BETA Academy owner explains ending relationship with Lloyd Irvin

[KGB256]

I can't think of many things that are more stupid than having the letter of your fraternity branded on your chest!

It's more common among black fraternities, some seeing it as linking them to their ancestors who may have been branded during slavery, while others simply see it as a way of declaring lifelong devotion to their frat brothers.

I consider it about as silly as frat or sorority tattoos, but then again I have no tattoos or piercings. My father had one USMC tattoo, and so I guess I've seen tats as something you get to express strong devotion...the folks who got cartoon character tats in high school just always seemed silly to me.

 

[BizarroPutin]

ORLY?!

Black Belts
Todd Margolis - Pedro Sauer black belt who left on his own accord and joined TLI
Mike Moses - Yamasaki (brown belt when he left, I think) left on his own accord and joined TLI
Jared Weiner - Left Maxercise as either purple or brown and joined TLI on his own accord
Mike Fowler - I've heard that that early on he was Yamasaki but left either at white or blue belt
Jonathan Torres - RGDA brown belt who left because he wasn't getting competitive support from all but one person on his then team
Jim Harbison - RGDA purple belt who moved to Florida and became an ATT brown belt then was invited to Camp Springs by JT when he was thinking about moving back home.
DJ Jackson - Home-grown from white to black
Mike Easton - Home-grown from white to black
Nyjah Easton - Home-grown from white to black
Nakapan - Leo Dalla black belt under the same lineage as Lloyd. Lloyd didn't poach him, he just had a more competition-based team than Leo Dalla. Leo Dalla, Lloyd's master has even competed under the Lloyd Irvin banner a couple of times.

check your facts, Margolis, Moses and Nakapan all joined TLI right after getting a BB from Pedro Sauer.

also, didn't you just prove my point?

look, I honestly don't have any problem with people switching camps to find a better fit. people come and go from my club and we don't judge, it's fine. I like training with guys from other clubs and exchanging knowledge.

I just can't stomach the accusations of disloyalty coming from Lloyd, given the history of his team

 

[anaconda]

ORLY?!

Black Belts
Todd Margolis - Pedro Sauer black belt who left on his own accord and joined TLI
Mike Moses - Yamasaki (brown belt when he left, I think) left on his own accord and joined TLI
Jared Weiner - Left Maxercise as either purple or brown and joined TLI on his own accord
Mike Fowler - I've heard that that early on he was Yamasaki but left either at white or blue belt
Jonathan Torres - RGDA brown belt who left because he wasn't getting competitive support from all but one person on his then team
Jim Harbison - RGDA purple belt who moved to Florida and became an ATT brown belt then was invited to Camp Springs by JT when he was thinking about moving back home.
DJ Jackson - Home-grown from white to black
Mike Easton - Home-grown from white to black
Nyjah Easton - Home-grown from white to black
Nakapan - Leo Dalla black belt under the same lineage as Lloyd. Lloyd didn't poach him, he just had a more competition-based team than Leo Dalla. Leo Dalla, Lloyd's master has even competed under the Lloyd Irvin banner a couple of times.


Brown Belts
Keenan Cornelius - Left BJ Penn's in Hawaii in search or harder competitive training as a purple belt on his own accord AND WITH THE SUPPORT OF HIS FATHER TOM CALLOS
Jordon Schultz, Alec Baulding and Daren Roberts - Had a falling out with Alliance head coach Jacare Cavalcanti as brown belts. Jordon contacted Lloyd on his own accord and Lloyd invited him to check the program out. Alec and Daren had their own academy in the Atlanta area and decided to align with TLI most likely through Jordon's recommendation

If you're too immature to understand that people at all belt levels leave their academies for various reasons all of the time then I don't know what to tell you. Sure, Lloyd does have an open door policy to serious competitors who want to join a highly competitive team but he didn't poach medal winners like a certain team in San Diego did to IBJJF medalists from Saulo's, Alliance and Gracie Barra. As of late he has become a "farm team" of sorts because people have left academies where they could have gotten what they needed but went to what looked like greener pastures. Poaching a competitor is when you target them and only them. If you wave a carrot and they come to you then it isnt poaching.

How did Atos poach students? Do you have a source for this information?

 

[Murdoch]

You know it's funny, when this guy made his account on the same day the rape story broke, and most of his posts were just blindly defending Lloyd, a lot of us accused him of being part of the team. It's well known that a lot of businesses and public figures have people go around online and post things supporting them. There is also word that Lloyd has at least one person whose job it is to do that. And then I pointed out that his IP address traces to either Baltimore or DC (he claimed he was from Germany).

