I know only allow white visit my dojo, and at least while on the mats they kept their opinion to themselves ... perhaps because the tradition that the sensei gets to set the rules is an even stronger one than the white gi one (and actually the traditional gi's were a kind of tan anyway, as gi's weren't bleached white back then).

BTW, I agree with you on the gi color, it doesn't matter. In my dojo folks can wear whatever color (or combos like white pants-blue top) they want, so long as its CLEAN. A dirty gi means you get to go home and put it in the wash.

Have you ever seen pictures of Jimmy Pedro Jr's dojo? American, world champ and Olympic medalists ... he's got black and yellow (sort of looks like bumblebee's to my mind) gi's for the kids. Pretty sure he insists they keep them clean too though

I'm the same way when it comes to a gi. As much of a stickler as I can be about many other aspects of Judo, I couldn't really care less about the color of the gi.

 

[georgejjr]

I'm the same way when it comes to a gi. As much of a stickler as I can be about many other aspects of Judo, I couldn't really care less about the color of the gi.

Yeah, I'm the same way. For me, traditionalist means what Kano started with, not what Mifune added. For instance, we still allow illegal grips (didn't exist for Kano), its only an ippon if you bounce three of four times (ie if done on concrete you wouldn't get up), there are no non-combativity penalties (never existed before the IJF came and has really screwed up judo technique, as you have to throw every 20 seconds whether the opportunity is there or not).

Some of what we teach is things Kano moved away from later on in his life - such as leg locks (though of course I had to bring in a good BJJ instructor to teach them initially, as part of an exchange where I taught his BJJ club to throw better, he taught us (and me) much better ne-waza than I'd picked up from judo and wrestling.

Most of all, though we send students to tournaments to keep them honest (and now to submission and BJJ tournaments as well), we've moved away from judo competition as a focus, because it really doesn't have that much to do with judo anymore. BJJ tournaments in particular, and sambo if you can find them, are closer to traditional judo in their lack of restrictions than IJF judo. And that's just sad

Kano was a very interesting character; I think he'd be very unhappy with much that the IJF has done. Much of what is called traditional judo comes from the 1950's and 60's, rather than the first couple decades of the Kodokan.

 

[Auspex]

cool post, George.

very similar mindset

 

[Thrawn33]

Kano was a very interesting character; I think he'd be very unhappy with much that the IJF has done.

I disagree. I think he would be pissed beyond all understanding ("unhappy" being a huge understatement). I mean, how the hell is it possible to f!@# up an art that borrowed techniques from other styles when they were effective and focused on maximum efficiency?

 

[georgejjr]

I disagree. I think he would be pissed beyond all understanding ("unhappy" being a huge understatement). I mean, how the hell is it possible to f!@# up an art that borrowed techniques from other styles when they were effective and focused on maximum efficiency?

I agree whole heartedly with your correction

 

[YeahBee]

I think you'd be disappointed - the traditionalists I know wouldn't care about what happens in BJJ, they'd say its a different art and they can do whatever they want in BJJ. For that matter, most won't say much if they're visiting other clubs - I've had traditionalists who I know only allow white visit my dojo, and at least while on the mats they kept their opinion to themselves ... perhaps because the tradition that the sensei gets to set the rules is an even stronger one than the white gi one (and actually the traditional gi's were a kind of tan anyway, as gi's weren't bleached white back then).

BTW, I agree with you on the gi color, it doesn't matter. In my dojo folks can wear whatever color (or combos like white pants-blue top) they want, so long as its CLEAN. A dirty gi means you get to go home and put it in the wash.

Have you ever seen pictures of Jimmy Pedro Jr's dojo? American, world champ and Olympic medalists ... he's got black and yellow (sort of looks like bumblebee's to my mind) gi's for the kids. Pretty sure he insists they keep them clean too though

I'm the same way when it comes to a gi. As much of a stickler as I can be about many other aspects of Judo, I couldn't really care less about the color of the gi.

I am not doing this just to be obtuse I promise

but I don't see the point in gis that aren't white or blue, any judoka or bjjer should have atleast two gis anyway for comp

heck I rather have everybody wear white, some unity, feels more like a team

 

[georgejjr]

I am not doing this just to be obtuse I promise

but I don't see the point in gis that aren't white or blue, any judoka or bjjer should have atleast two gis anyway for comp

heck I rather have everybody wear white, some unity, feels more like a team

I think Jimmy Pedro's rational is that having team colors (black and yellow for his) promotes a kind of unity, and adds a bit of fun element into his club. I believe some European countries (Germany?) do the same thing, with team colors for their judo league competitions.

I've had students come from other styles, and wear whatever gi's they had - including some pretty colorful TKD gi's that rip pretty quickly. My general feeling is that its a non-issue. If someone sticks with judo they'll eventually end up with blue and white gi's (actually cheaper than other colors for double weave because of numbers produced), and if they don't stay I'd rather they remembered us for something else than a club that made them shell out a lot of money at the start for a gi they ended up not using much.

I think if Kano came back and looked at today's judo, the color of the gi's would not be one of his major concerns. It seems to draw a lot of attention, which is odd considering how many far more serious issues judo is wrestling (no pun intended) with.