best wrestlers (in the world) are gonna get beat in Future UFC/MMA WRESTLING IS NOT BEST MMA BASE

[Lint]

you can't blame the UFC for jealously watching the revenue flow in from fake wrestling and try to copy cat that format as best they can with the smack talk at all that pure garbage

what they're really hunting for now is a "crossover" stars like that bum Greg Hardy they keep feeding tomato cans to

You can literally see Dana whites face contort while he's trying to hold back the smirk when he describes Greg Hardees fighting skills lol

that guys a bum pushed hard for crossover cash like Brock Lesnar except with a whole lot less skill

I'm not blaming, it's the other way around: Dana is doing what I would do in his place.

UFC is only what we know as because Dana bought when it was about to go bankrupt (yet more legit yadda), changed the rules to be more palatable to U.S. and now he has half a dozen Ferraris on his garage plus a long list of young women to do even though he's a bald, chubby, upper 40s pale man.

This whole debate over is wrestling good or not is moot, it really doesn't matter, if US first & foremost martial art was aikido be sure we'd find a way to make it the most useful in MMA, just look where are all other organizations that never emphasized wrestling now..

You're right as well, Dana needs to hype fighters, that's also a good method to keep UFC on under the spotlight.

 

[cooks1]

its pretty simple actually

it's the same reason that no other grappling based combat sports dominate the UFC and folkstyle wrestling does...

Remember... im a veteran folkstyle coach,

Shooto is a wildly Superior style for MMA however its handled like a martial art not a state sponsored combat sport...like folkstyle wrestling

Its explained well in this very intelligent thread....

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-real-reason-wrestlers-dominate-the-ufc-american-mma.3959991/

Meh. You might want to look to sources other than yourself for evaluating your intelligence.

Your assertions are complete rubbish from the very beginning. Folkstyle wrestling is not handled like a state sponsored combat sport. That is a laughable notion. Folkstyle wrestling is a fringe sport in the US. And someone who has been coaching it as long as you claim to should bloody well know that. There are maybe 250,000 HS wrestlers in the US and another 250K younger kids at various stages in youth programs. Compare that to 5 million kids playing football, 4 million playing soccer, 4 million playing basketball, and 3 million playing baseball. It's barely on the fucking radar.

The number of kids wrestling in the US is fairly comparable to the number of kids in BJJ in Brazil or MT in Thailand, and is probably less than the number of kids taking combat Sambo in Russia. The bottom line is that it just translates better as a core discipline.

 

[-guerilla-]

I'm not blaming, it's the other way around: Dana is doing what I would do in his place.

UFC is only what we know as because Dana bought when it was about to go bankrupt (yet more legit yadda), changed the rules to be more palatable to U.S. and now he has half a dozen Ferraris on his garage plus a long list of young women to do even though he's a bald, chubby, upper 40s pale man.

This whole debate over is wrestling good or not is moot, it really doesn't matter, if US first & foremost martial art was aikido be sure we'd find a way to make it the most useful in MMA, just look where are all other organizations that never emphasized wrestling now..

You're right as well, Dana needs to hype fighters, that's also a good method to keep UFC on under the spotlight.

Dana White didn't make any intelligent moves he was just right time right place

NHB was illegal on cable and getting beat down by the big boxing concerns (budweiser) because they knew it would take the biggest bite out of boxing pay-per-view revenues and not fake wrestling

once NHB made it over that Horizon it was clear sailing from then on out

Dana simply was lucky enough to arrive with his money and partners just as the bandwagon was revving up

The State athletic commissions had to be "convinced" (or bribed) on the sport and realize that it wasn't going to leave a trail of dead bodies in the ring

Dana was just a guy that had money and connections and was lucky enough to have it just at the best time in UFC history

His business partners had the connections to usurp John mcains Budweiser money who was trying to hold it down

Mcains wife was the real troublemaker and her budweiser fortune was the sports main opponant...

