Bigfoot Silva outclasses Fedor revisited

[usernamee]

they don't stop that fight inbetween rounds

Fedor comes out with a classic Fedor performance in round 2 and finishes exhausted Bigfoot

 

[sampuncher]

So you’re saying the victory was down to Bigfoot’s skills and not the fact that he outweighed Fedor by like 60lbs and was also juiced to the gills?

You can just come out and say Fedor had a very poor fight bro, it's ok, the rest of us know that's what happened in this fight.

 

[Berkowitz]

Yeah i watched this fight on my birthday and it broke my heart.

 

[Fesaine]

Fedor was just becoming a very wild striker by that point. Once you make a mistake that allows a BJJ black belt who outweighs you by 45 lbs to have top control, it’s going to be a rough night.

Fedor striking is always wild.

 

[VVarhead]

So when Fedor beats bigger guys he gets all the credit but when he loses to bigger guys theres no fault?

hmm.. weird.. seems like if you take risks and try to entertain your fans you actually are ... well liked?

 

[VitoCorleone]

Bigfoot won utilizing his skills though.

Watch Silva vs Hunt 1 (on "TRT") & then watch Silva vs Hunt 2 (off "TRT).

There is a noticeable decline in Silvas reaction time, speed, aggressiveness, and ability to take a punch in the second.
If it was just one of the things declining you could attribute it to age, damage, or anything else.
But all of the above significantly declining at once is a pretty good indication of how "TRT" enhanced Bigfoot's performance in the first fight.

Fedor vs NoSupplementsBigfoot goes just like Silva vs Hunt 2

 

[orca]

So you’re saying the victory was down to Bigfoot’s skills and not the fact that he outweighed Fedor by like 60lbs and was also juiced to the gills?

cain made bf look like a punching bag. bf outweight him too
fedor also lost to a small mw guy and is old and has alot of milage too
look what dc did to that mw? he throwed him around like a helpless kid

please stop u cant see how much skilled other guys than fedor
your blinded
its also a known fact pride fighters used steroids
why blame bf for using but not your heroes?

 

[moreorless87]

I love how, per Fedor fans, their hero suddenly became "old" by the time of Werdum fight.

The truth is, by 2010 Fedor finally stopped taking training seriously to pursue other opportunities like doing cheap C-rate movies. He began headhunting in every fight and started to seek that big right overhand instead of setting up combinations. His ground game deficiencies became even more glaring and Bigfoot Silva was able to exploit each and every one of those spectacularly.

I suspect part of it is that like a lot of big names(Anderson, BJ, Rampage, etc) he started to narrow his game latter in his career after fighting a few opponents well suited to that narrow game, looking to go out there and KO Sylvia and Arlovski early probably isnt the worst gameplan. He got a warning against Brett Rogers were getting too aggressive and declining grappling put him in a bad spot but ultimately won the same way.

Motivation wise as well I suspect the biggest issues were that he's really "made it" by that point, the M-1 contract meant he was going to be super rich plus he wasnt really facing "name" fighters anymore in SF, in retrospect Werdum and Bigfoot are big fights but at the time they werent really, not to the degree of the Affliction matches.

I think you do need to consider the way the fight actually went and not the legend thats grown up around it as well which is that Bigfoot totally dominated him from the bell, the same way people talk as if Hendo KOed him with the H-bomb. In reality he probably won the first round, his standup was looking a bit sloppy planting his feet and he got caught by a straight(which is I suspect part of what closed his eye in the end) but he was on offence most of the time and did reverse a bigfoot takedown.

That I think makes his form easier to explain, the idea he went from dominating to being dominated in a very short space of time isnt really true, he went from his early finish wins into a fight against Rogers that showed weakness but ultimately went his way into fights were he showed weakness but didnt get away with it. None of those SF loses were really defintive to me, on another day I wouldnt bank against him winning them the same way he could have lost to Rogers if tthat GnP land mayeb landed a bit more flush.

