Law Birthright Citizenship fight begins with Trump EO on Day 1

[Lead]

The big executive order on Day 1 from Trump related to birthright citizenship. Though the 14th amendment covers this, he's been after it's removal since his first term. I think this signals a big difference between his first and second term for what he might do.

The EO is guaranteed to reach the Supreme Court. Though there are some legal scholars with arguments the amendment doesn't guarantee citizenship, the mass majority do believe so and there is case law backing it to this point. Not to mention, the country has been going off that premise and there are currently citizens in the country due to being born here or their parents/ grandparents being born here.

What are your thoughts?
Do you agree or disagree with the idea of birthright citizenship?
Can an executive order change a constitutional amendment (hint: no)

Some reading:

ACLU sues over Trump order aimed at ending birthright citizenship by The Hill​

The Coming Assault on Birthright Citizenship by the Atlantic​

 

[Lead]

Reserved

 

[Lead]

Reserved

 

[Lead]

Reserved

 

[Lead]

Reserved

 

[deviake]

Agree with birthright citizenship. Not much else to say.

 

[Morning Star]

No, it's antiquated. It may have made sense in the time it was passed, but now it's just a way to cheat the system. You should only be a citizen if your Parent(s) were one, maybe if your Parent(s) have a green card and are positive contributors to the country.

Irregardless of my opinion I'm not optimistic it gets overturned.

 

[BKMMAFAN]

The Constitution can't be overruled by executive order. It would require a level of grotesque obsequiousness hopefully not possessed by Roberts and Gorsuch/Kavanaugh/or ACB.

 

[Fluffernutter]

14th amendment

 

[Lead]

So in terms of legality, I don't think the EO will survive once reaching the court. I don't expect the vote to be unanimous though. The legal arguments on it are over defining an invasion (mass group) entering the country to then state they can't become citizens, something like if during war-time if the Nazi's invaded the US, would their children be Americans. The other one is the specifics of "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" where someone born in the country to illegals isn't subject to US jurisdiction. I don't think either of those carry much weight. Trump should lose this case.

For whether we should have it, I think the benefits of birthright citizenship is it prevents a permanent state of secondary citizens and allows for better assimilation. To imagine if we didn't have this and congress still sat on the issue for the decades it has at times would've made for a much worse US imo.

 

[jk7707]

If it's affirmed in the Supreme Court that a President can make an executive order that nullifies a Constitutional Amendment this country is fucked.

 

[Lead]

The Constitution can't be overruled by executive order. It would require a level of grotesque obsequiousness hopefully not possessed by Roberts and Gorsuch/Kavanaugh/or ACB.

What do you think the split would be? I'd like to start at 7-2 as I don't really have any faith in Thomas or Alito anymore but maybe there are more who would bite. Definitely don't think Roberts would go with it, or Gorsuch. I don't really know enough about Kavanugh or ACB to make a guess.

 

[Sinister]

No, it's antiquated. It may have made sense in the time it was passed, but now it's just a way to cheat the system. You should only be a citizen if your Parent(s) were one, maybe if your Parent(s) have a green card and are positive contributors to the country.

Irregardless of my opinion I'm not optimistic it gets overturned.

You said yes and no in the same paragraph. Glad your opinion is irrelevant.

Birthright citizenship is a means of keeping the Government from being able to just revoke the citizenship of people they dislike. People like you just dont give a f*ck of a Government you favor does that to people YOU dislike.

It's hilarious that people who have made it part of their identity to not trust the Government would want the Governnent having this kind of power...but it's an endowment that xenophobia always explains among the working class.

 

[NoSmilez]

I don't mind but I rather get rid of dual citizenships.

 

[BKMMAFAN]

What do you think the split would be? I'd like to start at 7-2 as I don't really have any faith in Thomas or Alito anymore but maybe there are more who would bite. Definitely don't think Roberts would go with it, or Gorsuch. I don't really know enough about Kavanugh or ACB to make a guess.

I'd have to hope 7-2. It's a clear cut case for "strict textualists", or should be. Anyone born in the US is 'subject to' its jurisdiction per the 14th amendment unless one is the child of a diplomat, enemy foreign power, or (formerly) a member of an indian tribe. There is no rational legal argument for overturning birthright citizenship via anything but a constitutional amendment.

 

[MMAisGod]

I don't mind but I rather get rid of dual citizenships.

What's wrong with dual citizenship?

 

[Gamer2k4]

If you're born in America, you're an American. End of story.

 

[jrams]

I clearly don't understand executive orders because I don't see how one could challenge birth right citizenship (or citizenship in general). They are supposed to be directives of how the government operates, not laws of amendments. This should be struck down quickly for both violating the constitution and being a misuse of executive order.

What do you think the split would be? I'd like to start at 7-2 as I don't really have any faith in Thomas or Alito anymore but maybe there are more who would bite. Definitely don't think Roberts would go with it, or Gorsuch. I don't really know enough about Kavanugh or ACB to make a guess.

You don't think it will be per curiam?

 

[Morning Star]

You said yes and no in the same paragraph. Glad your opinion is irrelevant.

Birthright citizenship is a means of keeping the Government from being able to just revoke the citizenship of people they dislike. People like you just dont give a f*ck of a Government you favor does that to people YOU dislike.

It's hilarious that people who have made it part of their identity to not trust the Government would want the Governnent having this kind of power...but it's an endowment that xenophobia always explains among the working class.

Lmao at this tripe. I'd easily take 10 hard working, law abiding, American loving, tax paying immigrants of any color over 1 worthless waste of skin like yourself.

 

[Lead]

I clearly don't understand executive orders because I don't see how one could challenge birth right citizenship (or citizenship in general). They are supposed to be directives of how the government operates, not laws of amendments. This should be struck down quickly for both violating the constitution and being a misuse of executive order.



You don't think it will be per curiam?

Is it four that have to agree to hear it? And if not four, something like that would occur if it needs addressed?