"Upon her father's death in 2000, she inherited majority control and became chair of Hensley & Co., one of the largest Anheuser-Busch beer distributors in the United States"

"The violent nature of the burgeoning sport quickly drew the attention of the U.S. authorities.[28]

In 1996, Senator John McCain (R-AZ) saw a tape of the first UFC events and immediately found it abhorrent. McCain himself led a campaign to ban UFC, calling it "human cockfighting", even sending letters to the governors of all fifty US states asking them to ban the event.[29]

Thirty-six states enacted laws that banned "no-hold-barred" fighting, including New York, which enacted the ban on the eve of UFC 12, forcing a relocation of the event to Dothan, Alabama.[30] The UFC continued to air on DirecTV PPV, though its audience remained minuscule compared to the larger cable pay-per-view platforms of the era"

"After the long battle to secure sanctioning, SEG stood on the brink of bankruptcy, when Station Casinos executives Frank and Lorenzo Fertitta and their business partner Dana Whiteapproached them in 2000, with an offer to purchase the UFC. A month later, in January 2001, the Fertittas bought the UFC for $2 million and created Zuffa, LLC as the parent entity controlling the UFC.

"I had my attorneys tell me that I was crazy because I wasn't buying anything. I was paying $2 million and they were saying 'What are you getting?'" Lorenzo Fertitta revealed to Fighter's Only magazine, recalling the lack of assets he acquired in the purchase. "And I said 'What you don't understand is I'm getting the most valuable thing that I could possibly have, which is those three letters: UFC. That is what's going to make this thing work. Everybody knows that brand, whether they like it or they don't like it, they react to it.'"[34]

With ties to the Nevada State Athletic Commission (Lorenzo Fertitta was a former member of the NSAC), Zuffa secured sanctioning in Nevada in 2001. Shortly thereafter, the UFC returned to pay-per-view cable television with UFC 33 featuring three championship bouts"

"McCain may have been influenced a great deal by those in boxing; his wife, Cindy, had inherited one of the biggest Budweiser distributorships in the country from her father, Jim Hensley, and Budweiser had a long-time relationship with boxing, where it had pumped a lot of money into sponsoring the sport. Then there were the numerous gratuities McCain had taken from boxing promoters. Whatever the motivation, he already had an agenda laid out, and that agenda was to bust up the sport of mixed martial arts any way he possibly could"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cindy_McCain

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Fighting_Championship

https://www.boxinginsider.com/mma/john-mccain-enter-the-opportunist-sports-biggest-enemy/

 

[SuperNerd]

Japan has done better than the States at wrestling in the Olympics since at least 04. US is not that great at it.

The suggestion "UFC is promoting wrestling to promote successful Americans" doesn't really add up.

 

[-guerilla-]

Meh. You might want to look to sources other than yourself for evaluating your intelligence.

Your assertions are complete rubbish from the very beginning. Folkstyle wrestling is not handled like a state sponsored combat sport. That is a laughable notion. Folkstyle wrestling is a fringe sport in the US. And someone who has been coaching it as long as you claim to should bloody well know that. There are maybe 250,000 HS wrestlers in the US and another 250K younger kids at various stages in youth programs. Compare that to 5 million kids playing football, 4 million playing soccer, 4 million playing basketball, and 3 million playing baseball. It's barely on the fucking radar.

The number of kids wrestling in the US is fairly comparable to the number of kids in BJJ in Brazil or MT in Thailand, and is probably less than the number of kids taking combat Sambo in Russia. The bottom line is that it just translates better as a core discipline.

LOL,

(SCHOOL BELL RINGS)

The fact is folkstyle wrestling is the only combat sport available in the public school system

The public school system is state funded

Folkstyle Wrestling is a state funded combat support

This enables poor tough young men to get involved with virtually no Financial outlay

Do some research on your favorite UFC fighters and you'll find out that the vast majority of them received their primary combat skills training in the public school system under state sponserd folkstyle wrestling

Also martial arts gyms are private for-profit busines entities that have to worry about liability, making the rent and all the other basic costs that go into operating a for-profit business

If shooto was available for free at your local public STATE FUNDED school
(in addition to folkstyle wrestling) it would DOMINATE the UFC
(because it's a better base for MMA than wrestling)

The Soviet Union dominated Olympic sports for quite a while because they had state-funded programs...

Remember them?

Get your learn on!

(SCHOOL BELL RINGS)

 

[-guerilla-]

Japan has done better than the States at wrestling in the Olympics since at least 04. US is not that great at it.

The suggestion "UFC is promoting wrestling to promote successful Americans" doesn't really add up.