Devnull has denied being affiliated with TLI. This is the first time I've heard him essentially admit it, calling the team "we." Interesting, no?

It is indeed interesting. Dev care to explain?

 

[devnull]

It is indeed interesting. Dev care to explain?

Yes, I never claimed I was from Germany. I merely responded with a German quote when someone asked me is English my second language, which it is and also furthermore responded that its no one business what my language is.

Ever since then people have been on a mission to figure out who I am like it will bring some sort of validity or make them feel better. Part of remaining silent on answering specific questions goes to my anonymity. For instance how hard would it be to identify someone who speaks German who trains with TLI, not hard if that was the case. I have also said it does not matter what my affiliation is, I said I support Master LLoyd and TLI to the fullest and stand strongly behind them. So if you want to take that as I train there, let that be your answer but I am not giving out additional information about myself.

 

[Alonbenav]

Yes, I never claimed I was from Germany. I merely responded with a German quote when someone asked me is English my second language, which it is and also furthermore responded that its no one business what my language is.

Ever since then people have been on a mission to figure out who I am like it will bring some sort of validity or make them feel better. Part of remaining silent on answering specific questions goes to my anonymity. For instance how hard would it be to identify someone who speaks German who trains with TLI, not hard if that was the case. I have also said it does not matter what my affiliation is, I said I support Master LLoyd and TLI to the fullest and stand strongly behind them. So if you want to take that as I train there, let that be your answer but I am not giving out additional information about myself.

For your own sake, let's just establish that you train at TLI, because if you don't and you're dickriding him and his team THIS hard, spending THIS much time lazily and incoherently defending them, then you have mental problems, man.

 

[illbert]

check your facts, Margolis, Moses and Nakapan all joined TLI right after getting a BB from Pedro Sauer.

I'm not EXACTLY sure of how the Mike Moses thing went down but as a brown belt he was also a Muay Thai instructor at Yamasaki. Maybe he just taught striking there while training BJJ with Pedro. Whatever. He left on his own and wasn't recruited.

Nakapan, in the past, has called himself a Leo Dalla black belt and a TLI representative. Whatever his past is with Sauer is news to me but the fact remains that he still wasn't poached.

also, didn't you just prove my point?

No. Your point was that he preyed upon competitors from other teams to join his team. My counterpoint is that he just had an open door and people who happened to fall out with their teams joined his. There's a monumental ethical difference between luring someone else's students and having an academy that people voluntarily switch to.

look, I honestly don't have any problem with people switching camps to find a better fit. people come and go from my club and we don't judge, it's fine. I like training with guys from other clubs and exchanging knowledge.

I just can't stomach the accusations of disloyalty coming from Lloyd, given the history of his team

When Ryan Hall parted ways unhappily with Lloyd I never heard of Lloyd himself make any accusations of disloyalty. When Mike Fowler made the move to Hawaii and switched affiliations to a more accessible team I never heard of Lloyd making accusations of disloyalty. If you're talking about Nakapan then any disloyalty talk must be based on his assertion that when Nakapan left he promised that he would not defame the organization in any way but then links up with Tom Callos and does the opposite.

How did Atos poach students? Do you have a source for this information?

Well geez?! Out of ALL of the BJJ academies in San Diego it's AMAZING how you picked them out! . I'm not going to drag people's names into this but when Atos decided to have a fight house and then all of a sudden three purple belt IBJJF medalists from Ribeiro's, Gracie Barra Del Mar, and Alliance NYC join the team--well you can put the pieces together. I was told by someone close to one of the recruits that they were offered a job with a certain high-level black belt and an opportunity to train their full-time at no cost. For another recruit, things didn't work out and, from what I hear, he was not as warmly received from his original academy.

 

[deadlizard]

Ryan Hall has a pattern of getting angry and being verbally abusive. Countless examples I can list that he has done. For one he had a seminar in Ireland where he was being bested by a purple belt then when he got the better position turned it on and then verbally demeaned the guy afterwards for "going hard on him" which caused many of people to leave the seminar.

He broke his GF's finger during practice, I have heard from people there it was done on purpose after several time he said, "If you do that again I"ll break your thumb, and proceeded to do so. The guy has his issues, deep rooted issues, if he comes on here and lies or disputes what I have said he will only prove to me that he is just a bold face liar because they are absolute true. The Ireland thing can be verified with Ireland's Darragh O Conail from the Kumite. The guy is fucking nuts and you guys are revering him like he is a saint. He is one of the biggest hypocrites I know and holds deep rooted grudges and anger issues at that.

Don't want to take away that Lloyd is a major douche.