I do think you see that post SF he did recover some motivation, granted the wins after that arent massive but it does look like he's a bit less sloppy standing and more aware that his grappling isnt so effective anymore. I do suspect that Fedor could still have been a relevant fighter for awhile longer against big names but by the time of his comeback he's both less slick and really starting to show serious physical decline in speed/chin.

 

[BFoe]

Fedor has always been a wild striker, except for a few fights where he spent his camps in Holland (CroCop, Monson). But his speed and well roundness made it work in his prime.

Fedor striking is always wild.

No, this is not accurate. He definitely blitzed dudes throughout his career, but Fedor was not always some wild, brawling striker.
Fedor has a great right hand lead, but in later years led with his right almost exclusively. Watch Fedor-Nog 3 and you’ll see Fedor use his jab quite a bit to lead. Watch his Strikeforce run, and I don’t recall that he ever threw a single jab against Rogers, Werdum, Bigfoot, or Hendo. Fedor in his prime also worked hand traps very well, and used his strikes to set up grappling exchanges.
It is true that Fedor got away with some things because of his speed and timing in his younger days. As his reflexes declined, it was harder to get away with those things. Add to that the fact that his chin was never the same after the Bigfoot fight, along with injuries adding up which forced him to grapple far less, and that’s the basic recipe for post-prime Fedor. But it’s not fair to act like he was some wild man that tried to Zulu everyone the way he sloppily did to Dan Henderson.

 

[basedgodfedor]

Bigfoot didn't have a TRT exemption for any of his fights until he fought Mark Hunt in the UFC. Also Big foot had a legit condition with his acromegaly.

The first and only fight for which Bigfoot got a TRT exemption was the Hunt fight, where he then tested positive for elevated testosterone. He originally applied for a TUE for the Cain fight but didn't get it because there wasn't enough time for NSAC to evaluate his paperwork.


Below is the list of fighters that applied for a TRT exemption with the dates. Bigfoot only applied for a trt exemption in 2013 not 2011 when he fought Fedor

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...eived-therapeutic-use-exemptions-testosterone

So all we know is that Bigfoot tested positive for a steroid in 2008, and for elevated testosterone in the Hunt fight -- which is kind of funny because there's a good chance they wouldn't even have tested his actual testosterone level if it weren't for the TRT TUE, they probably just would have done the usual piss test.

"Prior to fighting Fedor Emelianenko in February 2011, Silva underwent a battery of tests ordered by the New Jersey Athletic Control Board, which wanted to ensure his condition (acromegaly) didn’t endanger him inside the cage." -- this makes me think that if he had elevated testosterone and/or PEDs in his system for the Fedor fight, those would have been found by this "battery of tests".

http://mmajunkie.com/2013/12/antoni...-post-fight-drug-test-stripped-of-50000-bonus

(10th paragraph down)

Bottom line is that Bigfoot passed the same tests Fedor did and then some. And Bigfoot was in the same condition for that fight as when Cormier and Cain walked right through him.

Wrong, look at weigh in pics. Cormier yes but not in the ufc

 

[fzoid4454]

So when Fedor beats bigger guys he gets all the credit but when he loses to bigger guys theres no fault?

You realize that's kind of stupid, right?

If a football defender is able to shut down Messi, despite Messi being faster and better at handling the ball, he'd get credit for it, because those aspects about Messi make it more difficult and less likely for someone to stop him.

If Messi beat him the next game in the open field for a goal, do you think people would look at Messi being faster and having ball skills as a reason to cast more blame at that defender?

 

[moreorless87]

No, this is not accurate. He definitely blitzed dudes throughout his career, but Fedor was not always some wild, brawling striker.
Fedor has a great right hand lead, but in later years led with his right almost exclusively. Watch Fedor-Nog 3 and you’ll see Fedor use his jab quite a bit to lead. Watch his Strikeforce run, and I don’t recall that he ever threw a single jab against Rogers, Werdum, Bigfoot, or Hendo. Fedor in his prime also worked hand traps very well, and used his strikes to set up grappling exchanges.
It is true that Fedor got away with some things because of his speed and timing in his younger days. As his reflexes declined, it was harder to get away with those things. Add to that the fact that his chin was never the same after the Bigfoot fight, along with injuries adding up which forced him to grapple far less, and that’s the basic recipe for post-prime Fedor. But it’s not fair to act like he was some wild man that tried to Zulu everyone the way he sloppily did to Dan Henderson.