Yes japan beats the USA per capita in wrestling because they dont waste time with Folkstyle and have good state sponserd programs just like the way they handle Judo

I have stated this fact many times b4 in all my wrestling/grappling threads

Do you think the UFC promoters would prefer a chute box guy or a Muslim wrestler to win the championship or Brock Lesnar?

The UFC wants to have the same storylines that fake wrestling has

They want AMERICANS to win AMERICA'S largest MMA tournament and all they have to work with is folkstyle wrestlers (who routinely get beat by International wrestlers)
Yet we have virtually no international wrestlers in the UFC
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...restlers-in-the-ufc-past-and-present.3969399/

Whos gonna sell more swag in the ghettos and trailer parks?

Brock lesnar and greg hardy

Or zabit and khabib?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Iron_Sheik

 

[SuperNerd]

Do you think the UFC promoters would prefer a chute box guy or a Muslim wrestler to win the championship or Brock Lesnar?

This the point?

Yes UFC is going to promote to the richer fanbase that pays the most and watches.

I don't see how this as any relevance to "best base for mma".

You're predicting some American wrestlers will lose in the future? I don't doubt that.

 

[SandaKicker]

You make a good point.

Until recently you have guys like Yoel and Cormier making the transition at 30.

As the sport evolves I’d expect the typical cut off to be more like 25.

 

[Lint]

Dana White didn't make any intelligent moves he was just right time right place

NHB was illegal on cable and getting beat down by the big boxing concerns (budweiser) because they knew it would take the biggest bite out of boxing pay-per-view revenues and not fake wrestling

once NHB made it over that Horizon it was clear sailing from then on out

Dana simply was lucky enough to arrive with his money and partners just as the bandwagon was revving up

The State athletic commissions had to be "convinced" (or bribed) on the sport and realize that it wasn't going to leave a trail of dead bodies in the ring

Dana was just a guy that had money and connections and was lucky enough to have it just at the best time in UFC history

His business partners had the connections to usurp John mcains Budweiser money who was trying to hold it down

Mcains wife was the real troublemaker and her budweiser fortune was the sports main opponant...

"Upon her father's death in 2000, she inherited majority control and became chair of Hensley & Co., one of the largest Anheuser-Busch beer distributors in the United States"

"The violent nature of the burgeoning sport quickly drew the attention of the U.S. authorities.[28]

In 1996, Senator John McCain (R-AZ) saw a tape of the first UFC events and immediately found it abhorrent. McCain himself led a campaign to ban UFC, calling it "human cockfighting", even sending letters to the governors of all fifty US states asking them to ban the event.[29]

Thirty-six states enacted laws that banned "no-hold-barred" fighting, including New York, which enacted the ban on the eve of UFC 12, forcing a relocation of the event to Dothan, Alabama.[30] The UFC continued to air on DirecTV PPV, though its audience remained minuscule compared to the larger cable pay-per-view platforms of the era"

"After the long battle to secure sanctioning, SEG stood on the brink of bankruptcy, when Station Casinos executives Frank and Lorenzo Fertitta and their business partner Dana Whiteapproached them in 2000, with an offer to purchase the UFC. A month later, in January 2001, the Fertittas bought the UFC for $2 million and created Zuffa, LLC as the parent entity controlling the UFC.

"I had my attorneys tell me that I was crazy because I wasn't buying anything. I was paying $2 million and they were saying 'What are you getting?'" Lorenzo Fertitta revealed to Fighter's Only magazine, recalling the lack of assets he acquired in the purchase. "And I said 'What you don't understand is I'm getting the most valuable thing that I could possibly have, which is those three letters: UFC. That is what's going to make this thing work. Everybody knows that brand, whether they like it or they don't like it, they react to it.'"[34]

With ties to the Nevada State Athletic Commission (Lorenzo Fertitta was a former member of the NSAC), Zuffa secured sanctioning in Nevada in 2001. Shortly thereafter, the UFC returned to pay-per-view cable television with UFC 33 featuring three championship bouts"

"McCain may have been influenced a great deal by those in boxing; his wife, Cindy, had inherited one of the biggest Budweiser distributorships in the country from her father, Jim Hensley, and Budweiser had a long-time relationship with boxing, where it had pumped a lot of money into sponsoring the sport. Then there were the numerous gratuities McCain had taken from boxing promoters. Whatever the motivation, he already had an agenda laid out, and that agenda was to bust up the sport of mixed martial arts any way he possibly could"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cindy_McCain