But I've heard from people that Ryan Hall is bi-polar like that.

 

[OldGuyBjjATL]

Just because a Jury found them guilty doesn't mean shit. How many people are innocent or convicted by juries on racism or wrong shit in prison. Remember that movie Hurricane about Rubin Carter?? Just because a Jury convicts you of murder does not mean you committed murder.

WITH THAT SAID, I am not saying they were all not guilty or guilty we don't know the jury just found it to be that way.

WOW! COGNITIVE DISSONANCE MUCH?
Seriously man. So you are really either LI, or you really do not understand how the legal system works, or that dissonance thing.

The "man", had his pants down, the vicitm had been held down, raped, sodomized while in LI's presence, he tried to get in on the action, but couldn't get a woodrow. His compatriots gang raped a woman. Violated a human being in the worst, most vile way possible, he tried to participate; and you can't see how he's as bad as the guys who could get a hard on?

Again. Per the court, he would have absolutely been found guilty if there was a lesser charge that could account for the fact that he could not get a hard on.

 

[dokomoy]

How did Atos poach students? Do you have a source for this information?

Atos definitely poaches students. The Mendes bro's approached one of my teammates about jumping ship, offering to give him a place to live if he did. Chris Visentin(formerly from alliance nyc) was given the same offer and took them up on it(then left).

By the way, Lloyd tried to poach another one of my teammates for the medal chasers(I'm omitting my teammates names because they didn't take LI or the Mendes's offer and are still at the same school)

 

[ElKarlo]

Don't want to take away that Lloyd is a major douche.

But I've heard from people that Ryan Hall is bi-polar like that.

Which is prolly why be said in his open letter to not put worship him

 

[devnull]

WOW! COGNITIVE DISSONANCE MUCH?
Seriously man. So you are really either LI, or you really do not understand how the legal system works, or that dissonance thing.

The "man", had his pants down, the vicitm had been held down, raped, sodomized while in LI's presence, he tried to get in on the action, but couldn't get a woodrow. His compatriots gang raped a woman. Violated a human being in the worst, most vile way possible, he tried to participate; and you can't see how he's as bad as the guys who could get a hard on?

Again. Per the court, he would have absolutely been found guilty if there was a lesser charge that could account for the fact that he could not get a hard on.

I love your detailed account of what really happened. So were you there 20years ago? Your account / testimonial of what happened is garbage.

Also other people have said on here I think lawyer types not sure that if he was going to allegedly rape someone but could not he would still be charged with participating in a crime, kind of like the accessory to murder in likeness.

 

[LP29]

ORLY?!

Black Belts
Todd Margolis - Pedro Sauer black belt who left on his own accord and joined TLI
Mike Moses - Yamasaki (brown belt when he left, I think) left on his own accord and joined TLI
Jared Weiner - Left Maxercise as either purple or brown and joined TLI on his own accord
Mike Fowler - I've heard that that early on he was Yamasaki but left either at white or blue belt
Jonathan Torres - RGDA brown belt who left because he wasn't getting competitive support from all but one person on his then team
Jim Harbison - RGDA purple belt who moved to Florida and became an ATT brown belt then was invited to Camp Springs by JT when he was thinking about moving back home.
DJ Jackson - Home-grown from white to black
Mike Easton - Home-grown from white to black
Nyjah Easton - Home-grown from white to black
Nakapan - Leo Dalla black belt under the same lineage as Lloyd. Lloyd didn't poach him, he just had a more competition-based team than Leo Dalla. Leo Dalla, Lloyd's master has even competed under the Lloyd Irvin banner a couple of times.


Brown Belts
Keenan Cornelius - Left BJ Penn's in Hawaii in search or harder competitive training as a purple belt on his own accord AND WITH THE SUPPORT OF HIS FATHER TOM CALLOS
Jordon Schultz, Alec Baulding and Daren Roberts - Had a falling out with Alliance head coach Jacare Cavalcanti as brown belts. Jordon contacted Lloyd on his own accord and Lloyd invited him to check the program out. Alec and Daren had their own academy in the Atlanta area and decided to align with TLI most likely through Jordon's recommendation

If you're too immature to understand that people at all belt levels leave their academies for various reasons all of the time then I don't know what to tell you. Sure, Lloyd does have an open door policy to serious competitors who want to join a highly competitive team but he didn't poach medal winners like a certain team in San Diego did to IBJJF medalists from Saulo's, Alliance and Gracie Barra. As of late he has become a "farm team" of sorts because people have left academies where they could have gotten what they needed but went to what looked like greener pastures. Poaching a competitor is when you target them and only them. If you wave a carrot and they come to you then it isnt poaching.