Fedor at his best was IMHO the best front foot boxer ever in MMA for me, we've seen other fighters with strong defence but none of them have been nearly as aggressive as him. You look at the difference between Cruz backing up effectively vs TJ and then how much less effective he was on the front foot vs Cody.

It seems like many fans view stiff upright boxing as "technical" but thats moreso I think MMA training becoming quite self limiting, its part of why so many MMA fighters have trouble leading effectively because they lack the timing and ability to shift their head when coming forward.

I mean the stats don't lie do they? he had the lowest strikes taken per min of pretty much any fighter in MMA history during his prime and thats as an aggressove front foot fighter, Nog in the third figth who went toe to toe with Sergei could barely touch him in the first 10 mins.

 

[Greyscale]

I suspect part of it is that like a lot of big names(Anderson, BJ, Rampage, etc) he started to narrow his game latter in his career after fighting a few opponents well suited to that narrow game, looking to go out there and KO Sylvia and Arlovski early probably isnt the worst gameplan. He got a warning against Brett Rogers were getting too aggressive and declining grappling put him in a bad spot but ultimately won the same way.

Motivation wise as well I suspect the biggest issues were that he's really "made it" by that point, the M-1 contract meant he was going to be super rich plus he wasnt really facing "name" fighters anymore in SF, in retrospect Werdum and Bigfoot are big fights but at the time they werent really, not to the degree of the Affliction matches.

I think you do need to consider the way the fight actually went and not the legend thats grown up around it as well which is that Bigfoot totally dominated him from the bell, the same way people talk as if Hendo KOed him with the H-bomb. In reality he probably won the first round, his standup was looking a bit sloppy planting his feet and he got caught by a straight(which is I suspect part of what closed his eye in the end) but he was on offence most of the time and did reverse a bigfoot takedown.

That I think makes his form easier to explain, the idea he went from dominating to being dominated in a very short space of time isnt really true, he went from his early finish wins into a fight against Rogers that showed weakness but ultimately went his way into fights were he showed weakness but didnt get away with it. None of those SF loses were really defintive to me, on another day I wouldnt bank against him winning them the same way he could have lost to Rogers if tthat GnP land mayeb landed a bit more flush.

I do think you see that post SF he did recover some motivation, granted the wins after that arent massive but it does look like he's a bit less sloppy standing and more aware that his grappling isnt so effective anymore. I do suspect that Fedor could still have been a relevant fighter for awhile longer against big names but by the time of his comeback he's both less slick and really starting to show serious physical decline in speed/chin.

Yeah, all of it was already on display in Rogers fight. Rogers turned out to be largely a fluke and didn't have the right tools to exploit the holes that were perfectly visible at the time.

The Bigfoot fight, of course, wasn't the blowout from bell to bell. It was fairly competitive in the 1st. The blowout started when at the very beginning of the 2nd frame Bigfoot ducked under another telegraphed overhand right and took Fedor down.

Fedor didn't wake up when BJJ legend Hunt almost had him in americana.

 

[moreorless87]

Yeah, all of it was already on display in Rogers fight. Rogers turned out to be largely a fluke and didn't have the right tools to exploit the holes that were perfectly visible at the time.

The Bigfoot fight, of course, wasn't the blowout from bell to bell. It was fairly competitive in the 1st. The blowout started when at the very beginning of the 2nd frame Bigfoot ducked under another telegraphed overhand right and took Fedor down.

Fedor didn't wake up when BJJ legend Hunt almost had him in americana.