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Fighting_Championship

https://www.boxinginsider.com/mma/john-mccain-enter-the-opportunist-sports-biggest-enemy/

Nice post, but let me keep it simple: It ended a little weird, at first you say that Dana was just the right guy at the right time (a less fortunate version of Bill Gates, if I may), which I'd agree in all cases of someone not rich becoming filthy rich, but then proceeded to explain a lot of the scenario back in the 90s... That's exactly what Dana did, he played the game and won. That's not an easy play, lots of people who have lead UFC bankrupt, everybody is either rich or trying to get so.

So, I agree with you that there was a lot of lobbying to break the surface tension of the water, and probably he also pulled 10 others stunts we are overlooking/unaware of. Making wrestling MMA-compatible was one of them, likely the biggest one directly tied to the sport.
He not only made wrestling more viable, they also created the unified MMA rules, so one rule at a time UFC stopped being a wild-west fighting championship and became this mom & pop's approved fighting championship that can host both good ole conservative republicans that only accept wood rifles and generation snowflake democrats that this guy/girl would vote for.

Tl;dr- You're right, tho I never meant making wrestling mma-compatible was the only smart thing Dana ever made, just that UFC+wrestling is worth way more than UFC-free-for-any-martial-art. Nobody in UFC cares who's the best fighter, they need McGregors and GSPs..

 

[-guerilla-]

This the point?

Yes UFC is going to promote to the richer fanbase that pays the most and watches.

I don't see how this as any relevance to "best base for mma".

You're predicting some American wrestlers will lose in the future? I don't doubt that.

I was crucified on MMA forms decades ago for predicting BJJs eventual Decline in relevance and now I'm doing it for folkstyle Wrestling

 

[cooks1]

LOL,

(SCHOOL BELL RINGS)

The fact is folkstyle wrestling is the only combat sport available in the public school system

The public school system is state funded

Folkstyle Wrestling is a state funded combat support

This enables poor tough young men to get involved with virtually no Financial outlay

Do some research on your favorite UFC fighters and you'll find out that the vast majority of them received their primary combat skills training in the public school system under state sponserd folkstyle wrestling

Also martial arts gyms are private for-profit busines entities that have to worry about liability, making the rent and all the other basic costs that go into operating a for-profit business

If shooto was available for free at your local public STATE FUNDED school
(in addition to folkstyle wrestling) it would DOMINATE the UFC
(because it's a better base for MMA than wrestling)

The Soviet Union dominated Olympic sports for quite a while because they had state-funded programs...

Remember them?

Get your learn on!

(SCHOOL BELL RINGS)

Sigh........Once again completely incorrect rubbish on your part. I am beginning think your claims of involvement in wrestling for so long might be greatly exaggerated. No one as deeply involved with the sport as you claim to be can be this wrong.

High School wrestling is state funded. Just like you could call HS basketball, baseball and Football state funded. You might even be able to find some JR High schools with wrestling teams. Or the occasional private middle school. But the vast majority of the top wrestlers did not learn to wrestle in high school any more than the top baseball players and basketball players learned to play basketball there.

No. They learned in non state sponsored 'for pay' clubs, orgs, and gyms as kids. They are often called 'feeder programs' Ben Askren is a perfect example. He grew up wrestling in those kinds of non-state sponsored youth programs. Now he has one of his own.

https://awawisconsin.com/

If you knew any of the top wrestlers in country personally, you would know most of them were pretty damn good wrestlers loooooooonnnng before they got to HS. Hell, a lot of the guys you see in the NCAA finals wrestling each other have been seeing each other and even wrestling each other in tournaments since they were 9 or 10 years old.

 

[-guerilla-]

Nice post, but let me keep it simple: It ended a little weird, at first you say that Dana was just the right guy at the right time (a less fortunate version of Bill Gates, if I may), which I'd agree in all cases of someone not rich becoming filthy rich, but then proceeded to explain a lot of the scenario back in the 90s... That's exactly what Dana did, he played the game and won. That's not an easy play, lots of people who have lead UFC bankrupt, everybody is either rich or trying to get so.