Nakapan is a Pedro Sauer BB, not a Leo Dalla BB. Lloyd is a Dalla BB.

 

[TeeptotheHead]

I think Nak got his BB from Pedro Sauer.

 

[illbert]

WOW! COGNITIVE DISSONANCE MUCH?
Seriously man. So you are really either LI, or you really do not understand how the legal system works, or that dissonance thing.

The "man", had his pants down, the vicitm had been held down, raped, sodomized while in LI's presence, he tried to get in on the action, but couldn't get a woodrow. His compatriots gang raped a woman. Violated a human being in the worst, most vile way possible, he tried to participate; and you can't see how he's as bad as the guys who could get a hard on?

Again. Per the court, he would have absolutely been found guilty if there was a lesser charge that could account for the fact that he could not get a hard on.

As I've mentioned in an earlier post: the fact that the only charges available were First Degree Rape or Not Guily makes me raise an eyebrow. That either shows that the prosecutor was a complete MORON for not adding additional lesser charges (possible) or something about the evidence and the testimony admitted in the court room was not effectively relayed in the newspaper articles (most likely). IIRC one juror wanted to give him the rape charge but the others didnt. What swayed the super-majority is assumed to be the flaccid dick argument. In the absence of further information the only fair thing to say is "I don't know" and let the court's ruling stand. Instead, the internet wants to play People's Court and render their own verdict.

Atos definitely poaches students. The Mendes bro's approached one of my teammates about jumping ship, offering to give him a place to live if he did. Chris Visentin(formerly from alliance nyc) was given the same offer and took them up on it(then left).

By the way, Lloyd tried to poach another one of my teammates for the medal chasers(I'm omitting my teammates names because they didn't take LI or the Mendes's offer and are still at the same school)

The fact that Anaconda identified Atos immediately out of the dozens of other schools in San Diego at the mere hint of "poaching" shows that he knew how they get down. Late last year I saw a certain high caliber brown belt from Texas working and training at the Mendes Bros academy. From what I see, he seems to be back in Texas but for a time he was competing under Atos after having trained in Texas up until the Mendes Bros came to the OC.

As far as Lloyd trying to poaching your teammate, are you sure Lloyd came up to him first? I found it odd that Maldonado was training in Camp Springs less than a month after Keenan beat him at the Worlds so that lead me to believe that he sought out the team and not the other way around.

 

[OldGuyBjjATL]

I live in Kennesaw, and yes, the term "ghetto" is certainly a racially loaded term. When people in the suburbs use terms like "ghetto" and "thug," that almost certainly refers to black, inner city people. I'm not accusing you of being racist, nor do I think the other poster was, but you should probably be more considerate of the language you use. If she were a white woman, I doubt "ghetto queen" would have been mentioned. And, for the record, "race card" is also a very loaded term that implies that racism doesn't exist and is used merely as an excuse. Do some people make erroneous claims of racism to justify their own behavior? Sure, but there is plenty of evidence available to suggest that we are a very racially unequal society and such claims should never be immediately dismissed by saying something stupid like "race card," as if being a member of a historically oppressed group is an ace up the sleeve or a get out of jail free card. Again, I'm not accusing you of anything, just challenging you to think a bit more carefully about the language you use.

But yeah, I think we can all agree that she doesn't appear to be a very good person.

I appreciate your post very much. Thank you for the thought, rational, and damn well thought out response.

Here is where I respectfully differ with you however. I live in the suburb's of Atlanta, in Sandy Springs specifically. To make the "case" against my language "worse"; my subdivision surrounds a private club and golf course. So it is not hard for my terminology to be characterized as "racist". The reality however is that in my view, "ghetto" is "ghetto". It doesn't matter who's ghetto, be it white ghetto, black ghetto, brown ghetto, etc.

The word ghetto is an old world. It's never been officially assigned as a word that means "black". Logically, that means some people have chosen to assign a racial connotation to the word. I didn't do that. I did not inject race into the word. In context of this conversation, someone in this discussion chose to view it in a seemingly racist lens. Someone else inject a racial over tone.

I make the comment with no pretense of color. Which is my point. I make no presuppositions on race, ever. Nor should we as a people ever. I get it that people are going to do that; however, I do not.