Which was I think a clear decline, Fedor at his best did not telegraph punchs like that against live opponents, sometimes he blitzed hurt opponents like Goodridge but planting his feet and swinging against Bigfoot wasnt typical for him.

I don't think Hunt was close with the americana, you need distance to finish that hold you can't do it belly to belly on the mat like that. I think that fight was more Fedor realising Hunt's striking was the threat, pushing hard for takedowns not caring too much if he potentially ended up on the bottom then waiting for Hunt to try and open space to finish those holds to escape.

I think you see latter in his career its not just skill decline but tactical decline, doing that kind of thing in the wrong situation against the wrong opponent.

 

[Eater of Souls]

I love how, per Fedor fans, their hero suddenly became "old" by the time of Werdum fight.

The truth is, by 2010 Fedor finally stopped taking training seriously to pursue other opportunities like doing cheap C-rate movies. He began headhunting in every fight and started to seek that big right overhand instead of setting up combinations. His ground game deficiencies became even more glaring and Bigfoot Silva was able to exploit each and every one of those spectacularly.

It was not suddenly, it had been happening. I agree with his not taking training seriously and seem to recall he had started - due to religious reasons - fasting during training camps and shit like that. Careful game-planning was gone. But you can see the transition from, say, his fights with Tim Sylvia and Arlovski where he has become a sloppy brawler. Gone is the guy who beat Nog from inside his guard and walked down CroCop.

And fighting the competition he did with his head not in the game, well, we all saw the results.

 

[Greyscale]

It was not suddenly, it had been happening. I agree with his not taking training seriously and seem to recall he had started - due to religious reasons - fasting during training camps and shit like that. Careful game-planning was gone. But you can see the transition from, say, his fights with Tim Sylvia and Arlovski where he has become a sloppy brawler. Gone is the guy who beat Nog from inside his guard and walked down CroCop.

And fighting the competition he did with his head not in the game, well, we all saw the results.

The guy who beat Nog was still hungry.

The one who showed up against Orlovski and Sylvia never really liked MMA as a sport (unlike Sambo) and was more interested in politics and movies.

 

[Eater of Souls]

The guy who beat Nog was still hungry.

The one who showed up against Orlovski and Sylvia never really liked MMA as a sport (unlike Sambo) and was more interested in politics and movies.

Yep.

And when you are fighting guys who can knock you into the next time zone you cannot be sloppy. Either in the cage/ring or in camp. Yet both were happening. What sucks is that new fans who never watched him in is prime seem to care about skills. These are probably the same ones who talk about Holly Holm's "great boxing" or some thing equally foolish.

 

[Greyscale]

Yep.

And when you are fighting guys who can knock you into the next time zone you cannot be sloppy. Either in the cage/ring or in camp. Yet both were happening. What sucks is that new fans who never watched him in is prime seem to care about skills. These are probably the same ones who talk about Holly Holm's "great boxing" or some thing equally foolish.

I was a fan until he became religious and joined United Russia and even met him once.

 

[Prince Nephilim]

Props to Fedor for even looking good in the moments that he did.

In the first round, his striking is ferocious. He also had an awesome reverse takedown on Bigfoot by making his base into a tree.

Bigfoot just checkmated him with one takedown in the opening of the round.

 

[Draxton]

I was there about three rows back.from.the cage. Sat next to rolles Gracie who was eating French fries like he was going to.the electric.chair. I met gsp, kenflo, weredum, pre bathroom hi jinx Brett rogers, Jorge Santiago, Sergei, arlovski...and yes I shook.hands and hugged Fedor on his way out of.the cage after the fight. This man is so special he shook everyone's hand and let us hug him while walking back from a beating. He had his moments in that fight. That crowd was screaming for Fedor. There were a lot.of.Russian celebrities and tons of Russian flags everywhere. It was electric.

Oh snap. I was there in the 11th row on the floor. I got a picture with Renzo. I’m not posting that one because I look like a douche. Lots of Russian “business men” around me. Very tense when he lost.