So, I agree with you that there was a lot of lobbying to break the surface tension of the water, and probably he also pulled 10 others stunts we are overlooking/unaware of. Making wrestling MMA-compatible was one of them, likely the biggest one directly tied to the sport.
He not only made wrestling more viable, they also created the unified MMA rules, so one rule at a time UFC stopped being a wild-west fighting championship and became this mom & pop's approved fighting championship that can host both good ole conservative republicans that only accept wood rifles and generation snowflake democrats that this guy/girl would vote for.

Tl;dr- You're right, tho I never meant making wrestling mma-compatible was the only smart thing Dana ever made, just that UFC+wrestling is worth way more than UFC-free-for-any-martial-art. Nobody in UFC cares who's the best fighter, they need McGregors and GSPs..

Dana diddent know much about MMA back then and doesn't care much about MMA now

he is a promoter and promoters have an agenda

Let's take my experience for example my gym what is a kickboxing Club that was converted to MMA the day after the UFC aired

we were treated terribly bye everyone in our periphery because we Supply Fighters to the new and burgeoning No Holds Barred sport

We left our Blood Sweat and Tears on the mat and lost jobs relationships and career opportunities because of our involvement with this new horrible Bloodsport everybody was so disgusted by however they would buy the pay-per-views to watch the Carnage unfold

Are Blood Sweat and Tears literally lubricated the gears of the sport and kept it on life support through the dark days of the cable ppv ban

The big Budweiser money stepped in and stopped the pay-per-view revenues from flowing in and that's what almost destroyed the sport for good

Dana was just lucky enough to have the connections to grease the athletic commissions and get the sport back on Cable pay-per-view

This reminds me of an old farming parable....

The people born on the Farm work everyday and enjoy the Harvest once a year

The Harvest is the Bounty from all the hard work dedication and sacrifice

Every now and then a lazy but intelligent person takes off from the farm and heads to the city in order to make their Fortune however they always show back up on the farm right before the Harvest because they are hoping that they can gain from their past Association with the farm

The old grandpa is smart enough to see through this recently arrived relative who happened to show up right before the big Harvest

Dana simply showed up right before the Harvest and made out like a bandit even though other people had done the primary heavy lifting

Dana was lucky enough and had the cash and connections to be at the right place and the right time

Dana is a smart businessman ineffective promoter and he has a investment in American wrestlers winning the UFC tournament

it is a very simple suggestion that Americans like American champions

Nobody in the history of competitive Sports would disagree with this statement

Dana knows that because he's not a moron

He's a smart and lucky businessman

 

[-guerilla-]

Sigh........Once again completely incorrect rubbish on your part. I am beginning think your claims of involvement in wrestling for so long might be greatly exaggerated. No one as deeply involved with the sport as you claim to be can be this wrong.

High School wrestling is state funded. Just like you could call HS basketball, baseball and Football state funded. You might even be able to find some JR High schools with wrestling teams. Or the occasional private middle school. But the vast majority of the top wrestlers did not learn to wrestle in high school any more than the top baseball players and basketball players learned to play basketball there.

No. They learned in non state sponsored 'for pay' clubs, orgs, and gyms as kids. They are often called 'feeder programs' Ben Askren is a perfect example. He grew up wrestling in those kinds of non-state sponsored youth programs. Now he has one of his own.

https://awawisconsin.com/

If you knew any of the top wrestlers in country personally, you would know most of them were pretty damn good wrestlers loooooooonnnng before they got to HS. Hell, a lot of the guys you see in the NCAA finals wrestling each other have been seeing each other and even wrestling each other in tournaments since they were 9 or 10 years old.

[SCHOOL BELL RINGS]

The majority of modern UFC champions learned their skills under STATE FUNDED highschool and college wrestling programs

high school is where boys become men...

this is the time where these athletes learn the most and settle into their adult frame...

I have been converting folkstyle wrestlers from the public highschools where i coached to MMA for 25 years...

Ben Askern
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrowhead_High_School

jon jones
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union-Endicott_High_School

dan cormier
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northside_High_School_(Lafayette,_Louisiana)

Henry Cjudo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryvale_High_School_(Phoenix,_Arizona)

state sponsorship WORKS!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_at_the_Olympics

[SCHOOL BELL RINGS]

 

[cooks1]

[SCHOOL BELL RINGS]

The majority of modern UFC champions learned their skills under STATE FUNDED highschool and college wrestling programs

high school is where boys become men...

this is the time where these athletes learn the most and settle into their adult frame...

