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BETA Academy owner explains ending relationship with Lloyd Irvin

From what I know, when Lloyd's team was still small in the area, there were not many blackbelts in the DMV in general. Yamasaki was probably the biggest school. Mike Moses, Nak, and Todd Margolis had recently gotten their black belts from Pedro. Then, shortly thereafter, all three decide to join TLI.

I don't know more details than that and I think it happened before I even started training.

I do know of other people that left teams in order to train with Lloyd. When I suggested a few years ago that he may have poached some talent, I was severely criticized. He sent his minions on to this forum to attack me, actually, for badmouthing their beloved team. I don't have any facts to add, and really I don't think it matters.

I've come to the feeling that if there is a team which is willing to offer you full time training with room and board, or better training, and you want become one of the best ever - well, its probably smart to take that offer. So even if Lloyd or Atos or anyone else are "poaching" students or talent or whatever, so what? In the long run it will elevate our sport, as the best people will keep getting better and better and the sport as a whole will continue to evolve.
 
I was the first one to comment on LI's response when he put it up on YouTube... bastard deleted my comments so fast lol
 
deadlizard said:
Don't want to take away that Lloyd is a major douche.

But I've heard from people that Ryan Hall is bi-polar like that.
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Devnull posts about how people are ripping LI and TLI without much info yet he rips on Ryan Hall and doesn
 
devnull said:
Ryan Hall has a pattern of getting angry and being verbally abusive. Countless examples I can list that he has done. For one he had a seminar in Ireland where he was being bested by a purple belt then when he got the better position turned it on and then verbally demeaned the guy afterwards for "going hard on him" which caused many of people to leave the seminar.

He broke his GF's finger during practice, I have heard from people there it was done on purpose after several time he said, "If you do that again I"ll break your thumb, and proceeded to do so. The guy has his issues, deep rooted issues, if he comes on here and lies or disputes what I have said he will only prove to me that he is just a bold face liar because they are absolute true. The Ireland thing can be verified with Ireland's Darragh O Conail from the Kumite. The guy is fucking nuts and you guys are revering him like he is a saint. He is one of the biggest hypocrites I know and holds deep rooted grudges and anger issues at that.
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Hey Donnie,
As you know I am Ryan's girlfriend. I'm sure you are writing this trying to protect me and not simply to make up information to damage Ryan's credibility for no reason other than the lies Lloyd has obviously told you about why Ryan left (as seen by the things you are saying). You of all people should know the real reason and the issues they were having for over a year before Ryan left the team so it would be helpful to everyone if you didn't make shit up.

You also know that Ryan never makes the first move towards anyone. He is always polite and nice until someone makes him do otherwise. The difference between Ryan and most people is that he does not tolerate douche bag behavior. Most DB's are not used to being called out for it and get offended when Ryan calls them out in front of others. For them, it's easier to blame Ryan for being a "big meanie" instead of accepting that they stepped over the line because that would mean they have to adjust their poor behavior.

Not being afraid to call someone out for being a DB or an asshole regardless of the consequences and who is watching may not always be the smartest thing politically because it does make you some enemies. But it doesn't make you bipolar, it makes you a real man.

As far as my thumb being broken. I'm sure you brought that up because you had my best interests at heart and not because you just wanted to slam him for accidentally injuring a training partner. Because no one here has ever seen anyone accidentally hurt during training...:rolleyes:

Yes, it's true that in the 6+ years I've trained with Ryan, that one time when Ryan was training for ADCC, I had to work in as a partner because he didn't have enough people to rotate in. Normally, we try not to train together when he is in competition mode since he's 50lbs heavier than me (about half my weight). And he accidentally broke my thumb. Well, we learned that I shouldn't be training with him during comp training because it's hard for him to go at the pace he needs and protect me from injury at the same time due to the size difference. Even though the break wasn't bad enough to keep me off the mats for even a single day, it was enough to show us that it wasn't a good idea to try to train hard together.

But this wasn't a big secret. I actually told everyone I talked to at the time about it because I thought it was so funny because he felt so bad about it. As a girlfriend I did what we girls do in that situation, and I milked his embarrassment over it for all I could get out if it, lol! I earned a lot of extra private jiu-jitsu lessons and many dinners out in his attempts to make up for accidentally hurting me. :)

But I do appreciate that you were so worried about my well-being that you tried to talk to me about it privately instead of going anonymously onto a message board to slam Ryan for it.