 

[OldGuyBjjATL]

I would like to put one more thing out there. I notice that when somebody says something that possibly makes sense (like I think I did about Nak) and goes against the "norm" there are not many comments on that post. It kind of gets skipped over so that everyone can keep the hate going. And while I am putting it out there, I might as well put this one out there too. Jiu-Jitsu brings in people from all walks of life. Especially in the MMA scene. Have you ever become friends with someone at your academy, maybe someone who looked like a "tough" guy but didn't act it, and then a year or two down the road after being pretty close to them for that time, found out they had a something really bad in their history from forever ago, but since you know them and they are nothing like what they were before you overlook it? I once worked for the coolest guy and then found out he used to work for the Sheriff's Department and had robbed some jewelry stores but by then we were good so I just overlooked it. I think too much is being placed on what happened 20 or so years ago and should be focused more on the two guys who are really horrible, awful, despicable people, which by the way I don't think can be taught by someone to be that way.

So far, little has been put out in the vein of LI defense that is rational and/or logical. And to that point, and using your own words; everything that is rational and logical in regards to the points made against LI's behavior, are absolutely glossed over by LI and his people here on this forum.

Furthermore, TLI does little in the way of bringing people "together". In fact, his entire marketing schtick is to separate, not bring together.

 

[OldGuyBjjATL]

Going through Nakapan statement in my head there are just to many inconstancies for me to think that he is telling the whole truth:


Nakpan said:

"Lloyd has attempted to intimidate me, even going so far as to bring a gun to a business meeting to encourage my silence and continued cooperation"


Lloyd said:

"I was able to get a concealed carry permit and do not leave my house with my glock!"


Now please fill me in on something you guys... Those of you who have a CCW Permit llike Balto... Are you guys packing most of the time?.. Do all of you close friends and family know you are CCW? I would think that would be the case

So they way I look at it Nakapan must of known through his close relationship with Lloyd, that Lloyd is always packing... So why then would Nakapan make out that Lloyd went out of his way, to carry a gun to a business meeting... for the sole purpose of intimating him?.. When Nakapan would have been in countless business meetings where Lloyd was packing?

That looks like a blatant twist of the truth

I'm a huge gun guy. And I do carry, when appropriate.
If I'm going into a business meeting, hell no.

I do not carry a gun to feel like a bad ass, or because it makes me feel good. A gun is a tool. There are times when its appropriate, and there are times when it is not. Taking one into a meeting is almost never appropriate. Even if the "meetings" are contentious. I sit in tense business meetings daily, and there's no need for a firearm. (that statement should have been sarcasm; but since apparently one was "displayed" in a meeting by a man who has a past history of gang rape, and openly practices a thug lifestyle, its a relevant statement)

 

[anaconda]

Well geez?! Out of ALL of the BJJ academies in San Diego it's AMAZING how you picked them out! . I'm not going to drag people's names into this but when Atos decided to have a fight house and then all of a sudden three purple belt IBJJF medalists from Ribeiro's, Gracie Barra Del Mar, and Alliance NYC join the team--well you can put the pieces together. I was told by someone close to one of the recruits that they were offered a job with a certain high-level black belt and an opportunity to train their full-time at no cost. For another recruit, things didn't work out and, from what I hear, he was not as warmly received from his original academy.

Ok, so it's clear you don't really know much of the stories at all. I know people that were training at Saulo's - guys that were DIE HARD Saulo guys. Suffice it to say, they moved to Atos for many reasons and not because they were 'poached.'

I don't know why you defend lloyd, but criticize atos. Especially when you have very little actual information about what happened.

 

[anaconda]

As I've mentioned in an earlier post: the fact that the only charges available were First Degree Rape or Not Guily makes me raise an eyebrow. That either shows that the prosecutor was a complete MORON for not adding additional lesser charges (possible) or something about the evidence and the testimony admitted in the court room was not effectively relayed in the newspaper articles (most likely). IIRC one juror wanted to give him the rape charge but the others didnt. What swayed the super-majority is assumed to be the flaccid dick argument. In the absence of further information the only fair thing to say is "I don't know" and let the court's ruling stand. Instead, the internet wants to play People's Court and render their own verdict.



The fact that Anaconda identified Atos immediately out of the dozens of other schools in San Diego at the mere hint of "poaching" shows that he knew how they get down. Late last year I saw a certain high caliber brown belt from Texas working and training at the Mendes Bros academy. From what I see, he seems to be back in Texas but for a time he was competing under Atos after having trained in Texas up until the Mendes Bros came to the OC.

As far as Lloyd trying to poaching your teammate, are you sure Lloyd came up to him first? I found it odd that Maldonado was training in Camp Springs less than a month after Keenan beat him at the Worlds so that lead me to believe that he sought out the team and not the other way around.

It wasn't hard to guess which team has grown lately with some high level lower belt competitors (lol what a weird sentence).

But you forgive Lloyd for his actions, but somehow Atos is evil for taking purple belts? Pretty hypocritical.