I have been converting folkstyle wrestlers from the public highschools where i coached to MMA for 25 years...

Ben Askern
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrowhead_High_School

jon jones
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union-Endicott_High_School

dan cormier
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northside_High_School_(Lafayette,_Louisiana)

Henry Cjudo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryvale_High_School_(Phoenix,_Arizona)

state sponsorship WORKS!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_at_the_Olympics

[SCHOOL BELL RINGS]

With the exception of Jones, whose early wrestling I do not really know much about, all of these people support my argument, not yours. Askren, Cormier, and Cejudo all became accomplished wrestlers through non state sponsored youth programs before they ever got to high school. I think if you devote more than a quick google search into the top MMA wrestlers, as well as the top collegiate wrestlers and Olympians, you will find that the truly elite wrestler who actually learned to wrestle through state sponsored resources is the exception rather than the rule. Most learned through non-state sponsored clubs and youth programs. Which is not to say the state sponsored schools and programs do not play a role. But they are not why wrestling is a better base for MMA.

 

[-guerilla-]

With the exception of Jones, whose early wrestling I do not really know much about, all of these people support my argument, not yours. Askren, Cormier, and Cejudo all became accomplished wrestlers through non state sponsored youth programs before they ever got to high school. I think if you devote more than a quick google search into the top MMA wrestlers, as well as the top collegiate wrestlers and Olympians, you will find that the truly elite wrestler who actually learned to wrestle through state sponsored resources is the exception rather than the rule. Most learned through non-state sponsored clubs and youth programs. Which is not to say the state sponsored schools and programs do not play a role. But they are not why wrestling is a better base for MMA.

Do you really mean to suggest that these athletes developed the majority of their skills as children and not throughout their high school and Collegiate careers?

This Thread is really about over specialising and the continued evolution of the MMA game

The fallacy that wrestling is the best base for MMA is instantly discredited in that the best wrestlers don't do that well in MMA

By that logic Alireza heydari could come in and wipe the MMA mat with Daniel Cormier because he has literally wiped the mat with Daniel Cormier in the sport of wrestling which if it were the best base for MMA would immediately translate into the greatest wrestlers winning all the greatest MMA purses

which they don't

Remember there's absolutely no money whatsoever in wrestling... there's a ton of money in MMA

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alireza_Heidari

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-real-reason-wrestlers-dominate-the-ufc-american-mma.3959991/

 

[BeforeSunrise]

The sport is evolving

UFC and other American mma promotions are doing everything in their power to advantage the American wrestler because they want "all american champs" so they can sell swag to the fake wrestling NASCAR fanboys [smart business]

Wrestlers have lots of terrible habits that leave them vulnerable to good knee artists and the best submission guys

the most accomplished wrestlers are NEVER gonna be that good in mma and just get "fluffed" up for the slack jawed fanboys

These athletes have spent so many years learning to perfect their "sport grappling" they are ultra specialists

[just like SPORT BJJ guys]

profit minded gym owners push the fallacy that training in 5 different martial arts / sports = the ultimate mix for MMA

The fact IS specialists are getting pushed out of MMA

Wrestlers days are numbered

Just like the BJJ days of yore...lol

wonder when we will actually have MMA training in the USA

NOT

Muay thai + BJJ + wrestling = MMA

there are a lot of wrestlers who are simply holding on the the underbelly of MMA as their sport is slowly absorbed

desperately clinging on to MMA for relavance

the bad news is....

the ride is gonna get tougher!!!

Some arts are better than others but the main 3-4 are all good enough that it depends on the anatomy, frame, mental aptitude, and personality of the individual fighter, so none of these arts are better. Also soemthign to be said for begn differnent to what most of your opponants previous opponents are like.

Also gravity >>>>>> most peoples oneshot punch.

 

[-guerilla-]

Some arts are better than others but the main 3-4 are all good enough that it depends on the anatomy, frame, mental aptitude, and personality of the individual fighter, so none of these arts are better. Also soemthign to be said for begn differnent to what most of your opponants previous opponents are like.