Edited to add: He didn't even break my thumb at 50/50 so I'm amazed that you were able to find people there who SAW it happen, lol! It happened while we were in NYC training at a friend's academy. But your facts were close.
 
Wow thank you for calling out Donnie. My thanks and respect for your statement
 
Irishspirit said:
Hey Donnie,
As you know I am Ryan's girlfriend. I'm sure you are writing this trying to protect me and not simply to make up information to damage Ryan's credibility for no reason other than the lies Lloyd has obviously told you about why Ryan left (as seen by the things you are saying). You of all people should know the real reason and the issues they were having for over a year before Ryan left the team so it would be helpful to everyone if you didn't make shit up.

You also know that Ryan never makes the first move towards anyone. He is always polite and nice until someone makes him do otherwise. The difference between Ryan and most people is that he does not tolerate douche bag behavior. Most DB's are not used to being called out for it and get offended when Ryan calls them out in front of others. For them, it's easier to blame Ryan for being a "big meanie" instead of accepting that they stepped over the line because that would mean they have to adjust their poor behavior.

Not being afraid to call someone out for being a DB or an asshole regardless of the consequences and who is watching may not always be the smartest thing politically because it does make you some enemies. But it doesn't make you bipolar, it makes you a real man.

As far as my thumb being broken. I'm sure you brought that up because you had my best interests at heart and not because you just wanted to slam him for accidentally injuring a training partner. Because no one here has ever seen anyone accidentally hurt during training...:rolleyes:

Yes, it's true that in the 6+ years I've trained with Ryan, that one time when Ryan was training for ADCC, I had to work in as a partner because he didn't have enough people to rotate in. Normally, we try not to train together when he is in competition mode since he's 50lbs heavier than me (about half my weight). And he accidentally broke my thumb. Well, we learned that I shouldn't be training with him during comp training because it's hard for him to go at the pace he needs and protect me from injury at the same time due to the size difference. Even though the break wasn't bad enough to keep me off the mats for even a single day, it was enough to show us that it wasn't a good idea to try to train hard together.

But this wasn't a big secret. I actually told everyone I talked to at the time about it because I thought it was so funny because he felt so bad about it. As a girlfriend I did what we girls do in that situation, and I milked his embarrassment over it for all I could get out if it, lol! I earned a lot of extra private jiu-jitsu lessons and many dinners out in his attempts to make up for accidentally hurting me. :)

But I do appreciate that you were so worried about my well-being that you tried to talk to me about it privately instead of going anonymously onto a message board to slam Ryan for it.
Click to expand...

BoomGoesTheDynamite.jpg
 
Irishspirit said:
Hey Donnie,
As you know I am Ryan's girlfriend. I'm sure you are writing this trying to protect me and not simply to make up information to damage Ryan's credibility for no reason other than the lies Lloyd has obviously told you about why Ryan left (as seen by the things you are saying). You of all people should know the real reason and the issues they were having for over a year before Ryan left the team so it would be helpful to everyone if you didn't make shit up.

You also know that Ryan never makes the first move towards anyone. He is always polite and nice until someone makes him do otherwise. The difference between Ryan and most people is that he does not tolerate douche bag behavior. Most DB's are not used to being called out for it and get offended when Ryan calls them out in front of others. For them, it's easier to blame Ryan for being a "big meanie" instead of accepting that they stepped over the line because that would mean they have to adjust their poor behavior.

Not being afraid to call someone out for being a DB or an asshole regardless of the consequences and who is watching may not always be the smartest thing politically because it does make you some enemies. But it doesn't make you bipolar, it makes you a real man.

As far as my thumb being broken. I'm sure you brought that up because you had my best interests at heart and not because you just wanted to slam him for accidentally injuring a training partner. Because no one here has ever seen anyone accidentally hurt during training...:rolleyes:

Yes, it's true that in the 6+ years I've trained with Ryan, that one time when Ryan was training for ADCC, I had to work in as a partner because he didn't have enough people to rotate in. Normally, we try not to train together when he is in competition mode since he's 50lbs heavier than me (about half my weight). And he accidentally broke my thumb. Well, we learned that I shouldn't be training with him during comp training because it's hard for him to go at the pace he needs and protect me from injury at the same time due to the size difference. Even though the break wasn't bad enough to keep me off the mats for even a single day, it was enough to show us that it wasn't a good idea to try to train hard together.