Also gravity >>>>>> most peoples oneshot punch.

yeah i feel ya but i have people literally arguing that wrestling is a better base for mma than shooto and pankration

thats literally saying that wrestling is a better base for mma than mma ITSELF!! LOL

I completely understand the fallacy because Its what they see winning over and over and in the ufc world that is the whole world for the casual fanboy

its not the STYLE but HOW its handled that makes wrestling so effective in american MMA

 

[TallGHunter]

The sport is evolving

UFC and other American mma promotions are doing everything in their power to advantage the American wrestler because they want "all american champs" so they can sell swag to the fake wrestling NASCAR fanboys [smart business]

Wrestlers have lots of terrible habits that leave them vulnerable to good knee artists and the best submission guys

the most accomplished wrestlers are NEVER gonna be that good in mma and just get "fluffed" up for the slack jawed fanboys

These athletes have spent so many years learning to perfect their "sport grappling" they are ultra specialists

[just like SPORT BJJ guys]

profit minded gym owners push the fallacy that training in 5 different martial arts / sports = the ultimate mix for MMA

The fact IS specialists are getting pushed out of MMA

Wrestlers days are numbered

Just like the BJJ days of yore...lol

wonder when we will actually have MMA training in the USA

NOT

Muay thai + BJJ + wrestling = MMA

there are a lot of wrestlers who are simply holding on the the underbelly of MMA as their sport is slowly absorbed

desperately clinging on to MMA for relavance

the bad news is....

the ride is gonna get tougher!!!

Sounds more like you get owned on the mats. And yeah, now that the knee has been invented wrestling is done... Yeah.... that's the story

 

[Based and White Pilled]

Specialists are still winning. Adesanya is a recent example. Jack of all trades has been around forever and they often lose to specialists. It really comes down to the fighter.

This x1000

People have been talking about the "new breed" of well rounded fighter since AT LEAST 2006 when I started watching. It really comes down to the individuals and their ability to implement their games effectively. Specialists who learn to avoid the rest of the game sufficiently have always been and probably will always be effective.

 

[cooks1]

Do you really mean to suggest that these athletes developed the majority of their skills as children and not throughout their high school and Collegiate careers?

This Thread is really about over specialising and the continued evolution of the MMA game

The fallacy that wrestling is the best base for MMA is instantly discredited in that the best wrestlers don't do that well in MMA

By that logic Alireza heydari could come in and wipe the MMA mat with Daniel Cormier because he has literally wiped the mat with Daniel Cormier in the sport of wrestling which if it were the best base for MMA would immediately translate into the greatest wrestlers winning all the greatest MMA purses

which they don't

Remember there's absolutely no money whatsoever in wrestling... there's a ton of money in MMA

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alireza_Heidari

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-real-reason-wrestlers-dominate-the-ufc-american-mma.3959991/

You crack me up, you really do. You are trying to submit your opinions in previous threads as fact. You brag about your bold predictions in the early days of MMA, providing no evidence of said predictions, from an account that is less than a year old.

The non state sponsored childhood and youth programs separate the wheat from chaff for the most part. The same thing happens again in HS. It's normal, and it is the same as most other sports, whether there is money in them at the professional level or not. You think HS State champion swimmers learned swimming in HS too?

Your logic regarding wrestling as a base for MMA is also bass ackwards. You do not need the best wrestlers to do well in MMA to show wrestling to be the best base. What you need is a disproportionate % of the champions and elite fighters in MMA to have their base in wrestling compared to other disciplines, or from leaning all the aspects at once. And that is precisely what you have.

Are there other things besides the solid foundation wrestling provides that make it the best base for MMA? Perhaps. One might make the argument that a cage would benefit a wrestler over a stand-up fighter compared to a ring. But the cage idea was not developed to benefit wrestlers. And anyone who would suggest that is completely full of shit, and nothing else they say should be taken seriously. The cage preference came from the Gracies, with the intent to benefit BJJ practitioners. Rorian Gracie and Art Davie put on UFC 1. Wrestlers just adapted to it better, because wrestling is a better base.

Some idiots think the addition of rounds benefits wrestlers. That is also horseshit. If there were no rounds, a lot of fighters would get taken down once and never get up. Rounds give people most proficient in punches and kicks more opportunity.

The only way to prove that wrestling is not the best base for MMA is for a disproportionate % of MMA's champions and top fighters to come from disciplines other than wrestling. When that happens, you will be right. Until that happens, you are wrong.