But this wasn't a big secret. I actually told everyone I talked to at the time about it because I thought it was so funny because he felt so bad about it. As a girlfriend I did what we girls do in that situation, and I milked his embarrassment over it for all I could get out if it, lol! I earned a lot of extra private jiu-jitsu lessons and many dinners out in his attempts to make up for accidentally hurting me. :)

But I do appreciate that you were so worried about my well-being that you tried to talk to me about it privately instead of going anonymously onto a message board to slam Ryan for it.

Edited to add: He didn't even break my thumb at 50/50 so I'm amazed that you were able to find people there who SAW it happen, lol! It happened while we were in NYC training at a friend's academy. But your facts were close.
Click to expand...

LOL, first off I never mentioned where it happened but that is tricky of you to try and bait me, first off congrats on your performance in Europe good stuff. Second, you are his GF so of course you are going to be on his side no matter what.

What I SAW happen was how Ryan berates his students when coaching, as well as KBEVOLVE with him treating you the same way IN PERSON. So lets stop putting words in peoples mouth and nice try, not DONNIE, lolz....
 
devnull said:
LOL, first off I never mentioned where it happened but that is tricky of you to try and bait me, first off congrats on your performance in Europe good stuff. Second, you are his GF so of course you are going to be on his side no matter what.

What I SAW happen was how Ryan berates his students when coaching nothing else, as well as KBEVOLVE with him treating you the same way IN PERSON. So lets stop putting words in peoples mouth and nice try, not DONNIE, lolz....
Click to expand...

I believe you said that you heard from MULTIPLE people who saw it happen. The thing is, we were training after regular hours by ourselves with only his friend who owned the academy. That's why I was working in.

So you are lying or they are.
 
devnull said:
Second, you are his GF so of course you are going to be on his side no matter what.
Click to expand...

I love it. "Look, honey, you're just a little lady, so let the men on the internet decide when you're being abused."
 
anaconda said:
It wasn't hard to guess which team has grown lately with some high level lower belt competitors (lol what a weird sentence).

But you forgive Lloyd for his actions, but somehow Atos is evil for taking purple belts? Pretty hypocritical.
Click to expand...

I never said Atos was "evil" for anything. The term "poaching" is derogatory so when someone insinuated that Lloyd was poaching students I corrected them on what really went down and highlighted what a true example of poaching is.

anaconda said:
I do know of other people that left teams in order to train with Lloyd. When I suggested a few years ago that he may have poached some talent, I was severely criticized. He sent his minions on to this forum to attack me, actually, for badmouthing their beloved team. I don't have any facts to add, and really I don't think it matters.

I've come to the feeling that if there is a team which is willing to offer you full time training with room and board, or better training, and you want become one of the best ever - well, its probably smart to take that offer. So even if Lloyd or Atos or anyone else are "poaching" students or talent or whatever, so what? In the long run it will elevate our sport, as the best people will keep getting better and better and the sport as a whole will continue to evolve.
Click to expand...

Generally speaking, I agree with you but there's where the martial art aspect and the sport aspect diverge. If you want to talk about master-student loyalty then poaching will be a problem to many. As far as betterment of the sport then poaching is no different than free agency in professional sports. IMO, poaching isn't akin to stealing because a student isn't property. They are people that have free will and can choose whether or not to leave.

If a coach knows that he has a top-notch competitor of a student and that he cannot provide the environment to take that student to their full potential then the honorable thing will be to let him go where he can become his best. The philosophical objection that most people have is that this artificially makes the team with the most resources (i.e. money) the best while smaller academies just serve as feeders for the bigger ones that can afford fight houses, etc. For professional sports like MMA it isnt a problem for a fighter to leave, say Bellator, and go to the UFC (unless you're Bjorn Rebney). In jiu jitsu, an amateur sport / martial art, where money is just now becoming a factor it's hard for people to reconcile the power of $$$ over honor and loyalty.
 
I don't think that devnull is Donnie but if he is then I have more respect for him being a Linux geek.
 
j0ch1n said:
I love it. "Look, honey, you're just a little lady, so let the men on the internet decide when you're being abused."
Click to expand...

That's not what he said at all. He's saying that her opinion is biased because of her connection to Ryan.

Which, given his refusal to disclose his own relationship to TLI, is incredibly ironic.
 
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